I keep forgetting why this is a bad thing.....

[callmeslick]

http://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/24 ... _source=fb



oh yeah, I have to wait until some future date for some predicted disaster, etc, etc......

[Spidey]

Yea, it’s a really great thing until you consider the “Affordable Care Act” isn’t doing a damn thing to make health care affordable.

[vision]

Made health care more affordable for me! Actually having an easier time paying medical bills than before the ACA.

[woodchip]

Unless you have major medical expenses, how does paying a 5,000.00 deductible upfront make it easier?

[callmeslick]

Unless you have major medical expenses, how does paying a 5,000.00 deductible upfront make it easier?

my deductable is $500. Plus, if you think $5000 is a 'major medical expense' , you need to get out more. Add a zero or two. That's what insurance is really for, and before the ACA those of us who are paying customers picked up the tab for millions we now don't have to.

Oh, and my monthly expenses have stayed quite flat.

[callmeslick]

Yea, it’s a really great thing until you consider the “Affordable Care Act” isn’t doing a damn thing to make health care affordable.

except, it is, for MILLIONS of people.

[Spidey]

and before the ACA those of us who are paying customers picked up the tab for millions we now don't have to.

Cost shifting from the premium payer to the taxpayer doesn't count. (still have never proved you can go to the ER and get a liver transplant) In fact, most un-insured go without care, and due to the current system even many people with insurance still go without.

except, it is, for MILLIONS of people.

No…it has given access to “insurance” to millions of people…the cost of care is still on the way up. I’m not in the mood to explain the difference, already been done a million times.

Hint: Care is not the same thing as insurance.

[callmeslick]

it was called the AFFORDABLE Care act. Lowering the cost of healthcare, if it were to happen is only a side benefit. If you wish to lower the cost of care, truly, there is one sure method. It works in about 40 other countries, and works quite well. Universal, single-payer health insurance.

[Ferno]

it was called the AFFORDABLE Care act. Lowering the cost of healthcare, if it were to happen is only a side benefit. If you wish to lower the cost of care, truly, there is one sure method. It works in about 40 other countries, and works quite well. Universal, single-payer health insurance.

38.40 a month and i'm covered for everything from a broken leg to heart surgery.

[callmeslick]

damn furriners!

[Foil]

When my family was on an ACA policy last year, it was decent coverage (not as good as my employer policy, but far better than nothing, as we had a big spike in medical expenses which it mostly covered), and the premiums were about what I expected without qualifying for subsidies.

Regarding costs, I'm curious to see how the premium numbers for next year come out.

[callmeslick]

I've been hearing that('I want to see next year's numbers) for a couple years, and my premium has thus far gone up a whopping 4%

[Tunnelcat]

Oh, mine is probably going up next year WAY more than your measly 4% slick. It turns out that Oregon premiums went up almost nothing last year and the year before and now many insurance companies are short covering their costs, so it's time for Oregonians to pay the piper in 2016. Many people are going to be in for a sizable sticker shock here, including me because I currently have Lifewise, who asked for, and received permission from, the state commissioners board to raise their rates significantly. My high deductible plan low premium plan (which I want) will soon match the higher premiums of those currently available ACA low deductible high premium plans, probably somewhere around $300 or more month just for one individual. This is not sustainable for the country. Something's going to give. There will come a point that the IRS fine for NOT having insurance will be cheaper than paying those high premiums.

http://www.oregonlive.com/health/index. ... remiu.html

http://www.oregonlive.com/health/index. ... _prem.html

[callmeslick]

my low deductable, high premium plan for two people costs $1800 per month. That is, essentially, what I paid for lesser coverage three years ago after I retired. $300 per month then or now wouldn't be getting one much but catastrophic coverage in the Delaware market. Note the timeframes I'm talking about, the ACA had no negative impact on that reality.

As for 2016, my provider wanted to up the premiums by 11%, but the state rejected the increase a couple weeks back. We have yet to see what gets approved. Bottom line is that nothing short of single payer with no profit motive for private insurers will completely change that reality.

[Ferno]

damn furriners!

yeah we got it pretty good with our single-payer system. Sure there's a few bugs in the system, but because it's human-made, it's par for the course.

[callmeslick]

that, Ferno, is one of the truly galling things about the counter-arguments here. EVERY system is imperfect, for the reasons you state. Yet, the defenders of the status quo here like to cite minor imperfections in other systems and completely overlook the facts that your type of system lowers health care COSTS(Spidey) by around 40%, simplifies the whole matter of 'in-network/out of network' coverage, covers the whole damned population, you know, little stuff like that.

[Lothar]

my low deductable, high premium plan for two people costs $1800 per month

Yeah, I haven't heard anyone saying their high-end plan got more expensive. It's people at the low end, who actually have trouble affording even the most basic of health care services, who are seeing their premiums drastically increase.

