The motive for the California mass murder...

[Nightshade]

This guy puts everything into perspective when it comes to the Christmas party massacre that happened on Dec. 2nd in California:

WNU Editor: What's my take on yesterday's massacre .... we have a devout Muslim who travelled to Saudi Arabia, was apparently in touch with people being investigated by the FBI for international terrorism, kept to himself (but according to the neighbours had a lot of late night visitors), and was living the "American dream" while having a great job that bent every-way possible to accommodate his beliefs (Muslim holidays, Hajj trip, going home numerous times a the day to pray .... with pay, etc ) .... nothing wrong so far .... we have a devout family man, wife and baby .... though I am jealous of the job that he had.

But out of the blue he decides to storm a Christmas party and kill scores of his fellow workers .... some who had recently given his wife a baby-shower. And after being killed (with his wife who was a willing accomplice) we then discover that in his home he had 11 IEDs, 12 pipebombs, a "garage factory" to make more IEDs and pipe-bombs, an arsenal of weapons, body armour, bullets, etc. .... hmmmm .... this certainly does not look like workplace violence to me. But according to the mainstream media and government officials .... the line that is being spawned is that no one still understands the motive for this couple to commit yesterday's massacre. But this doubt is not stopping some who are now blaming Republicans for the massacre .... Democrats to GOP: Prayers are not enough (Politico) .... which I admit is completely incomprehensible to me.

Bottom line .... yesterday's attack was done by a couple who were radicalised .... and they armed themselves to even include IEDs and pipe-bombs. They made a decision ... probably a long time ago .... to launch such an attack .... and circumstances were such that they exploded yesterday. This was/is not work-place violence .... this is premeditated with a goal to cause mass mayhem and murder. In short .... a terror attack.

http://warnewsupdates.blogspot.com/2015 ... sacre.html

Photo of one of the "suspects," - Syed Farook: http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/ ... rook_1.png

[Ferno]

How'd I know you'd post this... STRAIGHT to the muslim card.

[Nightshade]

How'd I know you'd post this... STRAIGHT to the muslim card.

Because...truth?

[Ferno]

How'd I know you'd post this... STRAIGHT to the muslim card.

Because...truth?

because: jumping to conclusions. and bigotry.

[Nightshade]

because: jumping to conclusions. and bigotry.

Apologize all you want for islam Ferno. They still want to kill you.

[Ferno]

Apologize all you want for islam Ferno. They still want to kill you.

Ooh, ooh, I love this game! Here's one! 2 + zebra ÷ glockenspiel = He's an islam apologist

Can you do one about paganism, too?

[Vander]

I'm not sure why this can't be islamic terrorism and workplace violence. They were obviously planning something, but was it this? This doesn't seem highly planned or choreographed. They didn't seem overly suicidal, or at least, dying didn't appear to be part of whatever plan they did have. A lot of it looks spontaneous. At the very least, there are some oddities that support multiple motives.

[Nightshade]

How'd I know you'd post this... STRAIGHT to the muslim card.

Actually, I won't bother responding to fern's 1 liner bomb throwing from now on. Just personal shots from him if pursued.

[Ferno]

I'm not sure why this can't be islamic terrorism and workplace violence.

the former is a planet-sized stretch; the only thing connecting the two is the name -- but the latter is a lot more reasonable

[woodchip]

I'm not sure why this can't be islamic terrorism and workplace violence. They were obviously planning something, but was it this? This doesn't seem highly planned or choreographed. They didn't seem overly suicidal, or at least, dying didn't appear to be part of whatever plan they did have. A lot of it looks spontaneous. At the very least, there are some oddities that support multiple motives.

spontaneous? Lets see, the guy wipes his hard drive etc, they make pipe bombs, the woman drops her kid off at relatives, they both don body armor. Yup, sure sounds spontaneous to me.

[woodchip]

How'd I know you'd post this... STRAIGHT to the muslim card.

You're disappointed because he couldn't go straight to the Christian card?

