Descent 1 1/2

Kaizerwolf · Post by **Kaizerwolf** » Mon Jan 04, 2016 2:42 pm

Xfing wrote: Well, to be honest the levels from the Counterstrike systems should be quite conservative in terms of theme, that is they shouldn't really stray out of the primary theme of the system. The ice levels are entirely ice. I know that's kinda boring and of course you can mix stuff up with "neutral" textures like the ubiquitous gray etc. Thing is, with this mission pack the concept is to use a bit more Descent 1 textures than Parallax did for Counterstrike. They probably wanted to make Descent 2 as different from D1 as possible to warrant people buying both games and therefore wanted to showcase primarily the new textures - we don't have such limitations, so we can use whatever we like, and I feel we should as it makes things more interesting. In fact, I think you could use quite a bit of the white "lab" textures in this level, they really help with the "processing facility" factor. Plus, Parallax used them a bit in level 16 of Counterstrike and they fit quite well.

Yes! I can do that! The ice themes are kind of dull but I do like building with them. I'll definitely come up with a facility type of level. As for the Beta Ceti levels, I'll see if any of my skeletal levels could be transformed into some kind of wacky level or whatnot.

Xfing · Post by **Xfing** » Mon Jan 04, 2016 5:15 pm

Ok so just remind me if you have access to dropbox or not.

Kaizerwolf · Post by **Kaizerwolf** » Tue Jan 05, 2016 9:45 am

Xfing wrote:Ok so just remind me if you have access to dropbox or not.

Yes, sorry! I do have access still. Thanks!

Xfing · Post by **Xfing** » Tue Jan 05, 2016 11:37 am

Kaizerwolf wrote:
Xfing wrote:Ok so just remind me if you have access to dropbox or not.
Yes, sorry! I do have access still. Thanks!

Ok great, just wanted to make sure cos I couldn't remember

Kaizerwolf · Post by **Kaizerwolf** » Wed Jan 06, 2016 10:35 am

For the Beta Ceti level, let me run an idea through you guys;

The level I chose comes after a boss fight. Would it be straying too far from the Descent II/Vertigo style to have the level be disturbingly empty and quiet, focused in the beginning more on puzzles and exploration, and as the level progresses, add more bots until the reactor room is an insane destruction fest?

If that doesn't work it's totally cool, I can always make the same kind of level just with lots of bots around anyway.

Alter-Fox · Post by **Alter-Fox** » Wed Jan 06, 2016 11:05 am

I personally like the idea, that late in such a long mission to change things up a little bit.

Xfing · Post by **Xfing** » Thu Jan 07, 2016 9:10 am

Well, all that matters is the overall difficulty of the level so a gimmick like that can sure be made to work. I wouldn't go with too many totally empty sections though - that's more of a secret level domain. I think going with single, token mid-difficulty bots per area (even a large one) could also accomplish this goal.

We'll have to remember that bit for this level when the time comes to fill the levels up with robots

Kaizerwolf · Post by **Kaizerwolf** » Thu Jan 07, 2016 10:09 am

Xfing wrote:

We'll have to remember that bit for this level when the time comes to fill the levels up with robots

I can just put placeholder drones or mines around, just to show where they might be. We'll see though!

Turns out, the flash drive that holds all my DLE-XP and D1.5 assets is in the hands of my room mate, and I have his flash drive. So when we get back to school from break, we'll get around to trading them.

Xfing · Post by **Xfing** » Thu Jan 07, 2016 12:13 pm

Kaizerwolf wrote:
Xfing wrote:

We'll have to remember that bit for this level when the time comes to fill the levels up with robots
I can just put placeholder drones or mines around, just to show where they might be. We'll see though!

Turns out, the flash drive that holds all my DLE-XP and D1.5 assets is in the hands of my room mate, and I have his flash drive. So when we get back to school from break, we'll get around to trading them.

Well, the assets themselves should be available on Dropbox so it bails you out

Kaizerwolf · Post by **Kaizerwolf** » Fri Jan 08, 2016 7:20 am

Xfing wrote:
Well, the assets themselves should be available on Dropbox so it bails you out

That's true, but my WIP projects are all there!

