France Closes Boarder

[woodchip]

In the aftermath of the massacre of 120 french citizens by islamnoterrorists, the French president has closed the boarders. I have to wonder if the French will continue to allow migrants from Muslim countries to wander freely about. The carnage was horrendous and I wouldn't be surprised if this attack sets back the immigration policies for Muslims. My sympathies to the French people.

[Tunnelcat]

You do mean "borders", not "boarders", unless the French want to repel hoards of pirates from coming aboard their ship.

But I agree woody, that it will be interesting to see what type of backlash comes out of this attack. Will the French, or even most Europeans, become more xenophobic and start kicking out anyone who's a Muslim, or Muslin appearing immigrants? Even natural born citizen Muslims in general? If this killing of western civilians by ISIS keeps up, there will be a backlash eventually.

[sigma]

If Britain and the United States officially declared Russia the main threat to its national security, then why they canceled the flights of aircraft in Sharm el-Sheikh and Paris, not in Moscow and St. Petersburg?

[callmeslick]

@sigma, neither nation did make that assertion.

@tc--xenophobia is rampant in parts of Europe already, and it's yet another cycle of stupidity in the western world. They've basically locked away the
Muslim populace in ghettos for decades(especially in France) then wonder why angry young people, formerly street thugs, head off to the Middle East and come back radicalized street fighters. Then some folks point fingers at the whole Muslim population and marginalize largely decent people further.

[Tunnelcat]

Yeah slick, it's fear, arrogance and stupidity at it's worst, but it's also human nature and it starts more wars than we realize. Take for example the Bosnian War. People who used to be neighbors, all living together side by side in relative peace and then suddenly one group turns on the other group and commits the most heinous of crimes, mass rapes and the worst incidence of genocide since the Nazis, all for what? A single declaration of independence by one group, suddenly makes old neighbors who used to co-exist together, turn into murdering, torturing and raping sociopaths. Crazy, isn't it?

People might want to read about this experiment a teacher performed in her classroom right after Martin Luther King was assassinated.

http://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/l ... -72754306/

[woodchip]

Seems half of the US governors are closing their states borders. The problem is vetting those refugee's. With no records available from the home country, how do you prove who they are?

[callmeslick]

the Governors have no such power, at all. Lots of political posturing. EVERYONE understands that these people should be vetted before admission as refugees, and the US has a huge leg up at making that task EASY: First off, they have to go overseas to get here, it isn't like they are coming in on foot or little boats. Second, we have the luxury of going over the paperwork before they come near here, and finally, very few of them were previously residents of the US, which is not the case for Europe. They have a huge issue with fighters of European birth returning to cause trouble. We have relatively few people who have made it over there, and all of them would be immediately suspect.

[Top Gun]

It is comforting to see those governors essentially doing exactly what ISIS wants them to do. So who's being patriotic again?

[SilverFJ]

What most of us see on television is a wide mob swath of unregulated, riotous people leaving a war zone and causing trouble. I think the important thing regarding any and all refugees coming to America, is that the "invasion" that people fear is not going to be at all aesthetically similar. We'll have as much control in letting these people in as we want. This is not ~125,000 of Castro's prison dregs washing up on our shores.

[Spidey]

It is comforting to see those governors essentially doing exactly what ISIS wants them to do. So who's being patriotic again?

As if they were just your average run of the mill terrorist group.

Please tell me “Exactly what ISIS wants them to do”.

[callmeslick]

ISIS wishes to make this a battle of the West versus Middle Eastern Muslims, as opposed to around 50,000 radical, fundamentalist nuts. Rejecting refugees and appearing to turn our backs on little kids(Christie said no to 'orphans'!) plays DIRECTLY into the propaganda ISIS promotes.

[Spidey]

Lol “turning our backs on the little kids” These people kill little kids!

[Tunnelcat]

http://news.yahoo.com/watch-shepard-smi ... 21653.html

[callmeslick]

Lol “turning our backs on the little kids” These people kill little kids!

and you wish us to be essentially the same? As it is, you don't think WE'VE killed THOUSANDS of children since 2001? If so, I ask, "what rock are you living under?" It's far past time for us to be,once again, a moral compass for the world, not a wannabe empire.

[Spidey]

What most of us see on television is a wide mob swath of unregulated, riotous people leaving a war zone and causing trouble. I think the important thing regarding any and all refugees coming to America, is that the "invasion" that people fear is not going to be at all aesthetically similar. We'll have as much control in letting these people in as we want. This is not ~125,000 of Castro's prison dregs washing up on our shores.

