Impressions on Descent: Insane, cold start, no-death, 100%

Sum0Beatz · Post by **Sum0Beatz** » Fri Mar 16, 2018 8:28 pm

I wonder if someone can complete a full run on insane descent 1 without dying once, that would be amazing.

Thats my challenge for you Xfing, after you complete descent 1.5 and complete descent 2 no deaths on insane =P =P

Sirius · Post by **Sirius** » Fri Mar 16, 2018 10:31 pm

If someone did it in Dark Souls, they can do it in Descent... provided of course all the levels are possible (which I think they are?).

Xfing · Post by **Xfing** » Sat Mar 17, 2018 6:35 am

Sum0Beatz wrote: ↑Fri Mar 16, 2018 8:28 pm I wonder if someone can complete a full run on insane descent 1 without dying once, that would be amazing.

Thats my challenge for you Xfing, after you complete descent 1.5 and complete descent 2 no deaths on insane =P =P

I might attempt it someday, though it'll probably fail horribly. I want to record demos of all the official missions beaten without dying first, which is D2, Vertigo and Maximum. But yeah, this sure sounds like good clean fun! I might even stream it on Twitch or something.

AlexanderBorisov · Post by **AlexanderBorisov** » Sat Mar 17, 2018 7:26 am

Sirius wrote: ↑Fri Mar 16, 2018 10:31 pm If someone did it in Dark Souls, they can do it in Descent... provided of course all the levels are possible (which I think they are?).

If you mean no saves too, even if you have 50% failure probability on each level - you will probably need more time than our Universe lifespan...
Of course first levels are easy by this is compensated by very hard later levels. I even doubt that you will have more than 1 of 5 chance on L6...

Xfing · Post by **Xfing** » Sat Mar 17, 2018 12:40 pm

AlexanderBorisov wrote: ↑Sat Mar 17, 2018 7:26 am
Sirius wrote: ↑Fri Mar 16, 2018 10:31 pm If someone did it in Dark Souls, they can do it in Descent... provided of course all the levels are possible (which I think they are?).
If you mean no saves too, even if you have 50% failure probability on each level - you will probably need more time than our Universe lifespan...
Of course first levels are easy by this is compensated by very hard later levels. I even doubt that you will have more than 1 of 5 chance on L6...

Not true, you can do level 6 reliably once you've practiced it enough.

vision · Post by **vision** » Sat Mar 17, 2018 2:45 pm

Xfing wrote: ↑Sat Mar 17, 2018 12:40 pmNot true, you can do level 6 reliably once you've practiced it enough.

Agreed. I can cold start LvL 6 on insane and get though it with few problems. It would be a cakewalk if I had all the weapons from previous levels. The only challenging levels would be ones with a lot of roaming (Level 9 comes to mind).

AlexanderBorisov · Post by **AlexanderBorisov** » Sat Mar 17, 2018 2:59 pm

Still doubt it, in L6 those two grey hulks near the blue key can start to roam and jump on you any time (which is sure death), as well as one near the energy center - you can lure it but sometimes it just refuses to go out. Some of the drillers can start to roam before you get them and cause a lot of damage. Yes any of those does not happen too often, but still happens, with any amount of learning and practicing. And I don't know how more weapons can help with those, especially given that you get all weapons and tons of homing missiles in L6 before you face smth really dangerous. There are similar situations in L11, 19, and many others, too.

Krom · Post by **Krom** » Sat Mar 17, 2018 4:05 pm

I used to be pretty competitive online, but sometimes when I just wanted to kick back and relax and play in a no stress environment I would just blast through levels 1-7 in D1 on hotshot, and I pretty much never died doing it either. I could do insane reliably too but that actually required some focus and attention. Its totally possible, especially for some of the more hardened online players.

Xfing · Post by **Xfing** » Sun Mar 18, 2018 4:39 am

Alex, a good way to prevent roaming is to preempt it. You just jump on those medium hulks as fast as you can and they don't even have time to say hello. The two guarding the blue key are the only ones that are troublesome here, because of their intimidation factor mostly. But yeah, you can never tell whether they're still idle or roaming already. But with enough patience you can lure them both out and pick them off at your leisure, which makes for a boring show, but it assures your survival.

I'd say the most troublesome thing in the level are the drillers guarding the branches leading to the colored doors.

Marvin · Post by **Marvin** » Sun Mar 18, 2018 6:12 am

Do we speak about 100% run on insane? MAtcens also has to be fully destroyed? Or "just" finishing the game without dying?

