Descent 1 1/2

LightWolf · Post by **LightWolf** » Sat Feb 27, 2016 7:43 pm

I got bored the other day, so I decided to build BCMB again.

http://www.enspiar.com/dmdb/viewMission.php?id=1127

I shot for a rather large level, and I think I delivered. There are also a few tricky areas (if you're not careful in the 2nd part of the yellow door you will literally run into unavoidable flawed geometry to make the cris-crossing beams work - you shouldn't be able to see it though (not to mention it adds a slight challenge in following the omega

)) You should also recognize the room at the end of the 1st part of the yellow door from De'gaffa.

Xfing · Post by **Xfing** » Sun Feb 28, 2016 11:22 am

LightWolf wrote:I got bored the other day, so I decided to build BCMB again.

http://www.enspiar.com/dmdb/viewMission.php?id=1127

I shot for a rather large level, and I think I delivered. There are also a few tricky areas (if you're not careful in the 2nd part of the yellow door you will literally run into unavoidable flawed geometry to make the cris-crossing beams work - you shouldn't be able to see it though (not to mention it adds a slight challenge in following the omega )) You should also recognize the room at the end of the 1st part of the yellow door from De'gaffa.

Well, this is indeed a reasonably solid level. I can't take it for Beta Ceti Military Base's slot because I require Naphtha quality for that one, and this isn't quite that. It's still good though. It has its share of problems, namely a dearth of secrets, but it's got its moments of brilliance too. It could go in for some other Beta Ceti slot, and then we'll fix the level's problems at our leisure. Right now though I'll ask others what they think of the level.

LightWolf · Post by **LightWolf** » Tue Mar 01, 2016 4:24 pm

BC16 maybe? I think that the name "Beta Ceti Weapons Research" would sound cool for this level if it doesn't work for BCMB.

Also (not necessarily saying that I'm going to) I think that it's about time that someone worked on a secret level. Anyone agree?

Xfing · Post by **Xfing** » Wed Mar 02, 2016 6:35 am

LightWolf wrote:BC16 maybe? I think that the name "Beta Ceti Weapons Research" would sound cool for this level if it doesn't work for BCMB.

I suppose BC 13 is the best I can do

LightWolf · Post by **LightWolf** » Thu Mar 03, 2016 7:01 pm

Xfing wrote:I suppose BC 13 is the best I can do

BC13? 16 is the level before BCMB.

Alter-Fox · Post by **Alter-Fox** » Thu Mar 03, 2016 8:09 pm

Does that have anything to do with anything?

Xfing · Post by **Xfing** » Fri Mar 04, 2016 2:51 pm

I can see that you really have a strong urge for relevancy, wanting to make levels in some of the most important slots in the mapset. But as I said - those levels require top notch quality. Have you checked out Naphtha's Plutonian Caves? That is the level of intricacy and craftsmanship we need for those slots. Good but not great levels will not do, that's why I'm offering you an earlier slot - it's leave it or take it.

People have the tendency to remember only the endings of situations, so the last four or so slots of the mission will greatly impact what players think of it. Ending on a high note is an absolute must, so these levels need to consistently be top notch quality.

LightWolf · Post by **LightWolf** » Sun Mar 06, 2016 7:08 pm

Then I guess 13 will have to do.

I honestly thought that '13' was a typo.

Xfing · Post by **Xfing** » Tue Mar 08, 2016 7:42 am

Ok, I marked this level as yours.

You have one level left for this mission! Make it count! Maybe one of the Trans-Neptunian dwarf planet levels would interest you?

As for Ceres, think I'll try and build it myself. Haven't done a level in a while and this one interests me particularly due to the color scheme I'll be using.

LightWolf · Post by **LightWolf** » Sun Mar 13, 2016 4:38 pm

Any chance that I can build Io Outpost? (Whether it would work better as Ixion or Ganymede is up to you)

Xfing · Post by **Xfing** » Sun Mar 13, 2016 8:07 pm

LightWolf wrote:Any chance that I can build Io Outpost? (Whether it would work better as Ixion or Ganymede is up to you)

Well you know how the Io mine in D1 looked. Lots of lava and certain particular kinds of stone and you're all good to go. Just make sure not to take too many cues from that level, obviously.

