Descent 1 1/2

homeyduh · Post by **homeyduh** » Sun May 08, 2016 9:04 am

Haumea is now up in the Dropbox in the Level 15 folder. Hope you guys like it!

Xfing · Post by **Xfing** » Sun May 08, 2016 11:13 am

homeyduh wrote:Haumea is now up in the Dropbox in the Level 15 folder. Hope you guys like it!

Oopsie, looks like the PIG is wrong and you forgot to put the old textures back in after the conversion

EDIT: Some D1 textures actually seem to be in, but the lunar gray got replaced by the other gray rock indiscriminately - considerin both appear in the mine pre-conversion, you should probably convert the level again and ask DLE to convert the lunar gray into something different, then you'll be able to change up that texture more easily. Also, the spider monitors need to be changed to the impromptu version I scraped up for the POG, otherwise their breaking animation is horrible. And make sure you use descent.pig, not groupa.pig for the conversion.

Kaizerwolf · Post by **Kaizerwolf** » Sun May 08, 2016 11:16 am

Haumea looks fantastic. Probably the coolest approach to/reactor room I've ever flown through. I saw a few misaligned floors and walls here and there, I can maybe fix those up sometime if you want. The other thing is, the grates surrounding the reactor are only one sided walls; you can see clear through the other sides of the cage.

Xfing · Post by **Xfing** » Sun May 08, 2016 11:44 am

Kaizerwolf wrote:Haumea looks fantastic. Probably the coolest approach to/reactor room I've ever flown through. I saw a few misaligned floors and walls here and there, I can maybe fix those up sometime if you want. The other thing is, the grates surrounding the reactor are only one sided walls; you can see clear through the other sides of the cage.

This is correct, I can verify this.

homeyduh · Post by **homeyduh** » Sun May 08, 2016 12:05 pm

I did the one side grates because the reactor was having trouble shooting me lol

I could make it normal. I'll go ahead and fix the textures too. Yeah, when I was editing the textures, I accidentally clicked GroupA, but I couldn't change it to Descent.PIG

Thanks for the praise though

Xfing · Post by **Xfing** » Sun May 08, 2016 12:18 pm

homeyduh wrote:I did the one side grates because the reactor was having trouble shooting me lol I could make it normal. I'll go ahead and fix the textures too. Yeah, when I was editing the textures, I accidentally clicked GroupA, but I couldn't change it to Descent.PIG

Thanks for the praise though

Drop me a PM when you're done, I wanna try something out and see what you think about it, but I need the ready D2 level for it

LightWolf · Post by **LightWolf** » Sun May 08, 2016 5:15 pm

I saw a story about it, and I think you should replace Kuiper Belt Espionage Facility with S/2015 (136472) 1 Espionage Facility. When I first heard of it, I thought that it would be a pretty cool name for a secret level.

S/2015 (136472) 1 was the recently-discovered moon of Makemake. (If you do this, then there should for sure be an alt. exit in Makemake Mining Shaft)

homeyduh · Post by **homeyduh** » Sun May 08, 2016 10:36 pm

Xfing wrote:
homeyduh wrote:I did the one side grates because the reactor was having trouble shooting me lol I could make it normal. I'll go ahead and fix the textures too. Yeah, when I was editing the textures, I accidentally clicked GroupA, but I couldn't change it to Descent.PIG

Thanks for the praise though
Drop me a PM when you're done, I wanna try something out and see what you think about it, but I need the ready D2 level for it

What are you gonna try?! O.O

Xfing · Post by **Xfing** » Mon May 09, 2016 2:00 am

homeyduh wrote:
Xfing wrote:
homeyduh wrote:I did the one side grates because the reactor was having trouble shooting me lol I could make it normal. I'll go ahead and fix the textures too. Yeah, when I was editing the textures, I accidentally clicked GroupA, but I couldn't change it to Descent.PIG

Thanks for the praise though
Drop me a PM when you're done, I wanna try something out and see what you think about it, but I need the ready D2 level for it

What are you gonna try?! O.O

Nothing evil, you'll see

Kaizerwolf · Post by **Kaizerwolf** » Mon May 09, 2016 7:35 pm

Two questions, since it's been a minute since I started a new map with the custom pogs.

1. Should I set level 29 (Salt Distillation Facility) to the ice.pig file?
2. What custom POG goes with that pig?

homeyduh · Post by **homeyduh** » Mon May 09, 2016 10:25 pm

haumea has been updated

Xfing · Post by **Xfing** » Tue May 10, 2016 3:32 am

Kaizerwolf wrote:Two questions, since it's been a minute since I started a new map with the custom pogs.