Marvin · Post by **Marvin** » Sun Mar 18, 2018 8:19 am

Levels 1-7 are very easy, it is close to impossible to die there on hotshot, if you are familiar enough with this game. I can do 100% run of 1-7 on insane without dieing, but whole game? That is damn hard. I'm not going to waste my time by trying that

.

AlexanderBorisov · Post by **AlexanderBorisov** » Sun Mar 18, 2018 11:51 am

Hotshot is out of question, robots barely move, shots are slower than your ship, robots reaction is terrible...
But on Insane, how you are dealing with those grey hulks in L6 - and the drillers? you told somewere that it is still a lottery... I agree on levels 1-5 and 7 that those can be done reliably on Insane, but hard to believe that L6 can be done several times in a row without dying (even with perfect skills, just due to bad luck)... Unless there is better strategy for it than I know of.

EDIT : just read Xfing's message, that's true, I never tried to lure those hulks near the blue key (too boring, I prefer dying once and restarting), but yes, sitting there and luring can make the other parts like those 4 drillers in colored door hub serious danger, so all this is still not 100% foolproof.

I think that for a challenge like this 100% limitation could be dropped, especially doing matcens, but saving the hostages is still a must. And IMO limiting it to levels 1-7 seems reasonable, even this should be quite difficult and was never recorded yet...

Xfing · Post by **Xfing** » Mon Mar 19, 2018 8:04 am

Well if it's a continuous run then it should still be easier than doing every single level from 1 through 7 without dying from cold start, but in a row

Marvin · Post by **Marvin** » Tue Mar 20, 2018 1:59 pm

I tried 1-7 100% run (not completely destroyed all matcens, but I told to myself I will destroy robots from it in a case, it is activated, so no robots left in the map) and did it first try. Didn't even care at all, I tried not waste a time, so I used the same path as in speedruns (ofc, I was significantly slower, but I think it is not bad for first try

). So Xfing is right, 1-7 is not a big deal.

Marvin · Post by **Marvin** » Wed Mar 21, 2018 2:20 pm

It took cca 16 hours to upload, but there it is:).

AlexanderBorisov · Post by **AlexanderBorisov** » Wed Mar 21, 2018 5:36 pm

Well done! Especially for the first try - and you were very fast, probably within 10% of you speedruns everywhere... The good memory of the levels plays crucial role in a run like this, a thing I never managed to achieve - mostly played a level, succeeded/recorded it quickly and forgot about it (excluding hard levels which I remember much better - but those are minority). Still interested what is your success rate with L6 using this strategy - is it possible to do like 3 or 5 times in a row, or you have failures caused by bad luck still? You lost more than 100 shields there, would be a death on cold start, and I really forgot that you can enter this level with 200 HP... How about L7 - you lost a lot of shields too, how about coldstart success rate there? Of course no need to try it actually. About levels 1-5 I see the route is really robust and not depending on luck.

Sum0Beatz · Post by **Sum0Beatz** » Thu Mar 22, 2018 3:30 am

I've moved on to level 8 D1 now, I love the level design, it is much harder than any level I've encountered so far, especially once you get the blue key the tunnels make it a challenge.

Xfing · Post by **Xfing** » Fri Mar 23, 2018 2:34 am

Level 8 is delightful. Fun, unique atmosphere, appropriately hard. I like it a lot

I'd watch the 1-7 run but I have a wearily busy period at work :<

Sum0Beatz · Post by **Sum0Beatz** » Fri Mar 23, 2018 9:12 pm

Ok level 8 was tough but what the hell is level 9 about, my goodness ambush after ambush, this is going to be a long one

Xfing · Post by **Xfing** » Sat Mar 24, 2018 4:50 am

Well it's one of the three toughest levels in the entire game, just so you know

Xfing · Post by **Xfing** » Sun Mar 25, 2018 12:19 pm

At last time for an update from my end!

