Why Not

CUDA · Post by **CUDA** » Wed Jul 01, 2015 12:09 pm

The latest victim of the growing controversy over the Confederate flag is the 1980s TV series “The Dukes of Hazzard.”

A TV Land spokesperson confirmed Tuesday that the network has pulled reruns of the series from its schedule, which had been airing twice a day.

The network declined to comment on why the episodes were removed, but the southern-set show has come under fire recently for its depiction of the Confederate flag, which is emblazoned on the hood of the Duke Boys’ signature 1969 orange Dodge Charger.

Warner Bros., which owns “The Dukes of Hazzard,” last week halted production on toy replicas of the car dubbed the General Lee. That followed moves by other retailers such as Walmart and eBay to stop selling items bearing the Stars and Bars after the deadly church shooting in Charleston, SC, in June.

There are already calls for a Ban on Gone with the Wind because it has a Confederate flag in it.(kind of hard to make a movie about the confederate south without one)
I'm Sure Civil war re-enactments are soon to follow
and Some people are saying we should Ban the American flag because it represents Oppression and institutional racism

Maybe we should tear down the Great Pyramids. after all they ARE a symbol of slavery and oppression and institutional racism.

callmeslick · Post by **callmeslick** » Wed Jul 01, 2015 1:14 pm

commented on this on a friends FB post about it: From the point of view of a Southerner, at the time, the Dukes were an abomination. Sort of the worst sort of Hollywood pastiche of Southerners and the South. That said, pulling the show over the flag on a car is sort of silly. As for selling crap with the flag on it, that can stop anytime, as far as I'm concerned, but if folks wish to buy and display such stuff, it makes it that much easier to spot the idiots(sort of akin to the assclowns posting 'No Service for Gay people' in store windows). When it comes to historical re-enactments and other period displays(or the Great Pyramids), it seems to me that those are THE appropriate places for such symbols.

Spidey · Post by **Spidey** » Wed Jul 01, 2015 1:38 pm

I knew some people would get around to the American Flag…

As for the Dukes…I’m pretty sure they use it in that context as a symbol of rebellion, not racism, but hey, no stopping a great feel good moment.

Tunnelcat · Post by **Tunnelcat** » Wed Jul 01, 2015 2:07 pm

It's gone a little too far when the Confederate flag is taken out of historical games,movies and books. Scrubbing history of any offensive historical images or references is no way to treat or respect our country's checkered past. It needs to be remembered so it won't happen again.

As for the Dukes, I'm sure a few Southerners would say good riddance to that really bad tasteless California TV idealism of what Southerners are like. By the way, the writers of that story got it wrong. The Confederate flag was on the roof of the General Lee, not the hood.

snoopy · Post by **snoopy** » Wed Jul 01, 2015 9:16 pm

As far as I'm concerned: I'd be happy if the Confederate flag stuck around in exactly the same way that the Nazi flag is still around... As a symbol of the atrocities that hateful people are capable of.

That may be insensitive to the nuances of the history of the flag, but that's how I feel about it.

woodchip · Post by **woodchip** » Thu Jul 02, 2015 4:54 am

With all the furor over the flag anf things representing racism, I wonder why we hear nothing of removing Sen. Byrds name from things like the Robert C. Byrd Highway in Virginia?

Tunnelcat · Post by **Tunnelcat** » Thu Jul 02, 2015 3:02 pm

Oh, it's been discussed. The Emanuel AME Church where the shooting took place is located on a street named after Calhoun. Most of the roads down South are named after revered Confederate heroes and slave owners. It would garner yet another Civil War to even TRY to change the names. Look at it this way, at least that church is essentially flipping the bird at old Calhoun by it's very location, in effect.

callmeslick · Post by **callmeslick** » Thu Jul 02, 2015 3:08 pm

every male in my family was given a Confederate general's name between their given name and family surname. That tradition is over as I didn't have a son, but that is just how it was done in a lot of Southern families for a few generations. That war was a bitter pill for the South, but it should be past everyone at this stage, and need not have emblems waved in anyone's faces.

Tunnelcat · Post by **Tunnelcat** » Sat Jul 04, 2015 3:09 pm

Sacrilege or the proper thing to do?

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/golf-devi ... -golf.html

woodchip · Post by **woodchip** » Sat Jul 04, 2015 3:28 pm

tunnelcat wrote:Sacrilege or the proper thing to do?

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/golf-devi ... -golf.html

The owner loves the car so much he will change the appearance of it just to salve the knee jerk responses others are making. What a moron. I guess the idea the flag is a symbol of independence from the federal govt. has escaped everyone.

Top Gun · Post by **Top Gun** » Sat Jul 04, 2015 3:52 pm

If by "independence" you mean "traitorous armed insurrection based on a desire for institutionalized slaver," then yes, that's exactly what it is!

