Why so Racist

[woodchip]

Someone care to tell me why liberals promote racism? First we have:

Portland Community College has designated April "Whiteness History Month" (WHM), an "educational project" exploring how the "construct of whiteness" creates racial inequality.

OR

The comic actor is facing pressure to bow out as host of the 88th annual Oscars — with less than six weeks to go before the Feb. 28 telecast — over the mounting calls for boycotting the awards in response to the lack of diversity among the Oscar nominees.

Diversity? How do you apportion race to talent?

[callmeslick]

Diversity? How do you apportion race to talent?

are you suggesting that there are no talented actors of color? If so, you are an idiot. It is a completely valid protest.

[Sergeant Thorne]

Black talent matters?

Personally I don't have any respect for these arguments as such. Diversity shouldn't be a goal in-and-of itself, in my mind. Granted not everyone is going to be so fair-minded. The goal is to treat people fairly--equally. So my question would be, "so which actors do you feel are being specifically excluded due to ethnicity?" IMO that needs to the argument right out of the gate. When I hear people addressing "diversity" as such I begin to tune them out. Fairness and equality, not diversity. "Diversity" is the rallying cry of counter-racism, as far as I'm concerned.

[Vander]

I speak for all liberals, and I'll let you in on a secret. We promote racism as a simple yet effective diversion from our scheme to fluoridate the water. My advice to you is to distill your own water. You cannot trust store bought distilled water.

[callmeslick]

I speak for all liberals, and I'll let you in on a secret. We promote racism as a simple yet effective diversion from our scheme to fluoridate the water. My advice to you is to distill your own water. You cannot trust store bought distilled water.

you've let out the secret. Now we have to kill you.

[Tunnelcat]

I speak for all liberals, and I'll let you in on a secret. We promote racism as a simple yet effective diversion from our scheme to fluoridate the water. My advice to you is to distill your own water. You cannot trust store bought distilled water.

Conservatives find cheaper sources of water, proceed to poison a whole city with it and then cover it up and say it wasn't their fault.

[callmeslick]

...and then seek recourse from the Federal Government

[Tunnelcat]

All to save a few dollars.

That's what's wrong with conservatives. If they screwup, it's the public who has to repair that screwup. Heaven forbid they have to take responsibility for their own actions, even though they like to gripe that everyone else should take personal responsibility.

[Vander]

Conservatives find cheaper sources of water

"Cheaper" is a ruse. The liberal media hasn't reported on the great Listerine spill of 2013 in Lake Huron.

And I apologize for derailing. I don't really care for award shows, or their nominations. It's all entirely subjective anyways.

[Spidey]

All to save a few dollars.

That's what's wrong with conservatives. If they screwup, it's the public who has to repair that screwup. Heaven forbid they have to take responsibility for their own actions, even though they like to gripe that everyone else should take personal responsibility.

“Taxpayers” money…those evil basteators.

And since when does anyone in public office, from either party take personal responsibility for screw ups?

And that leads to the obvious stupid question…who pays when liberals screw up? I guess they all remortgage their homes and pay for it themselves…right…

[woodchip]

I speak for all liberals, and I'll let you in on a secret. We promote racism as a simple yet effective diversion from our scheme to fluoridate the water. My advice to you is to distill your own water. You cannot trust store bought distilled water.

Conservatives find cheaper sources of water, proceed to poison a whole city with it and then cover it up and say it wasn't their fault.

TC, you do know that Flint is and was a Democratic run city who ran their finances so far into the ground that one of the things they did was to set up their own water system to save a few sheckels. Of course when it all blew up they turned around and blamed the Governor. How typical.

[callmeslick]

TC, you do know that Flint is and was a Democratic run city who ran their finances so far into the ground that one of the things they did was to set up their own water system to save a few sheckels. Of course when it all blew up they turned around and blamed the Governor. How typical.

sort of a flat out lie by you, Woody(how typical?). Yes, Flint was declared in fiscal danger, but it was the Governor's appointed Republican manager who hatched the water switch, despite data to indicate there might be issues. Try telling the truth. The Governor comes in for appointing that loser, plus, after hearing initial reports, doing ZERO to address the lead problem for 11 months.

[Tunnelcat]

TC, you do know that Flint is and was a Democratic run city who ran their finances so far into the ground that one of the things they did was to set up their own water system to save a few sheckels. Of course when it all blew up they turned around and blamed the Governor. How typical.