Alter-Fox · Post by **Alter-Fox** » Tue Mar 15, 2016 6:19 am

[DATA EXPUNGED]

Xfing · Post by **Xfing** » Fri Mar 18, 2016 7:35 am

Xfing wrote:
LightWolf wrote:Any chance that I can build Io Outpost? (Whether it would work better as Ixion or Ganymede is up to you)
Well you know how the Io mine in D1 looked. Lots of lava and certain particular kinds of stone and you're all good to go. Just make sure not to take too many cues from that level, obviously.

Plis no spoil!!!!!

Alter-Fox · Post by **Alter-Fox** » Fri Mar 18, 2016 8:34 am

You still won't expect it.
Removed post, but... I need your opinion on if its contents fit with the concept of the mission. If it doesn't, the entire thing could just as well be removed without making a difference. Otherwise I would not have said a thing. Not giving away any other secrets, and there are quite a few creatively-hidden ones on both maps you should, like, try to find.

Xfing · Post by **Xfing** » Fri Mar 18, 2016 5:47 pm

Alter-Fox wrote:You still won't expect it.
Removed post, but... I need your opinion on if its contents fit with the concept of the mission. If it doesn't, the entire thing could just as well be removed without making a difference. Otherwise I would not have said a thing. Not giving away any other secrets, and there are quite a few creatively-hidden ones on both maps you should, like, try to find.

Ok I read ya. I'll check it out right away.

EDIT: Yes, I see absolutely nothing wrong with this kind of secret. It's actually pretty sweet and inventive, and I love the fast pace of the resolution. Not to mention a very similar secret was once used in Counterstrike itself. As for the contents: Megas are absolutely fine by this point in the mission. Descent 2 introduced them way too early which made them seem like nothing special - we'll definitely be delaying them more, but level 30 is well past the border point IMO. The only thing that needs fixing is that the hatch is also locked from the inside, which can create an inescapable situation for the player.

Alter-Fox · Post by **Alter-Fox** » Fri Mar 18, 2016 6:29 pm

I meant the thing that the mega's inside, not the door it was behind, but it sounds like that's ok too.

homeyduh · Post by **homeyduh** » Sat Mar 19, 2016 2:01 pm

I was reading this thread and I'm actually a bit interested in trying this out. I've been mapping for awhile and would start out making some SP maps, but I never really got around to completing any of them. I've more or less been around recently with the MP scene with a few maps. I'm kinda busy right now with another project, but I'd love to have this to fall back on to build something as a break from my other stuff.

I would like to do something in the Sol System. I'm not too particular where in the timeline. Just give me a general theme or guidelines apart from the OP so I can have an idea what to do and I can work from there. Thanks!

Xfing · Post by **Xfing** » Mon Mar 21, 2016 5:13 am

homeyduh wrote:I was reading this thread and I'm actually a bit interested in trying this out. I've been mapping for awhile and would start out making some SP maps, but I never really got around to completing any of them. I've more or less been around recently with the MP scene with a few maps. I'm kinda busy right now with another project, but I'd love to have this to fall back on to build something as a break from my other stuff.

I would like to do something in the Sol System. I'm not too particular where in the timeline. Just give me a general theme or guidelines apart from the OP so I can have an idea what to do and I can work from there. Thanks!

Well, glad to have you! The more designers the merrier.

If you're interested in making a Sol System level, there are some guidelines that might make it easier:
- Either build it as a D1 level - I can handle the conversion to D2 - or start as a D2 level already, but using Pumo's palette and the template POG for the monitors
- Levels on planets and minor planets explored in D1 call for something familiar, but levels on Kuiper Belt objects not visited in the game require a fresh and new theme based around the D1 textures. Something new yet still D1 in feeling. Decide what you want it to be.
- No restrictions on size, though it's still early in the difficulty progression - no Solar System level is going to be excessively difficult - definitely much easier than D1 lvl 12. Keep that in mind when designing the layout
- As far as themes are concerned - Jupiter levels were mostly brown and rocky, Saturn levels had lots of pink in them, Uranus levels were green, Neptunian ones were blue and Plutonian ones were purple. That's the major guideline to go by when designing those levels. As for the additional levels - Haumea has to be primarily based on the light gray of the Moon's levels, Makemake should be pink like Titan Mine from D1 and apart from that, I don't have much of an idea. You're free to try whatever you feel like doing.

