Hold onto your butts.

[Ferno]

I don't even... I can't. I just can't. It's like huh?

http://www.greatlakesprovings.com/car-e ... fumes.html

[woodchip]

Wow, what a wall a text. Did you have a opinion here ferno? Cars are bad so ban them?

[Lothar]

it sounds like they captured car exhaust in a jar and then used it for homeopathy. Uh... is there something of value to be gained here?

[Tunnelcat]

Neither of you 2 get it. We're all poisoning ourselves more and more every time we drive a car or ride in a train or plane. We're all trapped in a suicide jar of our own creation.

[Foil]

[tc, woodchip, I think you didn't scroll far enough.]

Oh, my God...

...that stuff is hilarious.

For this proving the exhaust of a 1962 Jaguar E-Type with no
catalytic converter was gathered in a quart jar containing milk sugar. The jar was capped and allowed to sit for three days. The milk sugar was then ground to make the medicating potency.

...During this proving there was a very clear progression from indignation, anger and frustration, to the feeling of apathy, indifference and depression, and ultimately a desire for eternal sleep.

[snippets of logs:]

3:1 My laptop went crazy! ...

3:Extraction During proving I have been watching black and white “I Love Lucy” reruns constantly. ...

3:1 Time is warp. Things are either fast or slow. ...

1:T I am cold. ...

3:T afternoon: Smelled sulphur on way home. ...

3:T:C1 My tummy is nauseous. ...

3:T:C2 Burping.

It just goes on and on like this.

[Tunnelcat]

Oopsie. That's what I get for skimming. Damn, it's an entire novel! Wore out my mouse wheel getting to that part you were talking about Foil.

[woodchip]

Neither of you 2 get it. We're all poisoning ourselves more and more every time we drive a car or ride in a train or plane. We're all trapped in a suicide jar of our own creation.

Then you should stop exhaling

[Tunnelcat]

Then I'd die and the decomposition gases emanating from my rotting body would poison you.

[Ferno]

is there something of value to be gained here?

It's to show just how far homeopathy will go to convince people that their cures are "good". Car exhaust had me laughing, and then smacking my head on the table.

[Tunnelcat]

Don't get me going about our "medical system". I've had far better luck and treatments with a naturopath than an MD. They actually take the time to listen to your issues and are more willing to do things outside the box than the one pill, one medical problem approach that our current medical system seems to thrive on. They also don't take personal exception to someone looking things up from other sources. With an MD, if you don't have anything that shows up in their vaunted blood tests, your either in perfect health, or a hypochondriac and somaticizer. If they do find something, you get plied with pills that do more harm than good. The MD's today are nothing but glorified pill pushers, not system thinkers and the human body is a very complicated system.

[woodchip]

I was surprised when I went to my hospital of choice for major needs and discovered their urology dept website listed :

Saw Palmetto
Gosha-jinki-gan
Buchu: Buchu

And a few others for treatment for bladder control under holistic treatment. So it seems some MD's are getting informed.

[Tunnelcat]

Not fast enough, although I agree that there are a few bucking the system. However, get diagnosed with the wastebasket syndrome Fibromyalgia and "Chronic Fatigue" you'd instantly see what I mean. I was looking through an old Merck Manual the other day for the fun of it and shook my head. No treatments, you're just depressed and need anti-depressants, the pain is all in your head and palliative care was the only recommendation. Today, the treatment regimen hasn't changed much, except to ply you with a more expensive anti-depressant with more side effects. Sh*t. Morons.

[Ferno]

Not fast enough, although I agree that there are a few bucking the system. However, get diagnosed with the wastebasket syndrome Fibromyalgia and "Chronic Fatigue" you'd instantly see what I mean. I was looking through an old Merck Manual the other day for the fun of it and shook my head. No treatments, you're just depressed and need anti-depressants, the pain is all in your head and palliative care was the only recommendation. Today, the treatment regimen hasn't changed much, except to ply you with a more expensive anti-depressant with more side effects. Sh*t. Morons.

Seriously? My mother has FM/CFS. and it isn't "depression". There's no treatments available because it covers a very wide base. What's next -- telling us autism is just a kid acting out?

you show me, in a medical study, that FM/CFS is depression and I'll shut up. If you can't.. you know what you're in for.

[Tunnelcat]

Seriously. The treatment of choice right now is Lyrica, an antidepressant with a lot of bad side effects and a price tag to match. Since women typically get this syndrome, that's why most women have been blasted off for years by the medical system. We're just a bunch of depressed hysterical females.

Ferno, your mother may want to read Dr. John C. Lowe's thyroid research. After doing a bunch of searching, I found his book and paper, although the book is too expensive for me on Amazon, so I never purchased it. After reading through his research, he's the doctor who's suggesting people go to a naturopath instead of an MD. For me, it's worth a try. The pain gets pretty bad sometimes and my local doc's only recommendation was to throw up his hands and go see a rheumatologist. No thanks. A lot of women I've talked to have had NO success with them and their treatments.

http://www.thyroidscience.com/cases/low ... 9.6.10.htm

[Foil]

...suggesting people go to a naturopath instead of an MD. For me, it's worth a try.

Worth a try in the face of no other options, perhaps.

But be careful - the data shows that naturopathic remedies only work as well as a placebo.