The dumbest thing in regards to the refugee issue is setting quotas…because that now puts the pressure on to meet them, and when you fall short, the temptation to cut corners sets in.

[Spidey]

Lol “turning our backs on the little kids” These people kill little kids!

and you wish us to be essentially the same? As it is, you don't think WE'VE killed THOUSANDS of children since 2001? If so, I ask, "what rock are you living under?" It's far past time for us to be,once again, a moral compass for the world, not a wannabe empire.

Yea, I should have said "murder".

[Top Gun]

ISIS wishes to make this a battle of the West versus Middle Eastern Muslims, as opposed to around 50,000 radical, fundamentalist nuts. Rejecting refugees and appearing to turn our backs on little kids(Christie said no to 'orphans'!) plays DIRECTLY into the propaganda ISIS promotes.

Precisely. The modus operandi of any good terrorist group is to provoke short-sighted reactionary measures by its target, ones that wind up serving as a fantastic recruiting tool for other would-be extremists. "Hey, check it out, the Great Satan is acting all racist and oppressive towards Muslims, just like ISIS said they were! These guys are right!" The only effective way to fight back and win against terrorism in the long-term is to deny it its terror, to show that you are indeed the better side, and to alleviate the conditions that produce the levels of desperation which make strapping a bomb to your chest seem like your best option. Basically, as a certain former president said, you need those "hearts and minds" (only minus the spectacularly-unnecessary invasion and utterly cocked-up aftermath, as those are the exact sorts of things that promote extremism). We pay so much lip service to calling ourselves a "great country," but it's only by actually acting like one that we can strike a direct blow against terrorism.

“Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!”

[snoopy]

Lol “turning our backs on the little kids” These people kill little kids!

and you wish us to be essentially the same? As it is, you don't think WE'VE killed THOUSANDS of children since 2001? If so, I ask, "what rock are you living under?" It's far past time for us to be,once again, a moral compass for the world, not a wannabe empire.

Make that tens of millions.... I agree wholeheartedly. Let's stop killing our children.

[Spidey]

ISIS is not “a good terrorist group” they are a pseudo nation state that is at war with the entire world, those attacks are not designed to do what you claim, but in fact are retaliation for the bombings of their people and an attempt to dissuade further attacks.

ISIS does not operate with the same MO as other terror groups, and to start to assign these things to them is a big mistake. I doubt they really give a rat’s ass about manipulating politics in the countries they attack, because that is not the kind of fight they are in.

And to put things in perspective…there is nothing any American governor can do or say that will shine a lesser light on America than the lies and crap they already say about this country.

[callmeslick]

yes, and no, Spidey. ISIS is a fundamentalist religious organization, with political aspirations only within a given region, dictated by their literal interpretation of the Koran. Far, far different than other terrorist groups as you say, but for different reasons than you cite.

[Spidey]

Not according to the experts and the group itself.

“On 29 June 2014, the group proclaimed itself to be a worldwide caliphate”

[callmeslick]

Not according to the experts and the group itself.

“On 29 June 2014, the group proclaimed itself to be a worldwide caliphate”

they may have a different view of the 'world' than you and I.



Oh, and on the subject of the initial post, perhaps France is closing the borders to keep the dangerous ones from leaving. Thus far, every participant is a French citizen. Even the one with the supposed passport, which turned out to be bogus.

[Top Gun]

yes, and no, Spidey. ISIS is a fundamentalist religious organization, with political aspirations only within a given region, dictated by their literal interpretation of the Koran. Far, far different than other terrorist groups as you say, but for different reasons than you cite.

Not to mention that treating ISIS as a nation and "declaring war" on it legitimizes it far more than its own actions ever could. The War on Terror, the War on Drugs, the War on Poverty: all were "wars" declared on ideals instead of entities, and all were pretty much equally unsuccessful at achieving their end goals. While military response against them is appropriate given the amount of territory they've acquired, treat them as what they are: a terrorist organization which has now committed criminal acts in multiple countries.

Edit: Oh hey, check this out. The "Syrian refugee" passport found near the body of one of the terrorists was a fake, one that has popped up in numerous locations related to the investigation. No way that ISIS could be attempting to incite negative sentiment against refugees, given that they're on record as saying that people are "giving up their lives and souls" by fleeing to Europe, right?

[Ferno]

Not to mention the fingerprints matched those found in Greece around early october.

[woodchip]

One Passport to rule them all, One Passport to find them,
One Passport to bring them all and in the darkness bind them