Darth Wang · Post by **Darth Wang** » Sat Jan 16, 2016 9:14 am

I have a question, is this going to have a plot? Like with briefings and such?

If so, I could write it if you want.

Alter-Fox · Post by **Alter-Fox** » Sat Jan 16, 2016 1:26 pm

I don't think it's going to be a very detailed plot if there is one.
I had come up with a simple storyline (focused mainly on backstory like the original game) that has got a twist by the end. No idea what the plans are though.

Darth Wang · Post by **Darth Wang** » Sat Jan 16, 2016 4:27 pm

I have an idea for a story involving time travel... could that be worked in?

Xfing · Post by **Xfing** » Sat Jan 16, 2016 7:51 pm

I have a plotline in mind here. It's going to be closely related to First Strike and Counterstrike, basically another mission like Vertigo. The twist is that the pilot here is a mercenary on "long-term employment" that Dravis alluded to in the games, so his "need-to-know" is a bit higher than those of single-contract pilots. It's gonna tie into the story like Vertigo did. The premise is that the alien virus' evolution has advanced so far that it now allows it FTL communication, so it can coordinate attacks on remote PTMC holdings. Whether or not this evolution is due to PTMC's research or not will be revealed towards the end, leaving the pilot disillusioned with his employer.

And briefings are going to be like in Descent 1 - a short, laconic description before each mine (though probably a bit more intel) and longer briefing sections between every segment of the game, kinda like the introductory briefing to Descent 1.

LightWolf · Post by **LightWolf** » Sat Jan 16, 2016 8:26 pm

Maybe you could also throw in a hacker that triggered the outbreak of the modified virus with some sort of evil goal in mind.
Another suggestion is to extend the "chapter" theme by including several minor storyline developments leading to a major development between games. (For example, reveal the hacker before level 1 of the D2 portion, then tie the hacker to the PTMC before level 1 of the Vertigo portion)
(Excuse my almost-rambling) Speaking of chapters, you could devide the weapons into "weak", "medium-strength", and "strong", and introduce them in their relative games. (Ex. Homers in D1, Super Laser in D2, Fusion in Vertigo)

Xfing · Post by **Xfing** » Sun Jan 17, 2016 6:19 pm

LightWolf wrote: (Excuse my almost-rambling) Speaking of chapters, you could devide the weapons into "weak", "medium-strength", and "strong", and introduce them in their relative games. (Ex. Homers in D1, Super Laser in D2, Fusion in Vertigo)

That's the plan as of right now. Introducing Fusion in the Solar System portion would be a bad idea, seeing how Fusion is one of the strongest weapons out there. It'll come in the Vertigo portion for sure.

Phozon · Post by **Phozon** » Sun Jan 31, 2016 11:11 am

Xfing wrote: That's the plan as of right now. Introducing Fusion in the Solar System portion would be a bad idea, seeing how Fusion is one of the strongest weapons out there. It'll come in the Vertigo portion for sure.

Not having fusion for all of the descent 1 theme seems bad to me.
In Descent 1 fusion is introduced about 2/5 or 1/3(depending on counting secret levels) through the campaign, and is a major part of the game (especially for playing through levels Fast like it do).

Alter-Fox · Post by **Alter-Fox** » Sun Jan 31, 2016 1:11 pm

That is a good point Phozon...

Xfing · Post by **Xfing** » Sun Jan 31, 2016 5:44 pm

Xfing wrote:
LightWolf wrote: (Excuse my almost-rambling) Speaking of chapters, you could devide the weapons into "weak", "medium-strength", and "strong", and introduce them in their relative games. (Ex. Homers in D1, Super Laser in D2, Fusion in Vertigo)
That's the plan as of right now. Introducing Fusion in the Solar System portion would be a bad idea, seeing how Fusion is one of the strongest weapons out there. It'll come in the Vertigo portion for sure.

The Solar System levels are going to be way easier than the ones in D1 though. They'll only resemble them in appearance.

And Fusion as it is in Descent 1 is on par or even stronger than even the new weapons from D2, so much so that they had to nerf it halfway for it not to steal the spotlight again. It's gonna come in real handy once the really difficult levels start in the mission, but it's not needed in the early, comparatively easy ones.