Level 18: This level took me a disproportionate amount of time to beat, though to be fair I couldn't find the time nor the inclination recently to just try and finish it. Today was the day. Definitely an easily underestimated level and not something an unprepared pilot who underestimates the level will ever handle without dying. That said, there are some things you can do in this level that will make your life much easier, like pre-emptively taking care of some robots. The traps are quite devious, the snipe mode robots are a pain and the thiefbot is the worst of them all - in this level there is no reliable place to trap him in, so he'll keep making you miserable until you figure something out - and in my case that something is the earthshaker missile. Other than that this level is notable for being short on primary weapons, and it really gives the phoenix cannon room to shine. If you weren't inclined to use this cannon earlier, in this level you'll grow to enjoy it quite a bit. Also of note is the fact that they do give you Gauss, but the amount of ammo is quite limited (in fact the single cache you pick the cannon in is the only ammo in the level), so you're forced to keep it for the most intense situations only. Cloaked smelters abound, and are quite a pain, as are the diamond claws and e-bandits, due to this level's comparative tightness. Luckily it does get much better with practice, but it's by no means an easy-peasy level like most would have you believe. While level 17 seemed super tough only initially, this level is a different affair altogether. Don't believe those who'd have you underestimate Baloris Prime and treat it as a "breather system" compared to Limefrost Spiral. It really isn't.

In terms of design, this level appears to use most if not all textures of the Baloris theme, which makes it feel very rich. You get the "alien" vibes quite a bit, something that hasn't been apparent ever since Zeta Aquilae. It's definitely the most varied and nice-looking level of Caramel Ice Cream Land, though it still would benefit from having some old textures thrown in, like Vertigo would do instead. Anyway, it was quite a satisfying level to play and compared to the boringly uniform level 19, it was also probably prettier. We'll see, that one is up next.
DEMO: https://www.sendspace.com/file/asgpr0

Xfing · Post by **Xfing** » Sat Mar 31, 2018 12:10 pm

Level 19: Yeah, this one took much less time to do than 18, though I'd say it was harder than 17. Of note is the fact that there are no matcens at all in this level - which is something quite shocking for a level this late into the mission - so all you have to take care of are the standing forces. Which are quite substantial and easy to underestimate. Another interesting thing is that there is only one miniboss in the entire level, very few primary weapons to choose from, a very wealthy supply of smart mines, the smelters have a weird AI routine that makes them hit and run - kinda new. There are no Diamond Claws in this level at all either. All in all the difficulty is a bit of a conundrum - easy to underestimate, but trivial once practiced. There are some traps, but it's nothing a few smartmines or prox bombs can't take care of. Despite very sloppy play and taking lots of unnecessary damage, I was still able to do the reactor room on my first try, along all the traps on the way to the exit.

The texturing isn't as bleak and uniform as I'd previously thought, it's typical Baloris Prime fare, but the level is overall considerably darker than average, especially with the large central hub area. The geometry is what's the most interesting here - very blocky, but not quite sloppy enough to be D1, also with more detailing that you wouldn't find in the first game. Still, the tightness of the corridors compared to some of the earlier levels alongside heavy use of standard cube dimensions does give this level something of a D1 vibe in some ways. Not a bad one, but not very memorable either. On to level 20 now, which I expect to be quite hard. We'll see.

DEMO: https://www.sendspace.com/file/77za4u

Sum0Beatz · Post by **Sum0Beatz** » Wed Apr 11, 2018 3:59 pm

My Speed Run any% insane Lvl 6 descent 1

3:10

Xfing · Post by **Xfing** » Sat Apr 14, 2018 12:45 am

A good speedrun for sure! I'd never pull it off, I like to take my time in a level

Alter-Fox · Post by **Alter-Fox** » Sat Apr 14, 2018 3:21 pm

I need to blow up everything, or I leave with my ferocity unsated.

Xfing · Post by **Xfing** » Tue Apr 17, 2018 11:07 am

Ok, so to re-rail this thread a bit (is that even a word?), I'll say that I've been playing level 20 a bit, and up to a certain point it's not extremely difficult. The hardest part, which I haven't made my way through yet, is that part with the two matcens, one of which makes BPers, and another cloaked smelters. I know this part is bypassable, but for a 100% run that's no good. The matcen trigger points are assy too, I'll probably need to check them out in the editor to make sure I don't trigger them more than I need to. Other than that, it's pretty fun, and appropriately difficult. I'm wondering how troublesome the boss is going to be.

Alter-Fox · Post by **Alter-Fox** » Tue Apr 17, 2018 3:48 pm

I remember playing this map on insane (not cold start) and the boss could be a surprising challenge compared to the other difficulties because you don't get any invulnerabilities outside the secret level. It can be tough to avoid being hit by his Gauss cause you haven't really got anywhere to hide.

Xfing · Post by **Xfing** » Thu Apr 19, 2018 2:02 am

Plenty of room to hide actually, as long as he doesn't teleport to the other side of the flat intersection

Alter-Fox · Post by **Alter-Fox** » Thu Apr 19, 2018 6:59 am

Yeah but his immunity to mass weapons conveniently includes all the long-range homing weapons, so you still usually have to face him head-on.