Honestly, it's Bubba's car to do with what he wishes. I wouldn't have a problem if he left it alone, since that was its original TV appearance, but if he wants to just paint over it, more power to him.

Sergeant Thorne · Post by **Sergeant Thorne** » Sat Jul 04, 2015 4:01 pm

Things like this are just empty, token actions standing in the place of anyone having a real change of heart. I've never had anything to do with the confederate flag, but my impression is that it means so many different things to so many different people, that IMO making it officially taboo for a single reason is nonsense. Now if people who flew the confederate flag no longer wanted to fly it for a reason of some actual substance, I could respect that. This is so much meaningless bull★■◆●. Just people trying to maneuver for the greatest approval.

Ferno · Post by **Ferno** » Sat Jul 04, 2015 5:32 pm

Here's what gets me. Supporters say that it's an icon of southern pride, and it has heritage to them. Fair enough.

But which groups has been using it as their symbol lately? That's the issue southerners have to face now.

callmeslick · Post by **callmeslick** » Sat Jul 04, 2015 5:39 pm

Ferno wrote:Here's what gets me. Supporters say that it's an icon of southern pride, and it has heritage to them. Fair enough.

But which groups has been using it as their symbol lately? That's the issue southerners have to face now.

you might be surprised to hear how many of us have been saying that for two decades. It sucks that it took 9 people getting shot in an AME
church for more people to get introspective.

Tunnelcat · Post by **Tunnelcat** » Sat Jul 04, 2015 5:50 pm

The problem is, if people go too far too fast in trying to get rid of a hateful symbol like the Confederate Flag that's been around for a long time and well entrenched in Southern history, it may just make some people dig in their heels and fight to keep it out of principle mind you. This is one of those symbols that needs to be put into a back closet very slowly, so it will disappear into obscurity and be forgotten. However, personally I think Bubba painting over the flag on top of his General Lee is destroying an icon. It's his car though and the American Flag is the flag of our country, so it's his decision, stupid as that is.

Vander · Post by **Vander** » Sat Jul 04, 2015 6:20 pm

I sort of dismiss Amazon, Apple, Walmart, etc removing products with the flag as a cynical marketing ploy, as if they deserve a pat on the head for some belated good deed. They aren't censoring these products because they can be considered hateful, they're censoring them so we have warm happy thoughts when we think of these brand names. These brands will protect us from having to think about bad things.

woodchip · Post by **woodchip** » Sun Jul 05, 2015 4:58 am

Vander wrote:I sort of dismiss Amazon, Apple, Walmart, etc removing products with the flag as a cynical marketing ploy, as if they deserve a pat on the head for some belated good deed. They aren't censoring these products because they can be considered hateful, they're censoring them so we have warm happy thoughts when we think of these brand names. These brands will protect us from having to think about bad things.

I agree except Amazon still has not a problem selling Nazis SS flag:

CUDA · Post by **CUDA** » Sun Jul 05, 2015 6:42 am

tunnelcat wrote:The problem is, if people go too far too fast in trying to get rid of a hateful symbol like the Confederate Flag that's been around for a long time and well entrenched in Southern history, it may just make some people dig in their heels and fight to keep it out of principle mind you. This is one of those symbols that needs to be put into a back closet very slowly, so it will disappear into obscurity and be forgotten. However, personally I think Bubba painting over the flag on top of his General Lee is destroying an icon. It's his car though and the American Flag is the flag of our country, so it's his decision, stupid as that is.

I agree. The Dukes have been on TV for 36 years any there was little if any problems at all with its content, There was never any racist issues about the show or problems with displaying the flag until the PC crowd got their panties in a bunch climbed up on their high horse and told us there was.
whats happened in this country that we have lost the ability and the right to think for ourselves and to make our own choices?

callmeslick · Post by **callmeslick** » Sun Jul 05, 2015 6:58 am

tunnelcat wrote:The problem is, if people go too far too fast in trying to get rid of a hateful symbol like the Confederate Flag that's been around for a long time and well entrenched in Southern history, it may just make some people dig in their heels and fight to keep it out of principle mind you.

what 'principle', really? If you hang onto it, despite the blatant history of use for racist message since 1890, your principles are pretty lacking.

This is one of those symbols that needs to be put into a back closet very slowly, so it will disappear into obscurity and be forgotten. However, personally I think Bubba painting over the flag on top of his General Lee is destroying an icon. It's his car though and the American Flag is the flag of our country, so it's his decision, stupid as that is.

I don't much care if people wish to still sell stuff, want to keep watching Dukes, etc. I don't find anything impressive about global vendors stopping sales. I DO applaud thinking Southerners like Mr. Watson rethinking things. If we're supposed to wait and slowly put it away at any slower a rate than we already have been(20 years plus), I think that is just kowtowing to bigots and idiots.