1. Should I set level 29 (Salt Distillation Facility) to the ice.pig file?
2. What custom POG goes with that pig?

1. It's in Limefrost Spiral, so yes
2. D1GR4.POG

Xfing · Post by **Xfing** » Tue May 10, 2016 5:39 am

homeyduh wrote:haumea has been updated

Looks like you still couldn't manage to get descent.pig to work. Oh, no harm done. I'd like to tell you something anyway.

I took the last D1 version you submitted and made those changes I told you about:

- shifted everything to one plane while maintaining the slanted slope tunnel beyond the blue door
- had to truncate/transform some areas to make sure there are no collisions
- likewise had to lengthen some tunnels
- fixed torsion on some doors (they were twisted a few degrees relative to what they should be)
- fixed texturing problems, gave doors appropriate background textures like the room they're in

Now it looks all nice and tidy on the automap, at no noticeable cost to gameplay and feeling (though there are some twisted cubes when the sloped area meets the side areas, which were shifted to the main plane). I still have a problem with not being able to shoot through the grate in the hostage cell from the inside, but I'll fix this later. The level is not converted yet - I can do it myself to save you the trouble but first I need you to play through the level and see if you're comfortable with the changes I made. It's in the same folder as your file and is called haumea_alt.

Feedback from others on the changes is also welcome!

Sirius · Post by **Sirius** » Sat May 14, 2016 12:25 am

homeyduh wrote:I did the one side grates because the reactor was having trouble shooting me lol I could make it normal.

I know I'm a bit late, but if you want to cheat I'd recommend making the reverse side illusion rather than just not being there at all. Though I think some players would get a little annoyed with that regardless - it's probably safer to position the grate textures such that there are gaps over the reactor's gunpoints.

Xfing · Post by **Xfing** » Sat May 14, 2016 4:30 am

Sirius wrote:
homeyduh wrote:I did the one side grates because the reactor was having trouble shooting me lol I could make it normal.
I know I'm a bit late, but if you want to cheat I'd recommend making the reverse side illusion rather than just not being there at all. Though I think some players would get a little annoyed with that regardless - it's probably safer to position the grate textures such that there are gaps over the reactor's gunpoints.

No solution is really optimal here. I'd go with a nicely aligned grate from both sides to sacrifice the reactor's reach for believability and architectural robustness. There's gonna be plenty of robots in that room due to its size, so it's not such a big deal.

Alternatively, we could just remove 2 of the grates on the sides of the matcens, to provide the player with a tactical decision - to attack efficiently from a threatened position or attack from relative safety but with more difficult aiming.

homeyduh · Post by **homeyduh** » Fri May 20, 2016 12:12 pm

Xfing wrote:
Sirius wrote:
homeyduh wrote:I did the one side grates because the reactor was having trouble shooting me lol I could make it normal.
I know I'm a bit late, but if you want to cheat I'd recommend making the reverse side illusion rather than just not being there at all. Though I think some players would get a little annoyed with that regardless - it's probably safer to position the grate textures such that there are gaps over the reactor's gunpoints.
No solution is really optimal here. I'd go with a nicely aligned grate from both sides to sacrifice the reactor's reach for believability and architectural robustness. There's gonna be plenty of robots in that room due to its size, so it's not such a big deal.

Alternatively, we could just remove 2 of the grates on the sides of the matcens, to provide the player with a tactical decision - to attack efficiently from a threatened position or attack from relative safety but with more difficult aiming.

I like that idea good sir. Just need to give the bot makers more triggers in that case

Xfing · Post by **Xfing** » Sat May 21, 2016 11:04 am

homeyduh wrote: I like that idea good sir. Just need to give the bot makers more triggers in that case

That'll be up to you, then. But I've also received some feedback about the texturing from Alter-Fox so I'll correct these things first and then I'll let you know. This can probably wait until after the conversion.

EDIT: Done the fixes. I'll convert the level tomorrow or something.

LightWolf · Post by **LightWolf** » Sat May 21, 2016 6:14 pm

LightWolf (a long time ago) wrote: I actually have a 4+1-level [mission in building].

It's practically finished, except for weapons.
If anyone who actually has some decent skill with weapon balance wants to help, just shoot me a PM and I will get you a copy ASAIC.

I'm posting here because it's not quite ready for its own forum yet.

Alter-Fox · Post by **Alter-Fox** » Sat May 21, 2016 6:19 pm

Yes it is. Don't derail.
If nothing else make one thread for it now and another when it is ready.