Good luck and have fun

homeyduh · Post by **homeyduh** » Mon Mar 21, 2016 2:40 pm

Ok cool. Has anyone taken Ixion outpost? I like the name because my fav Aeon from Final Fantasy X was Ixion. Is there a D1 level that corresponds to it? I haven't played D1 SP in awhile, but I'll go ahead and check to see if there's something I can base my level on the general idea given there. I personally like employing many 6DoF options, without being too conceptual or abstract in design. This is a 6DoF game, not your standard FPS so might as we take advantage of the options XD

Xfing · Post by **Xfing** » Mon Mar 21, 2016 7:36 pm

homeyduh wrote:Ok cool. Has anyone taken Ixion outpost? I like the name because my fav Aeon from Final Fantasy X was Ixion. Is there a D1 level that corresponds to it? I haven't played D1 SP in awhile, but I'll go ahead and check to see if there's something I can base my level on the general idea given there. I personally like employing many 6DoF options, without being too conceptual or abstract in design. This is a 6DoF game, not your standard FPS so might as we take advantage of the options XD

Nope, there was no Ixion in D1. At the time the game was made Pluto was considered a planet and was the only known large trans-neptunian object. If you feel like designing it, go ahead!

EDIT: Read up on Ixion here if you need inspiration: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/28978_Ixion

homeyduh · Post by **homeyduh** » Tue Mar 22, 2016 1:22 pm

Awesome! Thanks for the link! Now I know that the planetoid is moderately red in color and will play with that. In the "See also" section, I read about another planetoid called Chaos. It just sounds awesome XD Will get started when I get a chance.

Xfing · Post by **Xfing** » Tue Mar 22, 2016 5:23 pm

homeyduh wrote:Awesome! Thanks for the link! Now I know that the planetoid is moderately red in color and will play with that. In the "See also" section, I read about another planetoid called Chaos. It just sounds awesome XD Will get started when I get a chance.

It's way too early to call it, but I'm not excluding the possibility of adding even more level slots to the fold at a later date, which could make room for remaining named probable dwarf planets such as Chaos, Salacia or Varda. But the mission's level count target is ginormous as it is and it's gonna be long before we fill in the blanks as it is, sooo

homeyduh · Post by **homeyduh** » Tue Mar 22, 2016 5:53 pm

True story. I'm partial to the dwarf, 20000 Varuna though...just my 2 cents lol that's in case we ever do add more levels. Will get started on this tonight.

A cold, red planet...will be interesting to try to do without making it look like it's full of lava or something.

homeyduh · Post by **homeyduh** » Tue Mar 22, 2016 11:46 pm

Just got a real cool idea for a Post-Sol Boss level if you want to pen me in for something there too. I should have time to put in tomorrow on at least one level. I've never done a boss level before, but I have an idea to make it epic AF! If I can get the triggers and the boys appearing to all work right, it'll be beautiful :') I don't think it'll last-level good, but I think you guys will appreciate the creativity.

Xfing · Post by **Xfing** » Wed Mar 23, 2016 4:57 am

homeyduh wrote:True story. I'm partial to the dwarf, 20000 Varuna though...just my 2 cents lol that's in case we ever do add more levels.

We do have a Varuna level though, it precedes Ixion and contains a boss

We don't have a Varda level. The names are similar, but the dwarf planets are different objects. Varda is also quite a bit smaller.