(I've opted out of the standard system entirely -- I use a religious-based cost-sharing program, which gives my family high-deductible coverage for $135/month, that's not a typo. Routine stuff, I go to the $90 self-pay clinic. So I don't see the effects of high premiums directly -- but I live in the hood, where most of my neighbors are getting crushed by them.)

[Duper]

Lothar, is that a coop system?

[Lothar]

yep. https://www.chministries.org/howitworks.aspx

[callmeslick]

worth a read:
http://www.msn.com/en-us/money/insuranc ... ar-AAd1tkj

[Tunnelcat]

my low deductable, high premium plan for two people costs $1800 per month

Yeah, I haven't heard anyone saying their high-end plan got more expensive. It's people at the low end, who actually have trouble affording even the most basic of health care services, who are seeing their premiums drastically increase.

(I've opted out of the standard system entirely -- I use a religious-based cost-sharing program, which gives my family high-deductible coverage for $135/month, that's not a typo. Routine stuff, I go to the $90 self-pay clinic. So I don't see the effects of high premiums directly -- but I live in the hood, where most of my neighbors are getting crushed by them.)

I WANT a high deductable low premium plan. I'd rather that $300 a month I cough up just for myself went to my actual healthcare, not an insurance company. I have the money to pay for it too. My idea of insurance is as a tool to cover catastrophic illnesses, not everyday ills. I could get quite a bit of doctoring for that $3600 I throw away to the insurance companies as premiums every year.

As for Moda Health, they deliberately lowballed their rates to attract as many people as possible. Suckers.

[Krom]

Insurance premiums going up because of Obama care? bull★■◆●, I was on private insurance before Obama was even president and I was subjected to a 22+% rate hike EVERY YEAR and sometimes twice in the same year.

If it were up to me, I would have every insurance company in the country shut down permanently.

[Tunnelcat]

Money that goes to them would be better spent on personal healthcare, at least for everyday ailments. Insurance should be a personal choice and only for very expensive catastrophic illnesses. If costs were transparent in the industry, then people could make informed choices about their own care and decide how much to spend and not have some damn insurance weenies making the decisions FOR them.

Krom, you're absolutely right. My insurance was rising about 20% a year before the ACA came into being and even after, care costs are still rising. Plus, I can no longer choose a high deductible policy anymore, at least not through the exchanges.

[callmeslick]

Krom, moreover, that pattern had persisted for a couple decades and every President tried to address it. Kudos to Obama for moving the status quo at all.

[woodchip]

Insurance premiums going up because of Obama care? bull★■◆●, I was on private insurance before Obama was even president and I was subjected to a 22+% rate hike EVERY YEAR and sometimes twice in the same year.

If it were up to me, I would have every insurance company in the country shut down permanently.

Don't know where or what plan you were on but my Blue Cross plan some years would not go up at all. When it did it was only a few percent.

[Lothar]

Money that goes to them would be better spent on personal healthcare, at least for everyday ailments. Insurance should be a personal choice and only for very expensive catastrophic illnesses.

We are in complete agreement over this.

IMO it doesn't make sense for "insurance" to cover everyday care. That's like paying auto insurance to fill your gas tank and change your oil. Why would you add overhead to something so routine?

Routine care can be covered in a variety of ways. Up-front, pay-it-yourself pricing (like at many walk-in clinics like Doctors Express) is a solid option; I normally pay around $90 for a routine visit. For those who can't afford even that, free (need-based) clinics can fill the gap. When I was in Seattle I paid around $100/month for a primary care subscription (qliance.com) that allowed me unlimited access to my NFP on short notice (like, "I can see you at 1 o'clock today" was a common response.) In my experience, these solutions have worked considerably better than dealing with insurance and co-pays and scheduling issues.

And "insurance" should be left to cover actual catastrophic costs. Pay a few hundred dollars a month, and much like with auto or home insurance, if you run into a massive expense, the insurer is on the hook to cover it all.

My problem with Obamacare is that it was a step in the wrong direction -- doubling down on what the current system already sucks at, instead of separating out routine care from insurance and taking steps to ensure that insurance would function well for catastrophic costs and that routine care would be affordable and attainable. (Health care exchanges that aren't tied to employers are a nice idea, though -- if only the plans on such exchanges were as detailed above.)

[callmeslick]

I agree, Lothar, that primary/maintenence/wellness care ought to be on a separate level. I'd argue that it ought to made free(yes, taxes, I know) for all citizens, in a single payer plan. And, yes, the ACA didn't do a damn thing about that, but let's remember the months of debate in Congress. There were a LOT of sensible approaches which became non-starters due to filibuster threats in the Senate. The ACA should be considered salient for but a few things: getting the discourse off a 30 year status quo that was getting ever more expensive, getting a whole lot of people covered, saving all of us a little bit of money and perpetuating 'that look' on John Boehner's face. That's about all. But that bit about moving off a status quo will be seen as HUGE, and deservedly so.