Phozon · Post by **Phozon** » Tue Feb 02, 2016 5:16 pm

I want to start on a D1 level for this, but i'm a bit confused about adding robots and weapons. If i do add my own, will they most likely be gotten rid of, do I get a say in where robots and items go in my level at all?

Can I have a very early level? I reckon I can do mars- just like the d1 levels: All red rock, lots of annoying backtracking

, and some lava.

Xfing · Post by **Xfing** » Tue Feb 02, 2016 5:22 pm

Phozon wrote:I want to start on a D1 level for this, but i'm a bit confused about adding robots and weapons. If i do add my own, will they most likely be gotten rid of, do I get a say in where robots and items go in my level at all?

You can make some placeholder robots and items for sure, and we'll later consider the locations when properly filling up the level. You can use say, Class 1 Drones and energy powerups or something and just sumbit notes with your preferences - most if not all of them will be taken into account.

We're generally holding off on filling the mines to maintain greater control over the difficulty progression and cohesion.

Phozon · Post by **Phozon** » Tue Feb 02, 2016 5:23 pm

Xfing wrote: We're generally holding off on filling the mines to maintain greater control over the difficulty progression and cohesion.

makes sense,, sign me up for level 4 then!

Oh! And do you need spaces for co-op players to spawn? how many?

Phozon · Post by **Phozon** » Tue Feb 02, 2016 9:30 pm

mmm, the first room is looking swEet already,,(if i do sayso myself).
This the style you want me going for?:
[spoiler]

[/spoiler]

EDIT: bar expanding the yellow door section, and ADDING ALL THE LIGHTING<<<(note to self: actually do this omg), the level is finished. I don't actually know where to send stuff, upload stuff. Is there some dropbox, and can I see other peoples levels there, so far?

Xfing · Post by **Xfing** » Wed Feb 03, 2016 4:42 pm

Well it looks totally like a Mars mine, so by all means, keep doing what you're doing

For coop starting points the regular amount would be good - I don't think you should worry about those right now, we'll get to that later. Just add as many as you feel like.

As for dropbox - we do indeed have one. Give me your e-mail address so I can make it available to you.

Xfing · Post by **Xfing** » Thu Feb 04, 2016 6:10 pm

Holy cow, that level is really amazing! It looks, feels and plays like something made in 1995 and the atmosphere is TOTALLY Martian. I love every bit of this level. Keep working on it at your leisure and let me know when it's finished, so I can convert it to D2. Nothing will be lost in the conversion and the level will look identical.

Apart from finishing the lighting and the exit tunnel I found only one thing that needs fixing - the grate that lets you see into the reactor chamber from the yellow room isn't transparent from below.

Phozon · Post by **Phozon** » Thu Feb 04, 2016 9:13 pm

Xfing wrote:Holy cow, that level is really amazing! It looks, feels and plays like something made in 1995 and the atmosphere is TOTALLY Martian. I love every bit of this level. Keep working on it at your leisure and let me know when it's finished, so I can convert it to D2. Nothing will be lost in the conversion and the level will look identical.

Apart from finishing the lighting and the exit tunnel I found only one thing that needs fixing - the grate that lets you see into the reactor chamber from the yellow room isn't transparent from below.

Thankyou very much! Aha and yes i just found that while doing a last flythrough.
I've uploaded the 'finished' version now (in level 4 folder).
I kind of ran out of steam designing the last couple of rooms, so i really wanted the red key area to be bigger but I also really just needed to get the thing done before i ground to a halt, (someone make it better please).

Xfing · Post by **Xfing** » Fri Feb 05, 2016 6:27 am

Phozon wrote:
Xfing wrote:Holy cow, that level is really amazing! It looks, feels and plays like something made in 1995 and the atmosphere is TOTALLY Martian. I love every bit of this level. Keep working on it at your leisure and let me know when it's finished, so I can convert it to D2. Nothing will be lost in the conversion and the level will look identical.

Apart from finishing the lighting and the exit tunnel I found only one thing that needs fixing - the grate that lets you see into the reactor chamber from the yellow room isn't transparent from below.
Thankyou very much! Aha and yes i just found that while doing a last flythrough.
I've uploaded the 'finished' version now (in level 4 folder).
I kind of ran out of steam designing the last couple of rooms, so i really wanted the red key area to be bigger but I also really just needed to get the thing done before i ground to a halt, (someone make it better please).

