and, hopefully the last....

[callmeslick]

.......what earthly reason is there to do this? None given by the sponsors or governor. This seems as backward-thinking as anything I could imagine.

http://ecowatch.com/2014/06/13/ohio-gov ... gy-freeze/

[woodchip]

.......what earthly reason is there to do this? None given by the sponsors or governor. This seems as backward-thinking as anything I could imagine.

http://ecowatch.com/2014/06/13/ohio-gov ... gy-freeze/

Well my first thought is renewable energy was costing too much (contrary to the sources complaining about it. Next time try and find opposing sources so you can balance the picture), much like the US did not agree to the Kyoto Accord.

[callmeslick]

just saw the passage,but can't find any reasoning to justify it. Were the costs to the public prohibitive, I could see that. I find nothing to state anything of the sort. Were there dangers or other downsides, I'd listen, but no one lists those. It SEEMS to be at the behest of the oil,gas and coal people, but if anyone can find the reasoning, let me know.

[Vander]

He's running for president. He has to signal his ability to kick hippies and please the cigar smoking back room.

[Spidey]

If using renewable sources saves consumers money, how come I have to pay more for it if I sign up to use renewable as a percentage on my usage?

[Tunnelcat]

He's in the pockets of the coal and oil companies, aka, the Koch Bros. They want to keep burning their dirty fuel to make more profits. Too bad if we all suffocate or get sick on the airborne waste products coming off those profits.

I'm actually thinking about putting solar cells on my roof. The house's roof faces south with no sun blockages and the square footage is HUGE. I'd make back my money selling to the power company in no time. First though, I have to get rid of the concrete roof tiles. Gotta scrape up the cash for that first. Congress isn't helping either by letting renewable energy tax credits expire.

https://www.greentechmedia.com/articles ... -extenders

[callmeslick]

I'm thinking of turning a 5 acre chunk of farmland with southern exposure into a solar farm(been doing so for several years). Amazon is doing likewise with a 1200 acre piece of land about 6 miles away.

[Tunnelcat]

At least our state is still giving solar tax credits. But we tend to be more liberal here.

[Spidey]

Nice…ignore the question.

So maybe it’s only people who install personal power generation devices that see this drop in consumer prices…after they repay the initial investment?

Come on…don’t be shy.

[callmeslick]

in the long run, any short term costs are offset by: 1) the benefit of reducing greenhouse gases, and particulate pollution, 2) the contribution to the ongoing development of alternatives to non-renewable energy sources and thus 3) the overall benefit to society, meaning generations to come. Fair tradeoffs to my mind.

[Spidey]

I agree, but you didn’t answer either of my questions.

[Tunnelcat]

Nice…ignore the question.

So maybe it’s only people who install personal power generation devices that see this drop in consumer prices…after they repay the initial investment?

Come on…don’t be shy.

So? We have to get started somewhere down the road to renewable energy and it's the early adopters that either reap the benefits of new technology after they've laid out the initial cash, or end up shelling out loads of cash just for the privilege of being the first users of that technology. If it's a win, we ALL eventually reap the rewards. Oil and natural gas are not endless, so sitting on our butts won't solve a thing down the road.

[Spidey]

"So?"

Well fine, I can only assume the statement made in the OP’s link that renewable energy is saving consumers money is a lie…have it your way.

That was the point I was driving at, not the benefits of renewable, or whether or not we should do it.

[callmeslick]

"So?"

Well fine, I can only assume the statement made in the OP’s link that renewable energy is saving consumers money is a lie…have it your way.

That was the point I was driving at, not the benefits of renewable, or whether or not we should do it.

one doesn't have to save consumers money at the outset to save over time. Might seem like splitting hairs to you, but that is a perfectly valid assessment, Spidey.

[Spidey]

Thank you...

Confirmed...the OP's link contains a huge lie.

[woodchip]

Nice…ignore the question.

So maybe it’s only people who install personal power generation devices that see this drop in consumer prices…after they repay the initial investment?

Come on…don’t be shy.

So? We have to get started somewhere down the road to renewable energy and it's the early adopters that either reap the benefits of new technology after they've laid out the initial cash, or end up shelling out loads of cash just for the privilege of being the first users of that technology. If it's a win, we ALL eventually reap the rewards. Oil and natural gas are not endless, so sitting on our butts won't solve a thing down the road.

I understand the owners of Solyndra won pretty big at the expense of the taxpayers.

[callmeslick]

Thank you...

Confirmed...the OP's link contains a huge lie.

ummm, not really.

[callmeslick]

Nice…ignore the question.

So maybe it’s only people who install personal power generation devices that see this drop in consumer prices…after they repay the initial investment?

Come on…don’t be shy.

So? We have to get started somewhere down the road to renewable energy and it's the early adopters that either reap the benefits of new technology after they've laid out the initial cash, or end up shelling out loads of cash just for the privilege of being the first users of that technology. If it's a win, we ALL eventually reap the rewards. Oil and natural gas are not endless, so sitting on our butts won't solve a thing down the road.

regurgitates yet another of the whines about Obama that he's been beating to death for years now. Nothing to see here, folks

[woodchip]

So Solyndra is a lie or are you just trying to kick detritus over it like a dog covering his poop?

[callmeslick]

So Solyndra is a lie or are you just trying to kick detritus over it like a dog covering his poop?

lots of smoke and very little fire, in the overall picture of grants made to green energy businesses. Loans and grants went to, what, around 250 plus businesses and research groups, and after all these years it's still just all-Solyndra, all the time with the sheep on the right. That you can't find,say, two or three others after all these years speaks well of Obama's initiative, and poorly of your ability to grasp that you were played by your handlers.