Jeff250 · Post by **Jeff250** » Sun Jul 05, 2015 7:04 am

CUDA wrote:whats happened in this country that we have lost the ability and the right to think for ourselves and to make our own choices?

But people "making choices"--isn't that what happened here? The Confederate flag hasn't been legally banned. Businesses, rather, are reacting to a change in public perception regarding the flag.

CUDA · Post by **CUDA** » Sun Jul 05, 2015 7:32 am

Thats my point. The people didnt get to make that choice

callmeslick · Post by **callmeslick** » Sun Jul 05, 2015 7:45 am

CUDA wrote:Thats my point. The people didnt get to make that choice

sure they do and have. Why do you think those businesses are tripping over one another to 'look good'? It's a response to a bombardment of opinions by 'people', as in potential customers.

Jeff250 · Post by **Jeff250** » Sun Jul 05, 2015 8:30 am

Cuda, would you have been more satisfied if businesses had waited for boycotts to have been called for?

CUDA · Post by **CUDA** » Sun Jul 05, 2015 12:05 pm

Let the free market take care of it self. If people stop buying it. Stores will stop selling it.

and slick. No they didnt. It was a knee jerk reaction it an outrageous incident that really had nothing to do with it in the first place. Why wasnt there a ban called for all the "other" symbol the shooter had. If it really mattered they should pulled them ALL from circulation but they didn't. It was purely a PC move.

Ferno · Post by **Ferno** » Sun Jul 05, 2015 12:18 pm

Well if it's a PC move, maybe they should start selling pointed white hoods.

Spidey · Post by **Spidey** » Sun Jul 05, 2015 12:27 pm

No self respecting KKK member would ever buy their hood...

Jeff250 · Post by **Jeff250** » Sun Jul 05, 2015 12:50 pm

CUDA wrote:Let the free market take care of it self. If people stop buying it. Stores will stop selling it.

So in general are you against people holding boycotts? Or businesses responding to them?

Spidey · Post by **Spidey** » Sun Jul 05, 2015 12:59 pm

I am, but not because people don't have the right to boycott something, but they usually get in the way of other people’s right to choose.

It’s akin to mob rule.

Go ahead and boycott anything you want, but don’t force stores to take action by protesting outside, and threatening people. (yes, I have seen it)

woodchip · Post by **woodchip** » Sun Jul 05, 2015 3:17 pm

callmeslick wrote:
CUDA wrote:Thats my point. The people didnt get to make that choice
sure they do and have. Why do you think those businesses are tripping over one another to 'look good'? It's a response to a bombardment of opinions by 'people', as in potential customers.

Bombardment by a few people you mean.

callmeslick · Post by **callmeslick** » Sun Jul 05, 2015 3:27 pm

if it was a 'few' in ANY remote sense, you can bet a billion dollar-plus business wouldn't budge from an item that was selling well.

woodchip · Post by **woodchip** » Sun Jul 05, 2015 3:47 pm

The only ones bombarding anything are the news media and paid rabble-rousers. Certainly not by everyday citizens.

Tunnelcat · Post by **Tunnelcat** » Sun Jul 05, 2015 4:25 pm

callmeslick wrote:
tunnelcat wrote:The problem is, if people go too far too fast in trying to get rid of a hateful symbol like the Confederate Flag that's been around for a long time and well entrenched in Southern history, it may just make some people dig in their heels and fight to keep it out of principle mind you.
what 'principle', really? If you hang onto it, despite the blatant history of use for racist message since 1890, your principles are pretty lacking.

The Confederate Flag should have been burned and buried once the Civil War was over, period. The losers shouldn't have been allowed to keep their traitorous battle flag at all. Maybe they couldn't have rooted it out of Southern culture either, who knows? Racism was still very strong even back after the war and losing that war didn't change the loser's attitudes one bit. A lot of them were still a hateful racist bunch. But since it's been allowed to remain for all these years like a bloody sore in history, it's ingrained into Southern culture like festering scab. Remove it all of a sudden, and some people would feel the pain and take exception, like they already have, and I can guarantee you the backlash from the flag lovers would cancel out any attempts at getting rid of the thing permanently. It needs to be removed slowly, so that no one notices once it's eventually gone. A first start would to remove it from any state flags and capital grounds like it's some sanctioned flag. It never should have been allowed on any state flags (like Mississippi) or flown on any state grounds (like SC). Once that flag disappears from everyday view, it will slowly vanish through attrition and forgetfulness, like it should.

callmeslick wrote:
tunnelcat wrote:This is one of those symbols that needs to be put into a back closet very slowly, so it will disappear into obscurity and be forgotten. However, personally I think Bubba painting over the flag on top of his General Lee is destroying an icon. It's his car though and the American Flag is the flag of our country, so it's his decision, stupid as that is.
I don't much care if people wish to still sell stuff, want to keep watching Dukes, etc. I don't find anything impressive about global vendors stopping sales. I DO applaud thinking Southerners like Mr. Watson rethinking things. If we're supposed to wait and slowly put it away at any slower a rate than we already have been(20 years plus), I think that is just kowtowing to bigots and idiots.

