Descent 1 1/2

Kaizerwolf · Post by **Kaizerwolf** » Tue Jul 11, 2017 1:02 pm

Sometime today, or before the week is over, I'll upload my progress on Reactor Ohm to see how you guys feel about it. I'm afraid I'm doing too much symmetry with it, so I'm hoping to branch off of that (pun intended), but I'm having a tough time figuring out how.

Xfing · Post by **Xfing** » Tue Jul 11, 2017 4:18 pm

Kaizerwolf wrote:Sometime today, or before the week is over, I'll upload my progress on Reactor Ohm to see how you guys feel about it. I'm afraid I'm doing too much symmetry with it, so I'm hoping to branch off of that (pun intended), but I'm having a tough time figuring out how.

Sometimes a concept can be too all-encompassing and produces an overly themed, symmetric design. Oh well, I'm sure you'll figure something out.

To go out on a bit of a tangent - just found this song I made back in high school. Parts of it have a decidedly Descent feel, but overall it is probably a bit too uplifting for a Descent level, lol. Check it out dudes. It's called "Shagadellic" (I'm a big Austin Powers fan)
https://www.sendspace.com/file/wktdq9

Alter-Fox · Post by **Alter-Fox** » Tue Jul 11, 2017 8:01 pm

mmm... Descent had a few lighter songs. Especially a couple of Ogre's tracks, which still worked.
And there was that level 1 track from Descent 2 we all like to pretend never happened...

Now you've got me exploring a few of my five- and six-year old tracks to see if anything fits.

Xfing · Post by **Xfing** » Wed Jul 12, 2017 3:36 am

Well IMO all Descent music should be inhospitable, foreboding and dark, exemplified best by the D1L22 tune

Kaizerwolf · Post by **Kaizerwolf** » Wed Jul 12, 2017 8:56 am

Xfing wrote:Well IMO all Descent music should be inhospitable, foreboding and dark, exemplified best by the D1L22 tune

D3L14 would like to have a word with you about sending you to an abandoned psych ward

Kaizerwolf · Post by **Kaizerwolf** » Wed Jul 12, 2017 3:08 pm

Sorry for the double post. Level 48's WIP is up on Dropbox. The filenames are "Soros Vela" but the mission will show as Reactor Ohm in the game. Let me know what you think so far, it's very early stages.

Xfing · Post by **Xfing** » Wed Jul 12, 2017 5:12 pm

Kaizerwolf wrote:Sorry for the double post. Level 48's WIP is up on Dropbox. The filenames are "Soros Vela" but the mission will show as Reactor Ohm in the game. Let me know what you think so far, it's very early stages.

Nvm the double post, I do it all the time

Checked the level so far, looks splendid as always, your style is unmistakable, but still you manage to be anything but predictable. Getting definite Entropy/late Vertigo vibes from this level too. Just about enough symmetry for the entire level as it is though, and some tighter areas to counterbalance the open spaces would be nice too, not to mention there's a dearth of secrets thus far, but I know you're on it.

Some textures need aligning in the WIP room for sure, the grays on the walls with the light strips need to be compressed so as to not feel so stretched - the lights will be unaffected due to them being pretty much pure white. This is done either by using the compress button or by moving the texture in line mode rather than side mode. Also, the coolant water textures could be fused, right now the sections feel jarringly separated. If you don't know how to do it, there are examples of seamless and natural-looking connections between water sections flowing in different directions in LightWolf's level, "Dacol Futyl Caverns", ironically enough

You could probably glean the method from examining that level.

Also, make sure to put cubes behind the starting hatches and make them proper doors, so that you get the usual "you cannot open this door" message when shooting them. I'd also suggest making the starting position face away from one of the hatches, as is the case in pretty much every single D1, D2 and Vertigo level out there.