[woodchip]

Nice try at mitigating.

[callmeslick]

Nice try at mitigating.

I'm quite sure the irony of this comment is lost on you. See 'Solyndra comments for no good reason' for a clue.

[woodchip]

500 mil is a lot of fire. How many of those other co. got loans when the business already knew it was going belly up.

[vision]

Ah, the good old Solyndra angle. Perfect for the unimaginative debater who only has one, piss-poor example to make a point, then just repeats it over and over again.

[callmeslick]

exactly, out of what, 42 billion in stimulus, he harps on one item for 6 years?

[woodchip]

Sorry vision, I thought you of all people might look first before replying:

A123: The battery maker received a $249 million Department of Energy stimulus grant to build two factories in Michigan to manufacture batteries for electric cars.
As part of A123's bankruptcy announced earlier this week, the factories were sold to Johnson Controls (JCI), which is expected to keep them open. Since the investment was a grant, the government got no money back.

Abound Solar: The manufacturer of thin-film solar panels received a $400 million DOE stimulus loan guarantee to build two factories -- one outside Kokomo, Indiana and another outside of Denver.
Its assets are being auctioned off, and DOE is expected to lose to $40 to $60 million on the deal.

Beacon Power: The company received a $43 million DOE stimulus loan guarantee to build a facility in upstate New York that uses flywheels to store extra energy from the power grid, and then release it when needed. Such technology is seen as essential to integrate wind and solar into the grid, as those sources don't produce energy 24/7.
The company spent $39 million to build the project, which consists of wheels inside vacuum tubes that can spin at near perpetual motion. Beacon went bankrupt amid low prices for natural gas, which can be burned to produce electricity.

Would you like me to list more? As a aside the building Abound bought was originally being built for GETRAG, a German transmission plant. The project went into bankruptcy. At the time I was supplying millwork to the project. I was stuck with a $250,000 claim for work supplied there so the building seems to be a bit jinxed.

[callmeslick]

so, Woody, we are up to less than 1% of all the energy stimulus going up in smoke. Big freaking deal.

[Tunnelcat]

"So?"

Well fine, I can only assume the statement made in the OP’s link that renewable energy is saving consumers money is a lie…have it your way.

That was the point I was driving at, not the benefits of renewable, or whether or not we should do it.

There must be some benefit to installing solar panels or people wouldn't be installing them. There are a lot of them now on roofs in just my neighborhood. And they aren't using batteries as reserve storage either. They're selling the power directly back to the electric company during the day and they claim they are cutting their electric bills way down. If you want a figure, I''ll have to ask them for the actual numbers.

[Lothar]

I'm actually getting rooftop solar installed, probably in March (it's been pushed back twice due to changing up the battery backup configuration.)

Financially, the only reason it works is the 30% federal tax credit and Solar City's financing model. On the whole, it ends up being very slightly cheaper to finance solar panels than to pay for the same amount of power from the grid. It costs several thousand more to include the battery backup system that will allow me to keep the lights, the furnace or evaporative cooler blower, and the internet running in an outage, but that's the main draw for me at this time.

[vision]

so, Woody, we are up to less than 1% of all the energy stimulus going up in smoke. Big freaking deal.

Thanks for pointing this out for me. When it comes to investing, the kind of gains seen by the alternative energy stimulus are nothing short of spectacular, and proof that the government, in some cases, can do a much better job with our money than private industry. Every time I read/hear Solyndra I think "Man, we did such a great job with that green energy initiative." It's really outstanding.

[Tunnelcat]

I'm actually getting rooftop solar installed, probably in March (it's been pushed back twice due to changing up the battery backup configuration.)

Financially, the only reason it works is the 30% federal tax credit and Solar City's financing model. On the whole, it ends up being very slightly cheaper to finance solar panels than to pay for the same amount of power from the grid. It costs several thousand more to include the battery backup system that will allow me to keep the lights, the furnace or evaporative cooler blower, and the internet running in an outage, but that's the main draw for me at this time.

Better check on that federal tax credit. My neighbor in the know said he thought congress was letting it expire in 2016.

[callmeslick]

I'm actually getting rooftop solar installed, probably in March (it's been pushed back twice due to changing up the battery backup configuration.)

Financially, the only reason it works is the 30% federal tax credit and Solar City's financing model. On the whole, it ends up being very slightly cheaper to finance solar panels than to pay for the same amount of power from the grid. It costs several thousand more to include the battery backup system that will allow me to keep the lights, the furnace or evaporative cooler blower, and the internet running in an outage, but that's the main draw for me at this time.

Better check on that federal tax credit. My neighbor in the know said he thought congress was letting it expire in 2016.

your neighbor, as things currently stand, is correct.

[Ferno]

As much as I love solar (and it's really really freakin awesome), I don't think it's ready yet. The panels are not good enough [although they're really close] and the storage batteries are really not good enough. I'd personally wait for the 4th gen panels to come out and the 4.55v/cell lithium chemistry to be stable enough for home storage use.

I'm currently playing around with a 4.35v/cell lithium pack to see if it's going to hold up versus the older tech.

[vision]

The panels are not good enough [although they're really close] and the storage batteries are really not good enough.

I get news feeds with solar info and the other day I read about a new design that extends into the infrared and mixes frequencies to output about 40% more power. Should be interesting. These types of advancements are coming incredibly fast.

[Ferno]

The panels are not good enough [although they're really close] and the storage batteries are really not good enough.

I get news feeds with solar info and the other day I read about a new design that extends into the infrared and mixes frequencies to output about 40% more power. Should be interesting. These types of advancements are coming incredibly fast.

I hope they come fast enough.