Welp, what can I say. The car is just one of those stupid television icons about good ol' country boys that never reeked of racism, even if it did have the Confederate Flag emblazoned on it's top. Changing it to suit PC standards is kind of a knee jerk reaction, but it's up to Bubba if he thinks it's a racial hate symbol to be covered over. Maybe he doesn't want to have the car vandalized by someone? The car will still look nice, but it won't fit people's memories and maybe that's a good thing.

CUDA · Post by **CUDA** » Sun Jul 05, 2015 4:27 pm

Jeff250 wrote:
CUDA wrote:Let the free market take care of it self. If people stop buying it. Stores will stop selling it.
So in general are you against people holding boycotts? Or businesses responding to them?

Not at all.

but no one was boycotting any thing, and why haven't we had a call to ban smokey and the bandit. That car had a rebel flag on it. Or how about banning the mini coopers with the british flag since it was the british who introduced slavery to this country and sold 3.4 million of them during the slave trades.

callmeslick · Post by **callmeslick** » Sun Jul 05, 2015 4:34 pm

CUDA wrote:
Jeff250 wrote:
CUDA wrote:Let the free market take care of it self. If people stop buying it. Stores will stop selling it.
So in general are you against people holding boycotts? Or businesses responding to them?
Not at all.

but no one was boycotting any thing, and why haven't we had a call to ban smokey and the bandit. That car had a rebel flag on it. Or how about banning the mini coopers with the british flag since it was the british who introduced slavery to this country and sold 3.4 million of them during the slave trades.

goofy history aside there at the end, you make a valid point at the outset. I have seen the anti-flag movement, pretty close up, for a long time. I'm not aware of one person who targetted Dukes of Hazzard. Most of us found the show a pastiche of bad Southern stereotypes, but still, the whole flag on the car thing never was brought up, that I ever heard. Sometimes, businesses do things for reverse purposes, as in, "if we do this, we'll get positive notice from one or more groups we wish to expand our marketing to". Maybe that was in play here, but you'd have to ask the folks at TV Land.

Top Gun · Post by **Top Gun** » Sun Jul 05, 2015 4:51 pm

CUDA wrote:Let the free market take care of it self. If people stop buying it. Stores will stop selling it.

Last time I checked, a business deciding not to offer a particular product is the very DEFINITION of "free market."

Ferno · Post by **Ferno** » Sun Jul 05, 2015 4:53 pm

CUDA wrote:
Jeff250 wrote:
CUDA wrote:Let the free market take care of it self. If people stop buying it. Stores will stop selling it.
So in general are you against people holding boycotts? Or businesses responding to them?
Not at all.

but no one was boycotting any thing, and why haven't we had a call to ban smokey and the bandit. That car had a rebel flag on it. Or how about banning the mini coopers with the british flag since it was the british who introduced slavery to this country and sold 3.4 million of them during the slave trades.

was the union jack waved while a shooter was killing black people? Or was the firebird used to run down black people?

CUDA · Post by **CUDA** » Sun Jul 05, 2015 4:57 pm

SO WAIT!!!! he made his escape driving an Orange charger while watching gone with the wind on his tablet?

EPIC FAIL there ferno

woodchip · Post by **woodchip** » Sun Jul 05, 2015 5:28 pm

Ferno wrote:
CUDA wrote:
Jeff250 wrote:
CUDA wrote:Let the free market take care of it self. If people stop buying it. Stores will stop selling it.
So in general are you against people holding boycotts? Or businesses responding to them?
Not at all.

but no one was boycotting any thing, and why haven't we had a call to ban smokey and the bandit. That car had a rebel flag on it. Or how about banning the mini coopers with the british flag since it was the british who introduced slavery to this country and sold 3.4 million of them during the slave trades.
was the union jack waved while a shooter was killing black people? Or was the firebird used to run down black people?

Union Jack was not waved by the shooter. It was waved by liberal racists and anti-gun types.

vision · Post by **vision** » Sun Jul 05, 2015 5:38 pm

woodchip wrote:I agree except Amazon still has not a problem selling Nazis SS flag:

But you can't but the Nazi SS flag in Germany, which is contextually important:
http://www.amazon.de/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?_ ... fel+Flagge

CUDA · Post by **CUDA** » Sun Jul 05, 2015 5:45 pm

I just got done watching Glory on TV, probably will be called a racist for doing so :p