Also, I think the "somewhat reddish" objects should use the pink texture rather than the red one. There is also quite a pretty orange texture that was drastically underused (if ever at all) in D1, and it could use some exposure. I used it quite a bit in my Sedna level, though I also added in some D2 stuff to that level - my rationale was that since the world is so remote, it can somewhat detach from the rules

Anyway, in the Solar System the only bodies that seem to merit the red textures are Mars and Sedna, which is the second reddest known body.

homeyduh wrote:Just got a real cool idea for a Post-Sol Boss level if you want to pen me in for something there too. I should have time to put in tomorrow on at least one level. I've never done a boss level before, but I have an idea to make it epic AF! If I can get the triggers and the boys appearing to all work right, it'll be beautiful :') I don't think it'll last-level good, but I think you guys will appreciate the creativity.

That is sweet to hear. By all means, be my guest. Just make sure the boss level you choose (I'm assuming you're referring to the Counterstrike portion) fits the theme of the world it takes place on and it'll all be good.

Xfing · Post by **Xfing** » Sun Mar 27, 2016 3:52 am

Started working on Ceres the other day. I'm a slow worker, but generally once I start, keeping working on a mine 'til it's finished isn't much of a problem.

With Ceres I decided to go for a starting area highly reminescent of D1L1 for some reason, I just felt compelled to do it. The resemblance is strong, but the area is a bit smaller and the cubes are aligned differently. The remaining parts of the level are going to be very different though, with a large, central hub area being the most notable feature. The color scheme is like what I described before - basically what if you could make Puuma Sphere with D1 textures. I'm making the level in a D1 version first, then I'll convert it. Not sure if I can handle the boss area to my satisfaction though, in which case I might ask a willing third party to help me out with that - I don't care about taking credit for the entire level as much as the end product being as good as possible.

So yeah, Ceres should be ready in a few weeks tops.

homeyduh · Post by **homeyduh** » Sun Mar 27, 2016 3:18 pm

Good to hear. I have maybe 25% of Ixion done. I completed the pre-blue door section and am going to proceed to the blue door etc after a brief break. I think it has a good D1 vibe to it.

LightWolf · Post by **LightWolf** » Sun Mar 27, 2016 5:19 pm

Io is done.

http://www.enspiar.com/dmdb/viewMission.php?id=1148

Unlike Ceres, you don't get a free quad 4 laser. Instead, you get a complementary regular 2, and have to find the rest in a secret. You might also recognize the key mechanics.

Xfing · Post by **Xfing** » Mon Mar 28, 2016 3:37 am

LightWolf wrote:Io is done.

http://www.enspiar.com/dmdb/viewMission.php?id=1148

Unlike Ceres, you don't get a free quad 4 laser. Instead, you get a complementary regular 2, and have to find the rest in a secret. You might also recognize the key mechanics.

This level... well. It would be good as a homage level, as it bears some crucial similarities to Io Sulfur Mine. We can't have that in the mission though. Both the initial hub and the reactor area draw heavily from Io.

Also, it might have been my oversight for agreeing to an Io level, but level 6 is actually supposed to take place on Ganymede. D1 didn't even explore all the Galilean satellites, and here's our chance to rectify that. So yeah, give it another shot and make something altogether new.

Alter-Fox · Post by **Alter-Fox** » Mon Mar 28, 2016 7:49 am

Also why are you still posting on DMDB where anyone could get spoilers if your map makes it?
Have you been expecting it not to since you started posting these? Then why are you still doing it?
Have some confidence, man. It'll help your ability. Don't post them publicly until after they've been rejected

. Then you can re-title them and have a mediocre mission set that's already made and nobody's played.

Xfing · Post by **Xfing** » Mon Mar 28, 2016 8:18 am

Alter-Fox wrote:Also why are you still posting on DMDB where anyone could get spoilers if your map makes it?
Have you been expecting it not to since you started posting these? Then why are you still doing it?
Have some confidence, man. It'll help your ability. Don't post them publicly until after they've been rejected . Then you can re-title them and have a mediocre mission set that's already made and nobody's played.

Totally this. No idea why you don't just make a mission set. You've started on several already but make submissions to this mission more than those - actually exclusively to this mission afaik. With your speed you could make a 20-level mission pack in two months or something.

Alter-Fox · Post by **Alter-Fox** » Mon Mar 28, 2016 10:07 am

Anyway, keep in mind this time whether you make it or not, that's it and we're not taking anything else from you.
Try to go out on a high note.