[callmeslick]

I am still not in any way convinced that the holiday party was the intended target, and partly because they were heading off elsewhere in the car when they were confronted. It almost seems as if they were planning some other attack(and, yes, I am convinced they were planning something), and got the notion of tossing the party into the mix.

As to this in ANY way indicting all Muslims, that is that same xenophobia and ignorance that spawns radicalization.

[woodchip]

Um...no one said all Muslims. OTOH, tell me again how well we can vet people coming in from Syria when ISIS has already said they are planting their own people in the immigrant mix.

[Vander]

the former is a planet-sized stretch; the only thing connecting the two is the name -- but the latter is a lot more reasonable

I don't think it's any kind of stretch to call this islamic terrorism. They were at the very least planning an attack. Whether or not this was the actual target of that planning is what I'm curious about.

spontaneous? Lets see, the guy wipes his hard drive etc, they make pipe bombs, the woman drops her kid off at relatives, they both don body armor. Yup, sure sounds spontaneous to me.

From what I understand, they wore tactical gear, but not body armor. They found body armor at their home unused, along with a cache of unused pipe bombs. They went home after the attack?

They don't appear to be the jihadis in black pajamas swinging on monkey bars in some Al Qaida video, so there is probably a lack of training at play. But the level of actual planning seems to be low.

I'm not saying it was completely spontaneous, just that there is an appearance of spontaneity. As if they were planning something else, and at some point decided to put their resources into this instead on short notice, and didn't have time to fully plan it.

And that may very well be expected in lone wolf type terrorism, divorced from a chain of command. Ambiguous oddities tailored more toward the individual perpetrators than some global doctrine being followed.

[callmeslick]

Vander's analysis seems sound, and more fully thought out than mine(I beg off as its been a busy week on the estate executor front).
What I found astounding, watching CNN whilst waiting at a bank this AM was that the wife apparently 'pledged loyalty to ISIS' on Facebook.
Face-Freaking-Book?? Really? What the hell is being done with the gazillions of dollars we've pumped into anti-terrorism surveillance over the past decade or more that no one can pick up a Facebook post?

[Tunnelcat]

Um...no one said all Muslims. OTOH, tell me again how well we can vet people coming in from Syria when ISIS has already said they are planting their own people in the immigrant mix.

The California shooter was an American-born Muslim. How do you vet someone like him? The husband seemed be to the typical happy American holding down a regular job and not doing anything that would have put him on anyone's radar, other than buying several semiautomatic assault rifles and enough ammo to run an army and we know that even people on the no-fly list can buy any type of gun they want because Republicans think that's OK. And how far will all this fear and loathing go, to the point of expelling all Muslims from America, or putting them into camps like we did Japanese Americans after Pearl Harbor? Plus, don't forget that many of our recent mass shooters were good ol' white Americans.

[Nightshade]

Ambiguous oddities tailored more toward the individual perpetrators than some global doctrine being followed.

The global doctrine being advanced is jihad in the name of islam. It doesn't matter if it's 'spontaneous' or not.

[Vander]

The global doctrine being advanced is jihad in the name of islam. It doesn't matter if it's 'spontaneous' or not.

It matters when you're trying to reach conclusions and some of the information is ambiguous.

[woodchip]

Sorry Vander slick et al, the fbi has come out and said it was terrorism. Try not listening to the apologists at npr and msnbc. Appears TB was right.

[Vander]

I said it wasn't terrorism?

[Ferno]

the former is a planet-sized stretch; the only thing connecting the two is the name -- but the latter is a lot more reasonable

I don't think it's any kind of stretch to call this islamic terrorism. They were at the very least planning an attack. Whether or not this was the actual target of that planning is what I'm curious about.

Well, at this point, we have no information about the motive behind this. So let's not rush to judgement.

If the guy had a irish sounding name, would you think it was an IRA attack? The road from legitimate suspicion to rampant paranoia is indeed shorter than we think.

[callmeslick]

good to see that most of us still have our wits intact:

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/most-a ... ar-AAg2ay9

[Tunnelcat]

I bet this guy really regrets buying those 2 assault rifles for his friend Farook. The moral is, never buy guns for someone else.

http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/san-be ... ns-n474911