On saving your child

[woodchip]

A mother finds a intruder in her daughters bedroom. She pulls out a gun and kills the guy. Now I shudder to think what would of happened if she wasn't armed. I'm sure slick will be of the opinion that all she had to do was pull out her cell phone and call 911 instead as we all know that the police would of been there instantly

[callmeslick]

links, and do you really want to compete with the list of kids using mommy's gun to kill a sibling(which happened just this weekend in New Jersey)?Some child saved, three others shot.....that's the tradeoff you are so proud of. Attaboy, what an American hero you are.

[callmeslick]

yup, nothing like a mother's love and a ready weapon:
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nationa ... -1.2687929


note, my posts come with links.

[callmeslick]

which is why the SCOTUS found this a perfectly acceptable restriction on the rights in the 2nd Amendment:
http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/court- ... li=BBnb7Kz

[Tunnelcat]

links, and do you really want to compete with the list of kids using mommy's gun to kill a sibling(which happened just this weekend in New Jersey)?Some child saved, three others shot.....that's the tradeoff you are so proud of. Attaboy, what an American hero you are.

Since this happened in my neck of the woods, here's your link slick. And to add my 2 cents, I'd have done the same thing if I was carrying and I walked in on an intruder in one of my kid's bedrooms. If I had kids, my gun sure wouldn't be accessible to anyone but me either.

http://www.kgw.com/news/local/portland- ... /256234379

[callmeslick]

apparently, TC, far easier to say than to do, at least for far too many citizens.

[Tunnelcat]

Slick, the world has become a dangerous place. The cops are spread thin and there are too many people around now who want to take your things and who will not hesitate to attack you and/or take your life in order to take what they want. If a stranger was in my house and he came at me and I was armed, I'd shoot the bastard, no questions asked. If he ran away, that's a whole different matter. You don't shoot a fleeing person in the back.

[callmeslick]

Slick, the world has become a dangerous place. The cops are spread thin and there are too many people around now who want to take your things and who will not hesitate to attack you and/or take your life in order to take what they want.

and yet, in terms of numeric instances and per capita rates, all measures for violent crime are down, nationwide and have been going down for over a decade and a half. So, just maybe it's your perception which has been thrown off? Or, have you been repeatedly threatened or harmed, personally, leading to perfectly valid reasons to feel a threat?

If a stranger was in my house and he came at me and I was armed, I'd shoot the bastard, no questions asked. If he ran away, that's a whole different matter. You don't shoot a fleeing person in the back.

I read this part above three times, and for the life of me, all that entered my head was Little Feat's 'Sailing Shoes': "If you if away all your life....."

[vision]

Slick, the world has become a dangerous place.

It's actually safer than any other time in history, worldwide.

[woodchip]

links, and do you really want to compete with the list of kids using mommy's gun to kill a sibling(which happened just this weekend in New Jersey)?Some child saved, three others shot.....that's the tradeoff you are so proud of. Attaboy, what an American hero you are.

I posted the video as a link. Now lets look at your confused statement:

Some child saved, three others shot.....that's the trade off you are so proud of. Attaboy, what an American hero you are.

Here's the real trade off. In the one case a criminal bent on harming here children was killed by the mother. If she didn't have a gun and she was killed and her daughter sexually abused...then killed, you would of been deliriously happy because no guns were involved? Yes stupid accidents will happen just like children dying from getting into the medicine cabinet and eating the brightly colored pills thinking they were candy.

Now lets look at facts. From Prof Lott and his book "More guns, less crime":

John R. Lott, Jr.: States with the largest increases in gun ownership also have the largest drops in violent crimes. Thirty-one states now have such laws—called “shall-issue” laws. These laws allow adults the right to carry concealed handguns if they do not have a criminal record or a history of significant mental illness.

For each additional year that a concealed handgun law is in effect the murder rate declines by 3 percent, rape by 2 percent, and robberies by over 2 percent.

The analysis is based on data for all 3,054 counties in the United States during 18 years from 1977 to 1994.

Question: Your argument about criminals and deterrence doesn’t tell the whole story. Don’t statistics show that most people are killed by someone they know?

Lott: You are referring to the often-cited statistic that 58 percent of murder victims are killed by either relatives or acquaintances. However, what most people don’t understand is that this “acquaintance murder” number also includes gang members killing other gang members, drug buyers killing drug pushers, cabdrivers killed by customers they picked up for the first time, prostitutes and their clients, and so on. “Acquaintance” covers a wide range of relationships. The vast majority of murders are not committed by previously law-abiding citizens. Ninety percent of adult murderers have had criminal records as adults.

http://www.press.uchicago.edu/Misc/Chicago/493636.html

[woodchip]

links, and do you really want to compete with the list of kids using mommy's gun to kill a sibling(which happened just this weekend in New Jersey)?Some child saved, three others shot.....that's the tradeoff you are so proud of. Attaboy, what an American hero you are.