No need to worry about that. It's still level 4 and thus it shouldn't be super long anyway, considering this mission has more levels than the original Descent. The length is just right IMO. (Not to say I'm against longer early levels to break the mold, but that can be level 6 or something). What this level could use, though, is some secrets larger than a single cube. From what I've seen there's a lot of secret doors, but not many contain areas much different from a regular cube, that could use some expansion.

EDIT: Converted the mine to D2. I've uploaded both versions to the Dropbox folder - open them up and compare them, especially to see if all the monitors you placed are the same - I did my best to ensure they were. Also, I fixed some small texture blunders in both versions - nothing serious, but noticeable to an astute eye.

Phozon · Post by **Phozon** » Fri Feb 05, 2016 12:20 pm

Xfing wrote:What this level could use, though, is some secrets larger than a single cube. From what I've seen there's a lot of secret doors, but not many contain areas much different from a regular cube, that could use some expansion.

EDIT: Converted the mine to D2. I've uploaded both versions to the Dropbox folder - open them up and compare them, especially to see if all the monitors you placed are the same - I did my best to ensure they were. Also, I fixed some small texture blunders in both versions - nothing serious, but noticeable to an astute eye.

With the one block secret doors, I was really looking at the original level 10, which has many of those, I think the only multi block secret it has is the secret exit (and the blue key if that counts - I have something like that for the red key anyway). But yes I can see adding a slightly larger secret area, something like in level 1, at the end of the left path.
On my converted level, the only thing I see is that the lights are a lot brighter now (I think too bright, there's hardly any shadow anywhere).
I'll return the criticism for your level 1: I think the exit is far too far from the reactor for the first level of a campaign!

Alter-Fox · Post by **Alter-Fox** » Fri Feb 05, 2016 4:37 pm

Started writing a couple more tracks for the music folder since the DCA2 is still moving at a snail's pace. I'm working on one or maybe two with more of a hip-hop/Phobos influence which should be fun to try and fun to have in the background while you're playing... Can't have all the vocal tracks sounding the same now can we?

Xfing · Post by **Xfing** » Fri Feb 05, 2016 4:58 pm

Phozon wrote: On my converted level, the only thing I see is that the lights are a lot brighter now (I think too bright, there's hardly any shadow anywhere).

Well yeah, that's because I changed the light strength for the regular big square white light from 50% to 100% and then reapplied the settings. Just reapplying the settings would probably have done the trick. You're welcome to rework the lighting to suit your taste.

I'll return the criticism for your level 1: I think the exit is far too far from the reactor for the first level of a campaign!

That's true, it's a bit far. But there are no traps on the way, so it all balances out and still is pretty straightforward. Check out the other levels too, I'm curious of your impressions

Alter-Fox wrote:Started writing a couple more tracks for the music folder since the DCA2 is still moving at a snail's pace. I'm working on one or maybe two with more of a hip-hop/Phobos influence which should be fun to try and fun to have in the background while you're playing... Can't have all the vocal tracks sounding the same now can we?

Sure thing! Damn I'm glad you're such a fast worker when it comes to the music

Alter-Fox · Post by **Alter-Fox** » Fri Feb 05, 2016 6:00 pm

Yeah, Descent 1 had some hip-hop type tracks and I haven't written anything in that style in over a year. It's as good a reason as any.

Xfing · Post by **Xfing** » Sat Feb 06, 2016 6:59 am

I've added suggested themes where I had them in mind to levels that haven't been made yet. These are themes I'd like to see a great deal in the mission somewhere, and I think they suit the suggested slots.

Alter-Fox · Post by **Alter-Fox** » Sat Feb 06, 2016 9:35 am

I may send you a PM with my idea for some "backstory" that might make the briefings a little bit more interesting without adding much length.

BTW, if you're lighting the map in DLE you can change the amount of light that's given off per-texture... primary or secondary. So somebody should be able to go into Phozon's map and get the light levels closer to where he wants them.