[callmeslick]

this topic reflects the good and bad of our 'information' age. One can, via the Interweb, discover all sorts of suggestions for homeopathy. Most is utter bull★■◆●, some of that is flat-out dangerous, as is rejection of traditional medicine for any reason. Yes, man has used non-traditional medicine for eons, and yes, there is a lot of benefit to be gained from various natural products. The whole marijuana legalization battle has brought to light side benefits of cannabinoid analogs, as well as THC itself. Woody, the short list of urological active homeopathy at your local hospital seems sound, and pretty well researched options are within that list.

[Tunnelcat]

...suggesting people go to a naturopath instead of an MD. For me, it's worth a try.

Worth a try in the face of no other options, perhaps.

But be careful - the data shows that naturopathic remedies only work as well as a placebo.

True Foil. I realize the danger and I refuse to plunge into something without research and thought. I don't like to rush into things blind, and I always take someone's advice with a large grain of salt and a healthy dose of skepticism. But I've endured more dangerous side effects from what's considered "normal" medical treatment for the last 20 years than anything else I've tried. Doctors have nearly killed me several times already. I've now become very, very skeptical of the medical system. Besides, most doctors don't take the time to listen to your complaints, are less willing to think outside the box, are rigid thinkers trapped in their medical school ideology and believe that the magic and expensive big pharma pills solve everything.

[Spidey]

All you have to do is listen to the side affects given during these horrible drug company advertisements, to start wishing for an alternative.

Hell...I swear half the time the side affects are worse than the condition.

[callmeslick]

agree with you completely on that Spidey. Plus, you have my personal favorite: A new drug hits the market, with the warning, "don't take NovaSlick if your allergic to NovaSlick".....as if you know beforehand for a compound that never existed.

[Tunnelcat]

All you have to do is listen to the side affects given during these horrible drug company advertisements, to start wishing for an alternative.

Hell...I swear half the time the side affects are worse than the condition.

I also love how the music darkens and gets ominous and the speech picks up tempo during those "warning sections" of the ad. I hate that they're using boomer music for those ads though. It ruins the songs for me from then on. I need to quit watching the evening news.

[Ferno]

Ferno, your mother may want to read Dr. John C. Lowe's thyroid research. After doing a bunch of searching, I found his book and paper, although the book is too expensive for me on Amazon, so I never purchased it. After reading through his research, he's the doctor who's suggesting people go to a naturopath instead of an MD. For me, it's worth a try. The pain gets pretty bad sometimes and my local doc's only recommendation was to throw up his hands and go see a rheumatologist. No thanks. A lot of women I've talked to have had NO success with them and their treatments.

http://www.thyroidscience.com/cases/low ... 9.6.10.htm

If he's suggesting people visit a naturopath instead of a certified medical doctor, he's a quack. No self-respecting doctor would go 'we can't help you, so turn your back on medical science and talk to a person who will pitch you woo'.

[Krom]

Depends on why the doctor referred to the naturopath in the first place. If they actually believe that bull★■◆●, then definitely a quack. If on the other hand they are taking a shot that the patient will fall under the sometimes extraordinarily powerful placebo effect some of these "naturopath" types can induce in people, then its fine.

It works because a huge portion of how people feel about their physical condition is up to their psychological condition. So even if you use some batshit insane nonsense, as long as it makes them psychologically feel better then they will also feel physically better even if it doesn't do a damn thing to their actual physical condition.

[Tunnelcat]

Ferno, your mother may want to read Dr. John C. Lowe's thyroid research. After doing a bunch of searching, I found his book and paper, although the book is too expensive for me on Amazon, so I never purchased it. After reading through his research, he's the doctor who's suggesting people go to a naturopath instead of an MD. For me, it's worth a try. The pain gets pretty bad sometimes and my local doc's only recommendation was to throw up his hands and go see a rheumatologist. No thanks. A lot of women I've talked to have had NO success with them and their treatments.

http://www.thyroidscience.com/cases/low ... 9.6.10.htm

If he's suggesting people visit a naturopath instead of a certified medical doctor, he's a quack. No self-respecting doctor would go 'we can't help you, so turn your back on medical science and talk to a person who will pitch you woo'.

Perhaps. When we're sick, we start looking for anything to help out of desperation and so far, the medical system has failed me. If this MD had found the solution to Fibromyalgia, you'd think that the medical system would have woken up to his "cure" and started using it or at least researching it by now. Can I ask you this Ferno. Have the medical doctors in Canada helped your mother with her Fibromyalgia at all?

[Ferno]

Depends on why the doctor referred to the naturopath in the first place. If they actually believe that bull★■◆●, then definitely a quack. If on the other hand they are taking a shot that the patient will fall under the sometimes extraordinarily powerful placebo effect some of these "naturopath" types can induce in people, then its fine.

It works because a huge portion of how people feel about their physical condition is up to their psychological condition. So even if you use some batshit insane nonsense, as long as it makes them psychologically feel better then they will also feel physically better even if it doesn't do a damn thing to their actual physical condition.

Sorry, I don't accept that. If he's trying to send a person over to another person to take advantage of the placebo effect, he would, in good conscience, send that person to someone other than a natruopath.

-------------

the medical doctors in Canada helped your mother with her Fibromyalgia at all?

FM is a funny thing. It's one of those all-encompassing syndromes that's hard to pin down. It's similar to how AIDS was treated before they found out the underlying cause was the HIV virus.

[woodchip]

So Ferno, why didn't you just say, "No, Canadian doctors did not help my mother"

[Tunnelcat]

Because our vaunted and exalted American doctors can't help her, or me for that matter, either.

[Ferno]

So Ferno, why didn't you just say, "No, Canadian doctors did not help my mother"

because that's a shitty answer.