Mouse/KB time for a change?

[ReadyMan]

I've been a joystick user for Descent since the initial D1 release (during the demo it was all kb only...but the sore wrists was too painful to continue with).
Been with the 3dpro since just after the $50k tournament.

I'm wondering if it's time to switch to KB/Mouse...?
I know Overload is a long way off from fine tuning the joystick configuration (now it turns slower than the mouse), but just thought I'd get other opinions.

Is the KB/Mouse superior?

[Duper]

I think that's subjective.
Overload plays well with M&K, but personally I'd like to use a stick. Right now, the demo doesn't like my stick (Saitek X52) so I'm using a M&K.
In the demo, the ship plays a bit more like mouse look than the lilting turn of the pyro of D1 and D2.

[Sergeant Thorne]

More power to you if you're thinking of switching to mouse, Readyman. I've heard good things about accuracy improvements over stick use. Personally I just can't get around having to delegate so much to my keyboard hand.

If you're willing to get a little more use out of your 3D Pro, I just posted a work-around over on the OVERLOAD forums for the hatch switch sliding issue effecting the MS 3D Pro, and I'm thinking I may be able to tackle joystick sensitivity adjustments by using the same application to actually map the stick to mouse movement with an adjustable speed multiplier variable to control sensitivity.

[Ferno]

I'm still a holdout -- I don't think I'll ever give up the venerable 3dpro.

Overload just feels bang-on with the stick, even though at light pressure the ship rotates a lot slower than the pyro, and it feels like it has a lot of expo dialed into it.

[homeyduh]

I've always been a Mouse/KB user, but I relegated all functions on the keyboard to the NUMPad, for ease of use. All but transfer energy and headlight are on the NUMpad and in Overload, I actually use the Up arrow as my headlights. I can post my controls if anyone is interested

[d3jake]

I agree: "Better" is subjective. For fine aiming, it can be more efficient. I've always found that the trade off isn't worth it. I've stuck with a 3D Pro + N52.

[Lothar]

at the top end, there are pilots on kb+mouse and pilots on joystick. Some use old MS 3D Pros, some use the Logitech Extreme 3D Pro (main downside: it has a very stiff spring), and I've just switched to the Thrustmaster T16000M (main downside: had to modify the hat switch so my thumb doesn't slide off.)

[CDN_Merlin]

When Overload came out, I played with the mouse because my stick didn't work. I sucked badly. I couldn't bank or move on many axis at once. Now that my 3D Pro works, I can fly so much better and faster.

[ReadyMan]

Same here. I had to use the mouse to get Overload working.
I found that I had MUCH greater accuracy with the mouse.
My flying with the 3dpro is much better, so I'm far more defensive, but the accuracy isnt there.
Thus my dilemma. I'm so used to the 3dpro/kb, but seem to be MUCH better with the mouse.
Dont want to be too hasty though, since much optimization has to be done to the JS configurations in Overload.

[d3jake]

Play around with your sensitivities. I've found that if I can't hit a thing, I need only play around with those and it dials in pretty well.

[Xfing]

I think I'll try a keyboard only setup when I buy the game. Like the one I use in Descent. For some reason the mouse feels like an obvious choice to me in regular FPS games, but in 360DOF sims I actually feel comfier playing with the keyboard alone.

[vision]

For some reason the mouse feels like an obvious choice to me in regular FPS games, but in 360DOF sims I actually feel comfier playing with the keyboard alone.

To me the difference comes down to sacrificing mouse precision for continuous turning (pitch) from a keyboard. Reading this thread I might go back to KB only for a while. (Although, I like binding mouse buttons to certain things like "rear view" and "weapon cycling".)

[Xfing]

There are also problems with the mouse going places in 360DOFs for me. In regular FPSes it hardly moves from one spot, but here it can actually even go off the pad! That's why i prefer the keyboard. The mouse can be handy for precise long distance aiming though, at low sensitivity settings.

[Alter-Fox]

It's not too hard to find a mouse that doesn't actually need a pad (I haven't used a mousepad in years!), but people seem to like having one anyway for some reason.
Doesn't make sense.