Oh, and a stray observation - I think D1's lava texture would look quite good in that large area that looks like half a doughnut and has the porous red texture on its floor areas on both sides. I know it would probably look weird bordered by a light strip, but oh well, it's just a thought

Kaizerwolf · Post by **Kaizerwolf** » Wed Jul 12, 2017 7:38 pm

Xfing wrote:
Checked the level so far, looks splendid as always, your style is unmistakable, but still you manage to be anything but predictable. Getting definite Entropy/late Vertigo vibes from this level too. Just about enough symmetry for the entire level as it is though, and some tighter areas to counterbalance the open spaces would be nice too, not to mention there's a dearth of secrets thus far, but I know you're on it.

Yep, I tend to add secrets last. I'll make sure to leave some room for them! Tighter areas were also on the menu as well.

Some textures need aligning in the WIP room for sure, the grays on the walls with the light strips need to be compressed so as to not feel so stretched - the lights will be unaffected due to them being pretty much pure white. This is done either by using the compress button or by moving the texture in line mode rather than side mode.

That stretched grey isn't permanent, don't worry. I just got lazy

Also, the coolant water textures could be fused, right now the sections feel jarringly separated. If you don't know how to do it, there are examples of seamless and natural-looking connections between water sections flowing in different directions in LightWolf's level, "Dacol Futyl Caverns", ironically enough You could probably glean the method from examining that level.

Okay, I can check that out. Still need to figure out how to bridge those two coolant rooms together too.

Also, make sure to put cubes behind the starting hatches and make them proper doors, so that you get the usual "you cannot open this door" message when shooting them. I'd also suggest making the starting position face away from one of the hatches, as is the case in pretty much every single D1, D2 and Vertigo level out there.

Of course! This isn't my first rodeo, I say at my second rodeo...

Oh, and a stray observation - I think D1's lava texture would look quite good in that large area that looks like half a doughnut and has the porous red texture on its floor areas on both sides. I know it would probably look weird bordered by a light strip, but oh well, it's just a thought

I'll look into that, see how it plays out. Removing those side lights probably isn't the worst idea.

LightWolf · Post by **LightWolf** » Thu Jul 13, 2017 10:18 pm

Noticed that Reactor Yoga has a stretched black texture if you enter the red door on the right.

Kaizerwolf · Post by **Kaizerwolf** » Fri Jul 14, 2017 8:26 am

LightWolf wrote:Yoga

Ohm is actually a unit of measurement for electrical resistance!

I'll look into that texture though, thanks.

LightWolf · Post by **LightWolf** » Fri Jul 14, 2017 11:05 am

Kaizerwolf wrote:Ohm is actually a unit of measurement for electrical resistance!

Reactor Reactor, got it

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Don't feel like double-posting, so I'm gonna put some stuff here.

I was listening to some of the music from D1, and I have decided that D1 level 14 music is a quite good boss track. I think it would even be fitting for Frosted Minerals Abyss.

Xfing · Post by **Xfing** » Sun Jul 16, 2017 4:31 am

LightWolf wrote:
Kaizerwolf wrote:Ohm is actually a unit of measurement for electrical resistance!
Reactor Reactor, got it

You mean "Resistor Reactor". At least do your research before you try to be funny with puns

-------------------------------------------------------------------
Don't feel like double-posting, so I'm gonna put some stuff here.

I was listening to some of the music from D1, and I have decided that D1 level 14 music is a quite good boss track. I think it would even be fitting for Frosted Minerals Abyss.

Probably not such a bad idea, that track is quite ominous. I would know, since I'm stuck on level 14 again, because I decided I needed demos for full Insane runs of every level. Made it past 9 and 11, now 14 is kicking my ass. Definitely an under-appreciated level when it comes to difficulty, that mofo's hard.

Alter-Fox · Post by **Alter-Fox** » Sun Jul 16, 2017 7:58 am

I love the metal version of that song, yeah. It's the only place D1 deviates from 4/4 time unless you count Glut and Haunted on the PSX soundtrack.
But I think since Frosty's got the final level of the Zeta Aquilae planetary systems portion of the campaign it would be more appropriate to use the Descent 2 level 4 track.

