not normally in the habit of defending Jeb Bush

[callmeslick]

....but, have spent some time this morning doing so. He is getting absolutely savaged over his 'Americans need to work longer hours' comment yesterday. I kind of view it as that whole Bush family issue around articulating an idea. What he was clearly trying to say was that we have to
address underemployment of folks who WISH to work full time, but cannot find full-time work. This has been an issue for over a decade, now, made worse by the economic crash of the 2007-2009 timeframe. It has to be somewhat difficult to state the need the economy has for a return to full time
work for those who desire it, without kow-towing to the loons who wish to pin the blame on the ACA, or paint part-timers as lazy takers, or the like, as the primary base in the GOP likes to hear it. So, while attempting this difficult feat, Jeb stumbled on his words. I see no reason to savage him for that.

[Vander]

Meh, he'd be just as willing to savage an out of context or poorly worded statement for his own gain. They all would. And our discourse is vapid because of it.

[callmeslick]

you are, of course, likely correct, Vander. But, as you and I have discussed privately, unless people stand up and demand deeper discourse, these folks will keep on batting the drivel back and forth like it was a tennis match. I try to do that, and keep things real. I tried to do that here, last night, by making publicly readable the words in a link a member posted. By doing so, that member(echoed this morning by another) called me a troll. Pointing out the truth is now 'trolling'? Making people accountable for the words they post is being a 'troll'. Hell, long live trolls, in that case. The alternative is a continuation of sound-bite policy discussions, coupled with brutal vindictive and outright lies, and anyone should be able to see where THAT has gotten us.

[vision]

I"m telling you, it's gonna be Jeb in 2016. He's the most qualified in the GOP.

[callmeslick]

which, alone, will doom him in the primaries.

[Vander]

But, as you and I have discussed privately, unless people stand up and demand deeper discourse, these folks will keep on batting the drivel back and forth like it was a tennis match. I try to do that, and keep things real. I tried to do that here, last night, by making publicly readable the words in a link a member posted. By doing so, that member(echoed this morning by another) called me a troll.

I think you were a bit harsher than you're giving yourself credit for. That said, I think it's a bit silly that someone might disseminate the material that was linked and then storm off in a huff when called out. But I suppose I don't take this stuff as personally as some. I don't view attacks on my ideas and opinions as personal attacks. Perhaps it's because I generally believe my ideas and opinions are just what I've figured out so far, and I view things with a bit of detached spectating. Without having the definition of existence provided for me, I'm inclined to afford respect to an opposing perspective, even if I don't agree with it.

But yea, that Jeb Bush. Maybe if he wins we can get a third go 'round of 80's all stars like Elliott Abrams and John Negroponte.

[woodchip]

Yet we have 90 million workers who have been unemployed for so long that they are considered out of the work force. On the other hand we have 24 million workers who have stole their jobs. Disney land being a prime example:

"Instead, about 250 Disney employees were told in late October that they would be laid off. Many of their jobs were transferred to immigrants on temporary visas for highly skilled technical workers, who were brought in by an outsourcing firm based in India. Over the next three months, some Disney employees were required to train their replacements to do the jobs they had lost."

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/04/us/la ... ments.html

With this kind of mindset, we'll never get those 90 million a job.

[Vander]

I'm pretty sure Disney had to backtrack on that. H1-B's are only supposed to be used when you can't find someone domestically to fill a spot, but that obviously wasn't the case here. H1-B's are also used to drive wages down, as companies will offer jobs at sub-standard wages. When qualified domestic applicants balk at the sub-par wage, the company will say "hey we can't fill the job, we need to bring in an import."

I'm sure Jeb is labor friendly.

[woodchip]

Show me where Disney back tracked as "pretty sure" doesn't count.

[Flatlander]

Show me where Disney back tracked as "pretty sure" doesn't count.

Here ya go:

In Turnabout, Disney Cancels Tech Worker Layoffs

[woodchip]

Flatlander, that is good news as I hadn't read that. Still there are 250 Disney employees who lost their jobs back in January who are still without jobs.

[Tunnelcat]

I"m telling you, it's gonna be Jeb in 2016. He's the most qualified in the GOP.

Not if Trump keeps tripling down. People underestimate the amount of xenophobia that's rampant in the country right now and Trump's banking on that. He's even ahead of Jeb right now in the polls. The only way he's going to win is if there are more xenophobes than Latinos voting come election time, which I doubt. The Republican debates ought to be very interesting.

Besides, his border wall is a poor idea and it's going to be monetary government boondoggle at a time our government debt is crushing us. I just watched a history on the Berlin Wall and still it remained porous for years, until they essentially made a large no-man's land along the entire wall, installed listening devices to tell if tunneling was going on under it and shot people on sight when the guards spotted them. Even then, people managed to find a way to fly in ultralights or zip wire between buildings over the thing. The expense must have been HUGE, and that was just for a border around a city. Imagine building an impervious wall along our entire southern border.