Xfing · Post by **Xfing** » Fri Apr 01, 2016 11:26 am

Well, 282 segments of Ceres done! It's coming along much faster than I expected. And I might have enlisted Naphtha's help for the boss room, which is granted to make the level at least 69% more awesome

Alter-Fox · Post by **Alter-Fox** » Fri Apr 01, 2016 1:28 pm

Ya know, I just remembered that first secret level in Descent 1 was supposed to have been on Ceres.
Also level 7 of Descent 3, but I'm not sure if you'd be counting that in the way of colour schemes.

They were both mainly grey and black.

Xfing · Post by **Xfing** » Fri Apr 01, 2016 1:48 pm

Alter-Fox wrote:Ya know, I just remembered that first secret level in Descent 1 was supposed to have been on Ceres.
Also level 7 of Descent 3, but I'm not sure if you'd be counting that in the way of colour schemes.

They were both mainly grey and black.

Really? I thought that D1S1 was described only as taking part "in the Asteroid Belt". S2 or S3 (can't remember - it's a hassle to access the briefings) was named to be on Eunomia, but apart from that we got no names.

And my color scheme is directly inspired by the artist's impression I appropriated as the briefing slide. Clearly it had been created way before Dawn arrived at Ceres, but it impressed the crap out of me, even though it isn't realistic. Ceres is tan in color, not greenish. But tan is such a boring color, only Vertigo and some Quartzon fragments made that texture work IMO.

In fact, in light of us knowing exactly what Ceres looks like, I think we probably should reconsider that briefing slide and use one closer to the truth. But I ain't changing the color scheme - I think it looks pretty cool, and there wasn't any like this anywhere in D1. A new object warrants an altogether new scheme IMO. The texturing is one of the things I really liked about Revenge O' Dravis - it really did make proper use of D1's own vast pool of sweet textures that wasn't explored to the fullest in D1. Of course it stands to reason since Naphtha was in charge of the texturing there, and he's amazing with textures.

Naphtha · Post by **Naphtha** » Sat Apr 02, 2016 2:03 am

Well, the themes in that set (moonbase, fire, green/alien, ice, "desert"/mineral and purple/virus) were all Dravis's idea from the start. I was more on board for supplying detail in some parts to make things look a bit more orderly without changing the cube structure.

Xfing · Post by **Xfing** » Sat Apr 02, 2016 2:36 am

Naphtha wrote:Well, the themes in that set (moonbase, fire, green/alien, ice, "desert"/mineral and purple/virus) were all Dravis's idea from the start. I was more on board for supplying detail in some parts to make things look a bit more orderly without changing the cube structure.

Be that as it may, when I got to the credits roll and I saw you there, I was like "well, of course!"

Alter-Fox · Post by **Alter-Fox** » Sat Apr 02, 2016 7:38 am

Tell ya what, I'll go to overload chat and ask Matt or Mike themselves if S1 was meant to be on Ceres.

Come to think of it I don't remember where I heard it, all I remember is it wasn't in a dream.

I'll ask them about Europa and why it was a fire level too...

LightWolf · Post by **LightWolf** » Sat Apr 02, 2016 2:49 pm

Alter-Fox wrote:You've started on several [missions] already but make submissions to this mission more than those - actually exclusively to this mission afaik.

I did finish "Icikal Caverns" for Quantum. (You should find it a little farther down in the DLS)

Alter-Fox wrote:With your speed you could make a 20-level mission pack in two months or something.

I actually have a 24+6-level slowly coming along, along with a 4+1-level (partially for practice with weapon balance, which I'm not really that good at)
The reason that the 24-level is coming along so slowly is mostly because of the powerups.

Xfing · Post by **Xfing** » Mon Apr 04, 2016 5:04 pm

LightWolf wrote: I actually have a 24+6-level slowly coming along, along with a 4+1-level (partially for practice with weapon balance, which I'm not really that good at)
The reason that the 24-level is coming along so slowly is mostly because of the powerups.

Welp, looking forward to it!