LightWolf · Post by **LightWolf** » Sun Jul 16, 2017 12:29 pm

I was actually thinking of D2L4 as Falls of Truth

LightWolf · Post by **LightWolf** » Mon Aug 07, 2017 1:43 pm

Sorry for DP

I recently realized that there's no proper robot chase sequences, let alone levels devoted to them. Since I'm technically below that arbitrary five-level thing, I had the crazy idea to somewhat remedy that (though only with the yellow key

) with a late-game Vertigo level.

Dynamo Station

On a related note, I think each game should have at least one level in which every single key is in a robot.

Alter-Fox · Post by **Alter-Fox** » Mon Aug 07, 2017 5:44 pm

We're not going to take it. Arbitrary limit or no, you've outstayed your welcome five times over as far as submissions go.

You're absolutely right that someone has to build an entire chase level (but not that we haven't used the concept yet -- it's in there already). But the person who builds it won't be you.

Xfing · Post by **Xfing** » Tue Aug 08, 2017 5:33 am

Alter-Fox wrote:We're not going to take it. Arbitrary limit or no, you've outstayed your welcome five times over as far as submissions go.

You're absolutely right that someone has to build an entire chase level (but not that we haven't used the concept yet -- it's in there already). But the person who builds it won't be you.

Well, as much as I sympathize with the sentiment, I've played through this level and it actually is not that bad. Of course it's not stellar like some of say, Naphtha's submissions, but I think it's rather up to par. The architecture at least feels very much like Vertigo, and the texture choice is really quite good in most places (I'd make only very, very minor changes). At the very least, this is a better submission than some of LightWolf's ones currently on the list, so we shouldn't be so hasty to discard it I think. Of course the robot placement and choice does show that he's never completed Descent 2 on Insane (not by a long shot), but that's one thing that's the easiest to fix, fortunately. The length of the level is good, the locales are pleasing to the eye, I say we give the bugger a chance.

Perhaps it's just me being easily impressed though, so I'll wait for more of your opinions. And most importantly - someone seasoned who's played a lot of custom Descent missions needs to examine this level for signs of plagiarism. The geometry is suspiciously good in many places, mind you

EDIT: I think there is an error with the trigger to open the long, curved tunnel between the reactor room and the area near the exit. I couldn't find a way to open it, even though I searched in the editor too.

Xfing · Post by **Xfing** » Wed Aug 09, 2017 8:19 am

Also, since we've crossed out one of his earlier submissions, I believe a chance should be given to redeem himself. The ban on any further submissions was a result of consistently low quality, but still, every level needs to be examined on an individual basis. With submissions of this quality, I can frankly reconsider. I sometimes can't help but think whether all of this is just some elaborate attempt to troll the community or genuine albeit inconsistent growth in skills. And yeah, the issue of whether this is completely OC still worries me. Given the history I can't be blamed I suppose.

Alter-Fox · Post by **Alter-Fox** » Wed Aug 09, 2017 1:36 pm

Well if he is trolling and actually made something legit and decent he already defeated himself. Actually putting it into the set would be rubbing salt on that self-inflicted wound.
It's better than having Descer anyway.

Xfing · Post by **Xfing** » Thu Aug 10, 2017 3:37 am

Alter-Fox wrote:Well if he is trolling and actually made something legit and decent he already defeated himself. Actually putting it into the set would be rubbing salt on that self-inflicted wound.
It's better than having Descer anyway.

What's Descer's schtick?

Alter-Fox · Post by **Alter-Fox** » Thu Aug 10, 2017 12:49 pm

Throwing random cubes and textures at each other and saying it's the best level ever made?
Speaking in medieval English because he says it should be easier for everyone else to understand him that way?

Take a look at some of his maps and readmes if you think I'm exaggerating... he makes the worst of lightwolf's maps look like they were made by a pro.