Xfing · Post by **Xfing** » Mon May 23, 2016 2:47 am

Ok, Haumea converted to D2. You can make those matcen trigger changes in the final room at your leisure, homeyduh

EDIT: Guess what, it probably won't be necessary after all. Lowering the reactor to make it on around the level of the player largely solves the problem - most of its shots make it through the grates, so it's still a threat. I therefore restored all the grates. Let's not worry about the matcens, we'll be putting regular robots in there as well after all.

Alter-Fox · Post by **Alter-Fox** » Mon May 23, 2016 9:18 am

Honestly I still like the tactical decision angle.
It means you can play the map differently on your second playthrough.

Xfing · Post by **Xfing** » Mon May 23, 2016 1:24 pm

Well we could probably go with it, but it's really hard to choose a good wall, given the geometry. A solid wall with those square grates in it as a secondary won't do due to the shape of the segment's wall.

We could make a small exception and use the mesh grate from D2 (metl146). It's a very universal and helpful texture from a utilitarian point of view. Although its ubiquity in D2 contributes greatly to setting D2 apart from D1 atmospherically, since it's absent in D1 - for all intents and purposes the texture belongs in D1, as it is intrinsically part of for example exit01, where it covers the inner section of the metal panel. The same grate also functions in the exit door as well as door14, seen when they open. D2 only took this concept and evolved it further, into the standalone texture, the grated door34 and door32, which wouldn't look out of place in a D1 level at all.

So yeah, these are my mental gymnastics to convince myself it's acceptable to use the grate for the reactor. It's only one instance and I don't think it would break the character of the level, and it would benefit gameplay greatly.

I used two instances of door34 in my Eris level for example - in both cases it was dictated by how it would feel inappropriate to have the regular door of the level there (door14) due to how it opens in all directions, while in some directions there wasn't enough wall to disappear into - this was Alter-Fox's feedback. So I simply replaced these doors with the grated door and had it open horizontally rather than vertically (both variants were present in Parallax levels I think) which solved this problem.

We could also think of the fact that these levels take place on worlds not featured in First Strike, so minor, slight divergences from the "100% D1" rule might be pardonable in case of these particular levels

Xfing · Post by **Xfing** » Sat May 28, 2016 2:18 am

Ok - replaced the wall with the mesh grate, left the reactor open matcen-side and altered the geometry a tiny bit to better accomodate the reactor (the D1 reactors only look good if they've got cubes both below and above them due to the protruding tube).

homeyduh, you can now add those additional matcen triggers if you feel like it

LightWolf · Post by **LightWolf** » Tue Jun 07, 2016 11:59 am

OK, with a project (mostly) off my plate, I decided to attempt Varuna.
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0BwhA9 ... GZBcV91bFU
(Notice where it does NOT go.

)

I know it fits Makemake's texture scheme better, but I guess it's too late anyway. If it is too short, I know where I can make it longer at the expense of the concept for that room.

The boss arena should seem familiar (and I got rid of the parts that received negative feedback), leaving a perfect little area for the D1 Level 7 Quartzon boss.

I hope you like it

Alter-Fox · Post by **Alter-Fox** » Tue Jun 07, 2016 5:24 pm

How many slots have you got left Lightwolf?

Xfing · Post by **Xfing** » Tue Jun 07, 2016 6:25 pm

Alter-Fox wrote:How many slots have you got left Lightwolf?

I guess that would be the last one. I'll check it out in the morning, gotta get some sleep like, now

Xfing · Post by **Xfing** » Wed Jun 08, 2016 3:33 am

LightWolf wrote: I know it fits Makemake's texture scheme better, but I guess it's too late anyway.

Nah, actually it doesn't. Makemake is supposed to be pink, not purple. Instead the level feels very Plutonian. Purple is in general the hallmark of Pluto/Charon levels in Descent.

If it is too short, I know where I can make it longer at the expense of the concept for that room.

What is too short? You don't mean the winding corridor that leads to the boss room, do you? Because that is way too long actually. What is too short is the level, once again a Maximum or even Vignette-sized effort at best. We're making full-sized levels here mate, even the super-short levels like 1 and 2 have tons of areas more than this here does. I believe I mentioned more than thrice that the levels are supposed to be big.

The boss arena should seem familiar (and I got rid of the parts that received negative feedback), leaving a perfect little area for the D1 Level 7 Quartzon boss.

Yeah, the boss area itself is quite decent, and has the potential to be memorable. Too bad the level around it feels like a small afterthought at best. I mean the geometry is passable and has that crass D1 feel to it, but I can see this took a few hours to make at best. Except the room with the bulbous rock in the middle, which looks a bit too much like the one from D1L7.