Of course they blamed the governor. He appointed the emergency manager, I mean unelected financial dictator, who proceeded to try to save some small change with a water source switch, then ignored the early warnings from residents and the EPA about the bad taste, smell and appearance of the Flint River water after the source was switched. The gov himself ignored the matter long enough to do significant damage to Flint's water infrastructure and the area's children, which now probably requires Federal help to fix that infrastructure AND health care and support for the affected local children, which comes out of ALL our pockets. I guess that's how Snyder figured he could get Flint back in the financial black, by making the Feds pay for it and kill off a few poor children in one stroke.

[woodchip]

Sorry TC, but you are still fishing in the wrong pond. The real bastard was the MI Dept. of Environmental Quality:

In 2015 and 2016, the Michigan DEQ was criticized for its role in the Flint water crisis; agency officials repeatedly dismissed citizens' concerns about water quality in Flint, leading to a delay in addressing lead poisoning in the city's water supply. The DEQ also revised water samples to wrongly indicate that the water was safe, changing the lead-level results from unacceptable to acceptable, delaying action.[17] DEQ Director Dan Wyant acknowledged in October 2015 that the department had failed to follow the relevant federal regulation and had made other errors.[18] The department also initially dismissed a researcher's reports about rising blood lead levels in Flint children.[19] A December 2015 report by the Flint Water Advisory Task Force found that "primary responsibility" for the Flint water crisis lies with the DEQ and that the department had agency "failed in its responsibility" to ensure safe drinking water.[19] Governor Snyder issued an apology, and DEQ director Wyant and DEQ public information officer Brad Wurfel resigned over the affair.[19]

Also this was preventable through treatment:

According to a class-action lawsuit, the state Department of Environmental Quality wasn't treating the Flint River water with an anti-corrosive agent, in violation of federal law. Therefore, the water was eroding the iron water mains, turning water brown.

So if you and slick et al want to blame the Gov. and the appointed mgr, then all you are doing is showing how ignorance and party politics are a bad combo.

[callmeslick]

ignorance and party politics got your state into this mess. That extends to the state DEP.

[Tunnelcat]

Sorry TC, but you are still fishing in the wrong pond. The real bastard was the MI Dept. of Environmental Quality:

In 2015 and 2016, the Michigan DEQ was criticized for its role in the Flint water crisis; agency officials repeatedly dismissed citizens' concerns about water quality in Flint, leading to a delay in addressing lead poisoning in the city's water supply. The DEQ also revised water samples to wrongly indicate that the water was safe, changing the lead-level results from unacceptable to acceptable, delaying action.[17] DEQ Director Dan Wyant acknowledged in October 2015 that the department had failed to follow the relevant federal regulation and had made other errors.[18] The department also initially dismissed a researcher's reports about rising blood lead levels in Flint children.[19] A December 2015 report by the Flint Water Advisory Task Force found that "primary responsibility" for the Flint water crisis lies with the DEQ and that the department had agency "failed in its responsibility" to ensure safe drinking water.[19] Governor Snyder issued an apology, and DEQ director Wyant and DEQ public information officer Brad Wurfel resigned over the affair.[19]

Also this was preventable through treatment:

According to a class-action lawsuit, the state Department of Environmental Quality wasn't treating the Flint River water with an anti-corrosive agent, in violation of federal law. Therefore, the water was eroding the iron water mains, turning water brown.

So if you and slick et al want to blame the Gov. and the appointed mgr, then all you are doing is showing how ignorance and party politics are a bad combo.

It still was a problem started by a emergency manager, someone who was NOT an elected official, someone who WAS appointed by Gov. Snyder and someone who will NEVER be held accountable for his actions. That unelected official decided purely on the basis of cost that he could save Flint a few bucks by switching the water source. THAT'S why it's now Snyder's fault, period.

Yes, the State of Michigan is responsible for it's own local municipality's water quality, until they screw up and poison people that is, THEN the feds usually have to step in. So you're right, Michigan DEQ officials, not Gov. Snyder, altered the tests, then covered up what they found. But wait, Snyder's office was getting reports of high lead in Flint's water 6 months before the issue came to light and it's all revealed in internal emails, so Snyder KNEW. It's both the Michigan DEQ and Gov. Snyder's office who were responsible for this disaster by dropping the ball, stonewalling, then covering it up to hide their culpability. Additionally, nobody in the Michigan government even tried to solve things by ordering Flint's water to be treated with an anti-corrosive chemical once they found out the problem with lead leaching from the pipes either, which would have cost another $100 a day (best estimate, could be more) by the way. In fact, I wonder if the additional treatment would have made Flint's water cost even more than Detroit's and that's why the officials in charge decided to keep things quiet?