Xfing · Post by **Xfing** » Thu Aug 10, 2017 1:12 pm

Alter-Fox wrote:Throwing random cubes and textures at each other and saying it's the best level ever made?
Speaking in medieval English because he says it should be easier for everyone else to understand him that way?

Take a look at some of his maps and readmes if you think I'm exaggerating... he makes the worst of lightwolf's maps look like they were made by a pro.

Holy moly, how come I've overlooked all of this up til now? Sounds like fun

LightWolf · Post by **LightWolf** » Fri Aug 11, 2017 4:21 pm

I can guarantee that (except for maybe accidentally with some level I've never heard of) that my level is 100% original!
As for that curved tunnel, it's supposed to open when the reactor is destroyed, however DLE doesn't seem to like the idea... (It kept removing the trigger)

And no, I haven't beat D2 on insane - I can do hotshot at best

Xfing · Post by **Xfing** » Fri Aug 11, 2017 4:27 pm

LightWolf wrote:I can guarantee that (except for maybe accidentally with some level I've never heard of) that my level is 100% original!
As for that curved tunnel, it's supposed to open when the reactor is destroyed, however DLE doesn't seem to like the idea... (It kept removing the trigger)

And no, I haven't beat D2 on insane - I can do hotshot at best

Well then try to do something about that trigger and then we'll talk about inclusion. The doorlight textures are a bit busted, but I can take care of that easily. Looks almost like you used the wrong template file for the wrong PIG file. The seventh one goes into Descent.pig. Also, changing between PIGs while the POG is already loaded tends to screw up the custom textures.

BTW letting the tunnel open with the reactor is no good. No one is going to have time to take care of 3 cloaked missile hulks, people should be given the chance to do so while the mine is still intact. A switch to unlock the door from the reactor room's side would be much better, with another switch inside the tunnel itself to remove the wall on the other end. That way people can at least get some breathing room and maybe even make use of the supplies that are in the level - the way things are now these supplies could only be used in the following level, not really optimal for cold starters. And that still holds true even given the fact that the robot lineup is not final.

LightWolf · Post by **LightWolf** » Fri Aug 11, 2017 4:28 pm

I tried importing some textures directly from D1 - are the POG textures different?
On that note, I didn't notice any issues with the D1 textures...

I'll try to get back when I can.

Edit: More proof that DLE hates me - it keeps deleting all but the first frame of the doorlights.

Xfing · Post by **Xfing** » Fri Aug 11, 2017 4:41 pm

LightWolf wrote:I tried importing some textures directly from D1 - are the POG textures different?
On that note, I didn't notice any issues with the D1 textures...

I'll try to get back when I can.

Edit: More proof that DLE hates me - it keeps deleting all but the first frame of the doorlights.

I belive you have download access to the project's dropbox folder. There's a zip file called template_pogs.zip there, containing textures optimized for every one of Descent 2's PIG palettes (along with the seventh one). If you want to use textures piecemeal, it would be much quicker to use those I prepared, they're all in the folder "EXCLUSIVETX". Descent 1's exclusive textures were exported in three variants to take into account the three default "transparent" background colors (they are not pure white in Alien1/Alien2 and Ice).. The textures for the door lights in your version of the level are definitely not the way they should look in Descent.PIG. They look like you imported them into some other PIG like Ice, and then changed the base PIG to Descent afterwards. This is precisely the sort of thing that happens when you do that. Just reloading the textures (frame by frame if necessary) should fix this. Hell, maybe I'll even do it myself, really not much work to do this time.

LightWolf · Post by **LightWolf** » Fri Aug 11, 2017 4:47 pm

Come to think of it, I may have started with ice...

Xfing · Post by **Xfing** » Fri Aug 11, 2017 6:26 pm

LightWolf wrote:Come to think of it, I may have started with ice...

Ok, almost everything is fixed, I'll get the level up on dropbox tomorrow, just let me know which slot you'd see this level in.

LightWolf · Post by **LightWolf** » Fri Aug 11, 2017 8:49 pm

Anywhere after the midpoint boss should be fine.