I posted the video as a link. Now lets look at your confused statement:

Some child saved, three others shot.....that's the trade off you are so proud of. Attaboy, what an American hero you are.

Here's the real trade off. In the one case a criminal bent on harming her children was killed by the mother. If she didn't have a gun and she was killed and her daughter sexually abused...then killed, you would of been deliriously happy because no guns were involved? Yes stupid accidents will happen just like children dying from getting into the medicine cabinet and eating the brightly colored pills thinking they were candy.

Now lets look at facts. From Prof Lott and his book "More guns, less crime":

John R. Lott, Jr.: States with the largest increases in gun ownership also have the largest drops in violent crimes. Thirty-one states now have such laws—called “shall-issue” laws. These laws allow adults the right to carry concealed handguns if they do not have a criminal record or a history of significant mental illness.

For each additional year that a concealed handgun law is in effect the murder rate declines by 3 percent, rape by 2 percent, and robberies by over 2 percent.

The analysis is based on data for all 3,054 counties in the United States during 18 years from 1977 to 1994.

Question: Your argument about criminals and deterrence doesn’t tell the whole story. Don’t statistics show that most people are killed by someone they know?

Lott: You are referring to the often-cited statistic that 58 percent of murder victims are killed by either relatives or acquaintances. However, what most people don’t understand is that this “acquaintance murder” number also includes gang members killing other gang members, drug buyers killing drug pushers, cabdrivers killed by customers they picked up for the first time, prostitutes and their clients, and so on. “Acquaintance” covers a wide range of relationships. The vast majority of murders are not committed by previously law-abiding citizens. Ninety percent of adult murderers have had criminal records as adults.

http://www.press.uchicago.edu/Misc/Chicago/493636.html

[callmeslick]

got ya so worked up you quoted yourself?

[woodchip]

Is this your best response? Or are you deliberately trying to get the thread closed because you have no answer?

[callmeslick]

no, you go on the same tired rant. Trying to claim high gun ownership is the CAUSE of lower violent crime rates, yet, the rates have gone down in provable situations WITHOUT an increase in gun ownership. Frankly, I was addressing TC's rationale around how dangerous life is now, and you simply chose to interject your same-old, same-old.

[woodchip]

Not my assertion slick. Prof. Lott has run the numbers. Unless you have stats that show something different, then I would suggest you stop talking about something you have no clue about.

[callmeslick]

running the numbers and proving a correlation are not the same thing. The good professor did one of them.

[woodchip]

So in other words all you can do is make a opinion with no knowledge.

[callmeslick]

huh? Drinking early today? I was quite clear in my answer to TC. Sorry I didn't wish to wander up Mount Stupid with you on your tangent.

[woodchip]

Not drinking. Lott even acknowledges that crime will go down as more people carry. Perhaps you should revisit your reply to tc and ask yourself why the crime has went down. Not because non-defenders like you refuse to admit people carrying guns are the real reason crime is going down. So TC is correct and once again you have no clue.

[callmeslick]

not going to rehash the obvious plusses and minuses. My only statement in this thread is that TC is afraid of a reality that doesn't exist. I'll stand by that and leave you to beat your chest and proclaim that you know all the answers as to WHY.

[Tunnelcat]

Slick, the world has become a dangerous place. The cops are spread thin and there are too many people around now who want to take your things and who will not hesitate to attack you and/or take your life in order to take what they want.

and yet, in terms of numeric instances and per capita rates, all measures for violent crime are down, nationwide and have been going down for over a decade and a half. So, just maybe it's your perception which has been thrown off? Or, have you been repeatedly threatened or harmed, personally, leading to perfectly valid reasons to feel a threat?

If a stranger was in my house and he came at me and I was armed, I'd shoot the bastard, no questions asked. If he ran away, that's a whole different matter. You don't shoot a fleeing person in the back.

I read this part above three times, and for the life of me, all that entered my head was Little Feat's 'Sailing Shoes': "If you if away all your life....."

It's actually safer than any other time in history, worldwide.

Then look at it this way slick and vision, I'll probably never have to use my handgun to shoot a person for the rest of my life if this country is so safe. I'd prefer it that way too. But like you indicated slick,there's always that nagging "IF".

[callmeslick]

hoping for your continued safety, TC, at any rate.

[callmeslick]

meanwhile, the pendulum keeps swinging in the same direction:
http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/poll-s ... li=BBnbcA1