[vision]

It's not too hard to find a mouse that doesn't actually need a pad (I haven't used a mousepad in years!), but people seem to like having one anyway for some reason.
Doesn't make sense.

I use a pad because my optical mouse's sensor gets confused by the grain of my work-surface. I have a ball-mouse, but I find it less accurate than optical. Even if you have a large work surface and no mousepad, you still have to occasionally lift and re-orient the mouse playing 6dof games. It's inevitable, one of the problems not seen with joysticks an keybaord only.

[AlexanderBorisov]

There are also problems with the mouse going places in 360DOFs for me. In regular FPSes it hardly moves from one spot, but here it can actually even go off the pad! That's why i prefer the keyboard. The mouse can be handy for precise long distance aiming though, at low sensitivity settings.

Still looks like a mouse sensitivity setting problem, why should it be so different from regular FPS? The only difference is that you need to learn to move your mouse not faster than ship turning speed in Descent, otherwise you are wasting the movement.

[Sirius]

Main reason I use a mousepad is to control the level of friction and avoid wearing out the desk. Which may not be that much of a concern, but it wasn't THAT expensive a mousepad and will probably last at least another 10 years.

Running out of movement space (even without a mousepad or things in the way, your arm is only so long) is definitely a problem with KB+M setups, but if you have a reasonably large space and a high-sensitivity mouse you can manage it to the point that it's only rarely a problem.
If you have no problems in normal FPS games, though, I would agree with Alexander - you're probably overturning. Descent isn't very intuitive in that respect - it doesn't "catch up" to your overturn like vehicles in typical shooters would.

[AlexanderBorisov]

Main reason I use a mousepad is to control the level of friction and avoid wearing out the desk. Which may not be that much of a concern, but it wasn't THAT expensive a mousepad and will probably last at least another 10 years.

Running out of movement space (even without a mousepad or things in the way, your arm is only so long) is definitely a problem with KB+M setups, but if you have a reasonably large space and a high-sensitivity mouse you can manage it to the point that it's only rarely a problem.
If you have no problems in normal FPS games, though, I would agree with Alexander - you're probably overturning. Descent isn't very intuitive in that respect - it doesn't "catch up" to your overturn like vehicles in typical shooters would.

Well, I use an A4 paper sheet instead of a mousepad! My mouse is optical 1600 DPI and it takes ~6 cm of movement to do 360 deg turn in Descent, it is interesting what you will say about this setup, it seems to work rather well for SP (still have to raise it often, of course), but not sure whether I'd have enough aiming precision/turning speed with those for MP.

[Sirius]

It sounds perfectly reasonable... I'd be worried about getting papercuts but I guess you have that figured out

[AlexanderBorisov]

I always have a cheap "upgrade option" for fixing this problem, imagine what? A3 paper sheets!

[Xfing]

Bought the game at last! I'm having problems with the numerical keyboard, though. Turn left and turn right tend to linger after pressing them, as if I hadn't released them. It's really weird and I have no idea what could be the cause. On their own they operate fine, but this problem appears when I use Left Shift alongside them, which is my traditional acceleration key.

[Sirius]

The devs don't frequent the DBB - might be best to take the bug report to the Overload site.

[Xfing]

Well, it's more likely my keyboard's problem anyway. Also, it's irrelevant, since I actually play with the mouse

[Burlyman]

I would recommend it. Your hand will hurt a lot less, that's for sure.

[pdxgeek]

The last time I broke out the stick to do some D1/D2 games I had lost the touch needed to properly aim. Overload has so many tuning options for the mouse it's easy to think if I turn this setting to weak and that setting to whatever, I will instantly be a good mouse user. I spent hours trying different things out and eventually turned off all the mouse tuning settings and just played with mouse sensitivities in the game and the DPI setting on my mouse. Then, I sat down and just played a ton of challenge mode games in count down mode and played the game. Meaningful practice is almost always the solution.

Another big change I made was to use a Logitech G13 programmable gaming pad. It has a POV stick on it that you can use easily with your thumb. This allowed me to map all the slide functions to the hat stick and freed up the letters Q and E that I used for rolling. I put roll to the letters A and D instead and with some dedicated time practicing I am starting to feel comfortable in the pilot seat again.