http://newswire.net/newsroom/news/00091 ... s-bad.html

http://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-ne ... er-n491481

http://www.cnn.com/2016/01/14/us/flint- ... index.html

As for the EPA knowing about the problem, they were responding to one woman's complaint, who was actually poisoned by lead from her tap water. The EPA was basing things off of a state DEQ limited test of one home, hers. The state blew the EPA off by calling those results an outlier out of 170 homes, even though the EPA still had concerns, as of July, 2015. The EPA memo was leaked before the EPA could even start investigating the issue further, so now every right winger is blaming the feds. What hypocrisy.

http://michiganradio.org/post/leaked-in ... nt-s-water

“Let me start here – anyone who is concerned about lead in the drinking water in Flint can relax,” said Brad Wurfel, spokesman for Michigan’s Department of Environmental Quality.

[woodchip]

Keep trying TC but the Flint city council was the one who decided to pull the plug from using Detroit City water and go it alone:

"That’s not factual information for your readers and listeners. In fact, in the spring of 2013, the Flint City Council, and Mayor Walling, made the decision to switch to Karegnondi, and in the meantime, take some of its water from the Flint River. This was approved at the city council meeting in a 7-1 vote on Monday, March 25, 2013. Their decision was then sent to the emergency manager to approve. In fact, at the time, Flint City Council President Scott Kincaid said “I’ve never been a fan of staying with Detroit.”

Also the financial mgr had hired a engineering firm to look at the water but evidently they didn't look any closer than the DEQ had. So is it still the Governors fault or was it the Democratic city councils fault?

[Tunnelcat]

No so fast. There were a series of emergency managers involved in this mess and they hired the people to run things.

http://www.mlive.com/news/flint/index.s ... al_re.html

Croft, a lifelong resident of Flint, has been in charge of the city's DPW operations since he was appointed to the position by former emergency manager Mike Brown in December 2011.

http://www.mlive.com/news/flint/index.s ... o_spe.html

(Mayor Dayne) Walling said the decision to use river water last year was made by emergency manager Darnell Earley, but the mayor said he was involved in the decision for the city to join the Karegnondi Water Authority in 2013.

Even though many city officials were involved, it was at the behest of these emergency managers who's only concern was to save a buck. Quit trying to protect the great Republican idea of emergency managers. They're unelected and unaccountable. They've pushed and pushed for cuts no matter the consequences and none of these guys have taken any responsibility at all.

And the emergency manager that started it all was this guy, Ed Kurtz, who's now managing Detroit's Public Schools. He's the one who authorized creating a new water district.

http://blavity.com/the-man-responsible- ... c-schools/

Then fast forward to Emergency Manager Darnell Earley. Read the letter he sent to DWSD director Sue McCormick in the same link above. Earley DECLINED McCormick's offer to temporarily keep using DWSD water until Flint's project was completed.

By the way, how many of these emergency managers were there anyway? I've already run into 4 of these bastards that had a hand in this mess. These managers were given extreme unchecked authority for a period of 18 months. However, Snyder would terminate these managers when they had about 30 days left before their term expired, thus circumventing the 18 month time limit. It also circumvented any responsibility, accountability or consistency for any one manager throughout this whole crisis. It's still Snyder's fault.

[woodchip]

I guess TC, the moral of this story is...if you are elected to run a city then do so in a fiscally responsible manner so outsiders don't come in and take over.

[Tunnelcat]

The moral of the story is to not elect Republicans that want to take over as autocrats, who think they know what's best for struggling working people they have nothing in common with, who subvert the will of the people and who pass laws to circumvent democracy.

[woodchip]

What laws were passed that circumvented democracy?

[Tunnelcat]

Specifically, the Republican Emergency Manager Law, P.A. 4, passed at the behest of Governor Snyder. The citizens of Michigan are bringing lawsuits to get the law revoked due to state constitutional reasons, specifically these, from the link.

http://sugarlaw.org/2012/02/law-center- ... nager-law/

1. Suspending home rule, by giving state-appointed managers power to repeal local laws, ordinances, charters and collectively bargained contracts;

2. Effectively eliminating citizens’ rights to vote for and petition local government on matters of local concern;

3. Violating the separation of powers, by allowing the executive branch and its agencies to exercise legislative duties; and

4. Allowing the Legislature to enact unfunded mandates, by using local taxpayer dollars for such purposes as managers’ salaries and staff.

