Elon gets it....

[callmeslick]

....as I've been trying to say here. NO politician will say this, none have the nerve. I suspect economic experts like Warren know,but it would be political suicide in the US to even have the discussion:
http://www.msn.com/en-us/money/markets/ ... li=BBnbfcN

[callmeslick]

http://www.msn.com/en-us/money/markets/ ... li=BBnbfcN

[Spidey]

....as I've been trying to say here. NO politician will say this, none have the nerve. I suspect economic experts like Warren know,but it would be political suicide in the US to even have the discussion:
http://www.msn.com/en-us/money/markets/ ... li=BBnbfcN

The basic flaw in the universal income is the fact that most all…if not all economies and monetary systems are based on the buying and selling of labor. Labor has value and therefore can be sold for a currency that can then be exchanged for life’s necessities. Most currencies are backed by the productivity of labor.

Therefore the obvious question is…how does the system work when labor no longer has any value?

Where will the government get the revenue that it will distribute to the people…can the government simply tax the automated industry, and the distribute that money to the people, in order that they can then buy what industry sells…that in my opinion is a closed system, and can’t work.

Another flaw is the fact that industry sells consumer goods to earn profit that in turn provides a luxury lifestyle. Once you have robots and automation sophisticated enough to replace human labor there wont be any need to produce consumer goods to provide that luxury lifestyle…therefore it won’t be human labor that becomes obsolete, it will be the jobs themselves.

In other words…why should I produce things to sell with my robots, when I could simply use them to provide my every need instead.

Now I have heard a lot of talk about robots and universal incomes, but everyone fails to explain exactly how this new paradigm will work. (as in the devil is in the details)

[Spidey]

http://www.msn.com/en-us/money/markets/ ... li=BBnbfcN

So I guess we really don’t need all of those immigrants…huh.

[woodchip]

Careful it is not humans who become obsolete.

[callmeslick]

Spidey, your points are quite valid, but nonetheless, everything we've ever seen about technological progress dictates that Musk is correct. Thus, with your points in mind, we have to rethink the value system, compensation systems and pretty much everything of the sort in the modern economy. With less humans needed for industrial tasks, we have a potential value in humans performing other non-production tasks of benefit to society. A lot to think about, especially given than no one in power seems to wish to approach the subject.

@Woody, a pessimistic, but valid viewpoint there.

[Krom]

How will being careful prevent humans from becoming obsolete? The technology will get there eventually regardless of how "careful" we are. A lot of the force behind the advancement of automation is the elimination of human error, and the more human error you eliminate from the system, the more automation becomes possible.

[vision]

In other words…why should I produce things to sell with my robots, when I could simply use them to provide my every need instead.

Now I have heard a lot of talk about robots and universal incomes, but everyone fails to explain exactly how this new paradigm will work. (as in the devil is in the details)

How about producing things with your robots that make the world a better place because you're not a selfish prick? Businesses are inherently bad at altruism, which is a key component of civilization. That's why we have laws to regulate them. And when the inevitable collapse of the human labor market happens we will have no choice but to change the laws to fit the new reality. The sooner we get started working out the bugs, the better. All laws are imperfect (even the mighty US Constitution) and that's why we keep modifying them. Let's start legislating with permanent unemployment in mind and work from there as new challenges arise.

[Nightshade]

This is another pie in the sky 'super future tense' prediction that will take a very LOOOOOOOOOONG time to happen (if it does at all.)

Basic greed by the elite will not allow for 'basic income' as 'little people' will no longer be of use to them. The human population will simply be made to wither away by letting the useless 'little people' starve to death.

Elites are mostly psychopaths. They have no empathy for others.

Why would they support an unproductive population of eaters if they serve no purpose? In fact, the unproductive masses may present an ever growing danger to the elite...so, they will be gotten rid of.

[callmeslick]

why on Earth would you opine that this point, or some semblence, is a long way off? Hell, a good part of the unrest in the US electorate can be seen as due to early effects. We DO still make things. More cars than ever, with far fewer people. And, so on. The only industries really lost altogether were low wage low tech stuff to begin with. Your typical morose view of outcome is to be expected. I hope for better.

[Nightshade]

why on Earth would you opine that this point, or some semblence, is a long way off? Hell, a good part of the unrest in the US electorate can be seen as due to early effects. We DO still make things. More cars than ever, with far fewer people. And, so on. The only industries really lost altogether were low wage low tech stuff to begin with. Your typical morose view of outcome is to be expected. I hope for better.

Just the reality of human nature slick. Psychopaths don't give a s*** about anyone but themselves. Those are who are "leaders" are.

[Tunnelcat]

How will being careful prevent humans from becoming obsolete? The technology will get there eventually regardless of how "careful" we are. A lot of the force behind the advancement of automation is the elimination of human error, and the more human error you eliminate from the system, the more automation becomes possible.

You can't completely eliminate human error, even in automation, because humans still have to create the programming to run that automation and we all know that even the best of programmers can make mistakes. I guess if the machines themselves start creating their own code to run things, circumventing the human factor, then the days of the software bug might disappear. But then, so would creativity.