Xfing · Post by **Xfing** » Mon Feb 08, 2016 12:05 pm

Alter-Fox wrote:I may send you a PM with my idea for some "backstory" that might make the briefings a little bit more interesting without adding much length.

BTW, if you're lighting the map in DLE you can change the amount of light that's given off per-texture... primary or secondary. So somebody should be able to go into Phozon's map and get the light levels closer to where he wants them.

Sure, go ahead

LightWolf · Post by **LightWolf** » Mon Feb 08, 2016 9:54 pm

Hi.
Recently I've been working on a D1 level using the green texture set, and thus I began to think that I wanted to take on Ceres.

On a side note, the working title is "[PLANET] Storage Depot", and I was wondering if I could maybe factor in that title somehow (maybe "Ceres Military Depot" instead of "Ceres Military Perimeter").

P.S. Something that I've been able to figure out (for all of you wanting to take on a solar system level or a level with solsys doorlights) is that the solsys door lights are exactly 6.175 units wide.

Xfing · Post by **Xfing** » Tue Feb 09, 2016 3:16 am

LightWolf wrote:Hi.
Recently I've been working on a D1 level using the green texture set, and thus I began to think that I wanted to take on Ceres.

On a side note, the working title is "[PLANET] Storage Depot", and I was wondering if I could maybe factor in that title somehow (maybe "Ceres Military Depot" instead of "Ceres Military Perimeter").

P.S. Something that I've been able to figure out (for all of you wanting to take on a solar system level or a level with solsys doorlights) is that the solsys door lights are exactly 6.175 units wide.

- I'm starting to think I'll do Ceres actually. I have a pretty strong vision of it. Or I'll have Naphtha do it with hints as to the texture theme - if he's up to it. I've grown utterly enchanted with his levels recently
- If the level is greenish, maybe it could fit the Uranian slot?
- Depot-like qualities don't collide with any level. Even in D1 levels barely represent what they're supposed to be, so don't worry too much about that.
- Let's see the level, then we'll talk

LightWolf · Post by **LightWolf** » Wed Feb 10, 2016 9:21 pm

I should have it up by Saturday or Sunday at the latest.

P.S. Why is everything (minus levels 2-4) in Solsys on a moon?

P.P.S. Part of the reason for naming it "Ceres Military Depot" is because of the initial inspiration from "Neptune Storage Depot". (Nothing too direct like I have done in levels such as U'denoyr)

Xfing · Post by **Xfing** » Thu Feb 11, 2016 2:54 am

LightWolf wrote:I should have it up by Saturday or Sunday at the latest.

P.S. Why is everything (minus levels 2-4) in Solsys on a moon?

Really? Because it would be somewhat difficult to drill a mine in a gas giant that has no rocky crust? DUH!?

Also, mines beyond Pluto aren't on moons, they're on dwarf planets.

LightWolf · Post by **LightWolf** » Sat Feb 13, 2016 6:55 pm

Duh. The only reason that I asked was because of the Neptunian mine in D1.

Oh, BTW, Here's Ceres. (Made in D1 as opposed to D2 this time)
http://www.enspiar.com/dmdb/viewMission.php?id=1121

I've added some drones and small hulks for something to shoot at. There is a lot of OP gear towards the end to make quick work of the D1L7 boss, which is obviously harder than Zeta Aquilae. And yes, there is a flat wall door. It should actually be sideways, but I couldn't get it to work (it would always snap to its current position) with the lava-border texture. A quick modification to the POG with the one texture rotated at a 90-degree angle should fix the problem.

And to dodge a previously received criticism, the hidden exit is in the Descent style, especially if you consider D1 levels 10, 21, and 24. You should be able to figure out what the red texture behind it is.

(IK that this is a lot of notes) Finally, don't even think about adding any more walls w/o converting to D2. I actually had to remove a secret (it would have been in the floor directly outside the initial door) to account for the wall limit.

Xfing · Post by **Xfing** » Sun Feb 14, 2016 5:53 am

Well, it's an OK level for sure. A bit smallish, but this early in the mission it's fine. The geometry is OK too. I'll hold off on including it right off the bat, though, and see what some others come up with. Ceres is an important level to me and I want to be sure I've got the very best for this slot