I'm willing to bet if Snyder had been a Democrat and done the same thing, you'd be screaming up and down about the unconstitutionality of these emergency manager laws and calling for his resignation and the repeal of those same laws, because as it appears now, their mistakes are going to cost the state even more than if Flint's water system had been left alone. You'd probably even dream up some rationale that these laws were nothing but socialism taking away our freedoms and rights.

[Spidey]

They sound just like the complaints many states have against the Federal Government.

[callmeslick]

TC todays e-mail releases seem to indicate a complete belittlement of complaints from the citizens of Flint. A sort of 'let them eat cake' attitude, which oozes from folks with no skin in the game.

[woodchip]

Specifically, the Republican Emergency Manager Law, P.A. 4, passed at the behest of Governor Snyder. The citizens of Michigan are bringing lawsuits to get the law revoked due to state constitutional reasons, specifically these, from the link.

http://sugarlaw.org/2012/02/law-center- ... nager-law/

1. Suspending home rule, by giving state-appointed managers power to repeal local laws, ordinances, charters and collectively bargained contracts;

2. Effectively eliminating citizens’ rights to vote for and petition local government on matters of local concern;

3. Violating the separation of powers, by allowing the executive branch and its agencies to exercise legislative duties; and

4. Allowing the Legislature to enact unfunded mandates, by using local taxpayer dollars for such purposes as managers’ salaries and staff.

I'm willing to bet if Snyder had been a Democrat and done the same thing, you'd be screaming up and down about the unconstitutionality of these emergency manager laws and calling for his resignation and the repeal of those same laws, because as it appears now, their mistakes are going to cost the state even more than if Flint's water system had been left alone. You'd probably even dream up some rationale that these laws were nothing but socialism taking away our freedoms and rights.

Great logical thinking. To further flesh out what you are saying, the next time a city faces bankruptcy, they shouldn't ask the state to bail them out (which is why a state appt. mgr. was appointed in the first place). Let the city employee's lose their pensions and lay loads of city employee's off. Maybe then the real blame for a city's woes will be placed where it properly lies.

[Tunnelcat]

TC todays e-mail releases seem to indicate a complete belittlement of complaints from the citizens of Flint. A sort of 'let them eat cake' attitude, which oozes from folks with no skin in the game.

Yeah, Snyder and crew don't live in Flint nor do they have to drink the water, so what do they care.

Great logical thinking. To further flesh out what you are saying, the next time a city faces bankruptcy, they shouldn't ask the state to bail them out (which is why a state appt. mgr. was appointed in the first place). Let the city employee's lose their pensions and lay loads of city employee's off. Maybe then the real blame for a city's woes will be placed where it properly lies.

Even better logical thinking, the original cutting-costs-to-the-bone-idea from those continuous series of emergency manager idiots that created this whole mess is NOW going to cost the state and the feds far more than if they'd just left well enough alone in the first place. I'm even betting that bailing out Flint might have been cheaper in the long run. A far better solution would have been to find a way to bring back business and industry to help with the falling tax base and the unemployment, then there might have been enough to upgrade Flint's water system and bring them out of bankruptcy. It's either that, or the people of Flint have to relocate because their city has been trashed by years of Republican tax cuts for the wealthy, jobs being shipped elsewhere and the innumerable Republican emergency manager screwups. I'm betting the people of Flint can't even afford to move if they wanted to either. They're all poor black people anyway, so lets just let the Republican ideal of dog eat dog capitalism go to work and let them die to solve the problem. I mean, Republicans seem to have no better solutions except to drive people into the ground if they can't get jobs or can't afford to support a community, do they?

[woodchip]

I like how you keep shifting the blame. Flint and its govt are soley to blame for the situation they are in. If they would of run their city fiscally responsibly, they wouldn't be in the straits they are. And just so you know back in the 90's Flint was already of thinking about disconnecting from the Detroit water supply.

[woodchip]

And curiouser it gets:

The Environmental Protection Agency director overseeing a region that includes Flint, Michigan, is stepping down after contaminated water in that city exposed residents to lead poisoning.

EPA Region 5 Administrator Susan Hedman offered her resignation effective Feb. 1, and the offer was accepted, the EPA said in a statement Thursday.

[Tunnelcat]

I see one of the fall guys took the fall. At least they had the courtesy to resign. What about Snyder and his troops of emergency managers? No one's taking any responsibility there I see.

The article you were referring to in your first post woody showed up in our local paper. I sounds like a valid project to me and something that should be studied if this country is going to ever climb out of it's racist leanings and the attitudes of white superiority that flavors American society. Before you knee jerk woody and call this nothing but reverse racism, read what the college wants to discuss. Or are your white sensibilities so insulted that even talking about how to change our national narrative about race is nothing more than white hate speech?

http://www.pcc.edu/about/diversity/casc ... ory-month/

[Spidey]

The issue here is identifying the basic problem as “whiteness” and not the underlying racism that can affect any race.