The level needs at least 4x as many cubes as it has now. No idea how you can present us with something like this after some of your levels which made the cut actually. Perhaps you need to finally see what standards are expected on the examples of levels by other contributors. Drop me a PM with your mail address, I'll give you access to download and check out the files on Dropbox so you can see what to strive for.

Alter-Fox · Post by **Alter-Fox** » Wed Jun 08, 2016 9:20 am

I'm not sure that's such a good idea. We've been going through this with him in one form or another since he started last year.

Lightwolf doesn't want to listen to us and he thinks the guidelines don't apply to him. He should be kicked off now -- especially if he's still copying from other maps. If we haven't already, we're not going to convince him to put effort in.
You know me well enough to know I'm not one to say these things lightly.

Xfing · Post by **Xfing** » Wed Jun 08, 2016 9:37 am

Alter-Fox wrote:I'm not sure that's such a good idea. We've been going through this with him in one form or another since he started last year.

Lightwolf doesn't want to listen to us and he thinks the guidelines don't apply to him. He should be kicked off now -- especially if he's still copying from other maps. If we haven't already, we're not going to convince him to put effort in.
You know me well enough to know I'm not one to say these things lightly.

Well you might be right, it's been plenty long indeed.

LightWolf · Post by **LightWolf** » Thu Jun 16, 2016 11:59 am

After realizing that the whole scrap-and-restart tactic wasn't working, I decided to fix up a few designs.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BwhA94 ... sp=sharing

Changes:
- Removed the 100% original, common concept that was the dome room and replaced it with a slightly longer area that includes a hostage cell
- Increased the size of the yellow door by adding a couple rooms beyond it
- Decreased size of the red door tunnel
- Fixed the secret teleporter alternate exit.

Notes:
- There is a gopher chase segment in the blue door - don't be fooled

- The blue door also has a seemingly useless tunnel with a mega missile in it - it is meant to be filled with weapons
- I had to use some of Descent's classic secret style (if you don't find any of such secrets, then shame on you

)
- (I'm not talking about cube structures, but their creative use of 14 secret doors in more than 14 wall textures)

Enjoy!

Xfing · Post by **Xfing** » Sat Jun 18, 2016 11:41 am

Good effort, but the improvements you made are just a drop in an ocean. The level is still not up to par and still too short. I think we'll pass on this one if this is the best you can do. You could use it for some mission of yours though, which I encourage you to do. I'd rather get content from some more established mappers for the remainder of this project.

LightWolf wrote: - Removed the 100% original, common concept that was the dome room and replaced it with a slightly longer area that includes a hostage cell

Are you being passive-aggressive here, or just ironic? Hard to tell, since "100% original" and "common" are kinda mutually exclusive, sooo...

Xfing · Post by **Xfing** » Fri Jun 24, 2016 6:07 am

Ok, just wanted to let y'all know that I'll be gone for the next 2 months or so, with limited access to the net. I might not be able to chime in very often, if at all. Alter-Fox will be keeping an eye on the thread, so if there are any level submissions in the meantime, PM them to him.

Cheers and beers

Alter-Fox · Post by **Alter-Fox** » Fri Jun 24, 2016 9:26 am

I'll clear out my inbox some more so I can accept them.

...
My reign of terror begins NOW!

LightWolf · Post by **LightWolf** » Fri Jun 24, 2016 11:45 am

Alter-Fox wrote:My reign of terror begins NOW!

Run for your lives!

Alter-Fox · Post by **Alter-Fox** » Sat Jun 25, 2016 10:35 am

MUHAHAhaha.

LightWolf · Post by **LightWolf** » Thu Jul 07, 2016 10:15 pm

Anyone gonna build a secret level yet?

Alter-Fox · Post by **Alter-Fox** » Fri Jul 08, 2016 9:11 am

Those are probably best saved for last in a project this big.

Xfing · Post by **Xfing** » Mon Jul 11, 2016 11:50 pm

Just wanted to say that my access to the net is relatively free, so if anyone's got any submissions, feel free to send them over. No Descent game on my phone though, so I won't be able to assess the level, plus editing the OP might be a little cumbersome for the time being :p

But if you're a good and established mapper, some screenshots (along with one of the automap) will be sufficient for my a-ok.

Alter-Fox · Post by **Alter-Fox** » Tue Jul 12, 2016 1:09 pm

And editing the OP is the one part of this I can't do, like, unless somebody makes me a moderator.

Which isn't gonna happen.

LightWolf · Post by **LightWolf** » Tue Jul 12, 2016 10:46 pm

Xfing wrote:No Descent game on my phone though...

I actually posted a suggestion on the Rebirth forum to fix this, and so far the support is 3 in extreme favor and 1 undecided.