Xfing · Post by **Xfing** » Sat Aug 12, 2017 4:32 am

Ok, done. You win some, you lose some, but in the end you once again have five missions on the list. Not a bad number to be at, though if you insist to submit even more levels, prepare for merciless scrutiny.

Our core designing team is rather small, but I'm happy to say that they produce great quality and diversity. Even more designers would definitely be welcome, or at the very least more submissions from guys like Phozon or homeyduh, hopefully they let us know about themselves yet sometime.

LightWolf · Post by **LightWolf** » Sat Aug 12, 2017 11:05 am

I've been silently hoping DFW would commit a level or two

Also Kaizer, is Reactor Ohm the official name for that level (at least for now)? If so, you could update the level list to reflect X.

Kaizerwolf · Post by **Kaizerwolf** » Fri Aug 18, 2017 7:37 am

That's the planned name, yes. I don't think I have edit control on the OP though.

Xfing · Post by **Xfing** » Sat Aug 19, 2017 1:38 pm

Ok, I'll update the OP then

Alter-Fox · Post by **Alter-Fox** » Thu Aug 24, 2017 8:27 am

I just updated Planetary Life Research with some better texturing and rejiggered the ring energy center.
Unfortunately I couldn't get line mode to work any differently when stretching/compressing/aligning textures than side mode so I had to do the water "parallax style". Also this means that all the mines you put in the level are lost now.

But I didn't delete the version you put up, it's just called "lifesrch with mines.hog" now.

Also need to claim one vertigo slot post-fusion hulk; preferably 45 or 46.

Xfing · Post by **Xfing** » Thu Aug 24, 2017 3:13 pm

Alter-Fox wrote:I just updated Planetary Life Research with some better texturing and rejiggered the ring energy center.
Unfortunately I couldn't get line mode to work any differently when stretching/compressing/aligning textures than side mode so I had to do the water "parallax style". Also this means that all the mines you put in the level are lost now. But I didn't delete the version you put up, it's just called "lifesrch with mines.hog" now.
Also need to claim one vertigo slot post-fusion hulk; preferably 45 or 46.

I don't recall putting any mines in the level, or anything else for that matter. I think that was all you

I'll figure out the water alignment by studying that level by Lightwolf that had it done in that cool way.

I'll tick 46 as claimed by you

Alter-Fox · Post by **Alter-Fox** » Sat Aug 26, 2017 10:27 am

If you like the level name would you mind adding a tiny tiny little bit of information to the level 46 briefing for me?

Xfing · Post by **Xfing** » Sat Aug 26, 2017 5:44 pm

Alter-Fox wrote:If you like the level name would you mind adding a tiny tiny little bit of information to the level 46 briefing for me?

Sure thing. I haven't thought about writing the briefings as of yet, but they'll be rather curt like those from Descent, though about 50 to 70% longer to give a little bit more exposition on each level. So yeah, a few lines of your choosing shouldn't hurt

Alter-Fox · Post by **Alter-Fox** » Sat Aug 26, 2017 6:56 pm

Yep. Just a mention of the mine having been abandoned by PTMC years before the virus outbreak and the planet it's on having been removed from all navigational charts at the same time, would be super.
The level itself kinda implies the rest of the story.

Xfing · Post by **Xfing** » Sun Aug 27, 2017 4:46 am

Ok, I'll refer back to this when writing the briefings.

Alter-Fox · Post by **Alter-Fox** » Sun Aug 27, 2017 10:04 am

Lol, thread page 27. Remember 27.

The level's done and even populated with robot suggestions but I haven't been able to upload just yet, or get very many good screenshots on the computer I'm using right now. I put a screenshot of the starting room and two of the automap in the dropbox "screenshots" folder (don't want to spoil the map for those waiting for the mission) -- so at least you can get a picture of how it might look.
The general idea is a similar texture scheme to the early levels of Descent 1, but having to fight all the big robots you don't see in that part of the original game.