But I’m sure you have a huge blind spot, seeing how you talk about white men all of the time, with never a mention of other races.

[sigma]

The issue here is identifying the basic problem as “whiteness” and not the underlying racism that can affect any race.

But I’m sure you have a huge blind spot, seeing how you talk about white men all of the time, with never a mention of other races.

But you never say how in 2013 in the U.S. humiliated Americans of any race, locking study visits of Americans to Russia under the program of mutual cooperation, deploying an extensive campaign of slander and threatening Americans interrogations in the FBI in case their trip to Russia.

[Tunnelcat]

The issue here is identifying the basic problem as “whiteness” and not the underlying racism that can affect any race.

But I’m sure you have a huge blind spot, seeing how you talk about white men all of the time, with never a mention of other races.

If you can't understand the point of that PCC college course and discussion, then certainly nothing I can say will alter your mindset and you've closed off your mind. Especially since you're not a female, you definitely won't see anything wrong since you've never experienced being subjugated as a human being because of some immutable trait, like gender or color. Maybe that's what's pissing off white males right now. They are being dethroned as the dominant race in America and now they're playing the victim role. Poor babies.

[Spidey]

I understand the point of the program, but you can’t see the flaw in it.

Yea, how many times do I have to mention I grew up in a black area, and I certainly do know what it is like to be “subjugated as a human being because of some immutable trait”.

Perhaps my childhood gives me a unique perspective on how any majority* can become oppressive regardless of race, where other whites such as yourself have never faced that kind of oppression.

*majority in that area.

[Sergeant Thorne]

I wake up every morning furious that my race no longer dominates.

[Tunnelcat]

I understand the point of the program, but you can’t see the flaw in it.

Yea, how many times do I have to mention I grew up in a black area, and I certainly do know what it is like to be “subjugated as a human being because of some immutable trait”

Perhaps my childhood gives me a unique perspective on how any majority* can become oppressive regardless of race, where other whites such as yourself have never faced that kind of oppression.

*majority in that area.

Yeah, you've said as much before and yes, any group of people can become oppressive when they're in the majority, even blacks. However, there's no flaw in studying white attitudes of dominance in this country since whites are currently having their own issues accepting being currently shoehorned into a lesser station in our society. Maybe whites all need a little self-introspection to learn something about themselves from their own past. Remember, whites have been the majority oppressing group in this country for over 200 years, up until recently and with the exception of yourself Spidey, and ONLY in this country are whites, especially conservatives, getting really angry. I wonder why? Those bunch of lawbreaking morons in Burns, Oregon are just one example.

On that point, answer me this. Why are white Americans, especially Republicans, the angriest group in our society today, both men and women? Is it because they are losing their status, easy life and power, something they've had since the formation of this country, and NOW they're not taking it very well and railing on about it? Do whites still have a sense of superiority and entitlement and it's making them angry because they're no longer the dominant group in our society? Perhaps. No one or group likes to be knocked of their pedestal.

Here's a pretty good analysis from a black perspective, a group of people by the way, that isn't anywhere near as angry as most white Republicans are today. Don't deny it Sergeant Thorne.

http://atlantablackstar.com/2016/01/04/ ... ast-angry/

[Sergeant Thorne]

Anger can come from any number of sources, and be blamed on any number of unrelated objects. I'm sure what you're talking about IS at play with some people, TC, but I don't see any merit in broad-brushing the issue. I don't think it's true of all white males, nor to the same degree in those with whom it is. I'm a white male, and I do not identify to any great degree with other white males (also don't identify with sports team). I tend to identify with anyone who has a certain degree of moral fiber, or is trying to do well/work hard in general. Black, White, Hispanic, Native American, Asian, Indian, Puerto Rican ... it hasn't mattered. When I meet someone who obviously has some depth of character, that really is the only thing that matters. All other differences end up being pretty minor.

[callmeslick]

I wake up every morning furious that my race no longer dominates.

oh, don't be alarmist. We moved on past Neanderthals millennia ago!

[Lothar]

Why are white Americans, especially Republicans, the angriest group in our society today

you don't need to make it complicated. The most publicized and talked-about government actions of the last several years have been against the ideals held by white Republicans. People get upset when they feel the tide moving against them.

During the Bush presidency, Democrats were angry, and proud of it.

[Spidey]

Yup.

Sorry tc…you know I don’t answer loaded questions.