LightWolf · Post by **LightWolf** » Mon Apr 23, 2018 6:22 pm

Get my weapons mod and use Helix or Fusion

AlexanderBorisov · Post by **AlexanderBorisov** » Tue May 08, 2018 12:54 pm

This boss is not hard to beat using the stuff from the secret level (Helix+invulnerability), but would be a real challenge otherwise...

Alter-Fox · Post by **Alter-Fox** » Tue May 08, 2018 3:48 pm

Are d2 style secret levels allowed under your rules though?
Got the impression they weren't.

AlexanderBorisov · Post by **AlexanderBorisov** » Tue May 08, 2018 5:39 pm

They are allowed, given you enter and exit the SL without additional saves (i.e save only in the beginning of the base level). The bug with stopping/bugged demo recording while entering/exiting SL still force you to record it with several demos, unfortunately... And I prefer to do the run without entering the SL whenever possible and then exit to SL after blowing up the reactor or boss, but in some cases it is not possible, like this L20, or L24 where you simply don't have enough shakers to kill the boss on coldstart without entering the SL.

Xfing · Post by **Xfing** » Wed May 09, 2018 9:23 am

There's an assload of shakers in level 24 though, much many more than you absolutely require.

AlexanderBorisov · Post by **AlexanderBorisov** » Wed May 09, 2018 10:41 am

Ok, if you will manage L24 this way (no SL) you will be the first one who did it... As I said earlier I never killed this boss with less than 7 shakers (direct back hits), and the level has only 5 (one very well hidden) - and 3 more in SL.

Xfing · Post by **Xfing** » Wed May 09, 2018 2:29 pm

AlexanderBorisov wrote: ↑Wed May 09, 2018 10:41 am Ok, if you will manage L24 this way (no SL) you will be the first one who did it... As I said earlier I never killed this boss with less than 7 shakers (direct back hits), and the level has only 5 (one very well hidden) - and 3 more in SL.

Oh my, you're right! I could have sworn there were loads more, at least that level's good at making such an impression. With just 5 it's going to be tricky for sure. 5 more smarts and several megas to help you too, but yeah, it would be a rather difficult thing to accomplish. I relish the challenge though

(still gotta get to that point though, and it's been slow for me as I play more Overload now)

Krom · Post by **Krom** » Wed May 09, 2018 3:13 pm

I once killed the L24 boss with smart mines, all 30 of them that the ship can carry. I dropped them all in a really tight line along a far wall while cloaked, then bated him into shooting at me while I was hiding in an alcove on the opposite wall, I used gauss to shoot the mines and when they are that close together they all go off at once. They all homed in on him and landed on his weak spot and it did him in from full health because I hadn't shot him with anything else significant before then. Can't remember what skill level I was playing at though, but 99% likely it was tranee because I was a total noob back then and keyboard only.

Xfing · Post by **Xfing** » Thu May 10, 2018 12:16 am

Krom wrote: ↑Wed May 09, 2018 3:13 pm I once killed the L24 boss with smart mines, all 30 of them that the ship can carry. I dropped them all in a really tight line along a far wall while cloaked, then bated him into shooting at me while I was hiding in an alcove on the opposite wall, I used gauss to shoot the mines and when they are that close together they all go off at once. They all homed in on him and landed on his weak spot and it did him in from full health because I hadn't shot him with anything else significant before then. Can't remember what skill level I was playing at though, but 99% likely it was tranee because I was a total noob back then and keyboard only.

I'm keyboard only too, lol

But difficutly does play a role in the boss' health, unfortunately. I don't think 30 smart mines could kill him from full health on Insane, though I would imagine it would dent him severely. Smart mines do more damage than some give them credit for. That's a nice tactic, gotta try it when I get to it

SaltySticks · Post by **SaltySticks** » Thu May 10, 2018 5:20 am

I managed to kill the L24 boss with a single Shaker and after shooting it with fully upgraded lasers for a bit. Paradoxically, the combined force of the Shaker bomblets deals more damage than a direct Shaker impact. So you fire a Shaker at a wall behind the boss' weak spot, watch them home in on the weak spot, and then pummel it with your own lasers as far as your power-ups allow it. Given the amount of Shakers in the level, I'm more inclined that killing the boss this way is unintentional and that firing Shakers directly was what the designers intended.

Krom · Post by **Krom** » Thu May 10, 2018 5:21 am

The trick is to use cruise control to creep forward really slowly and mash the drop mines button as fast as you can. Or I suppose you could use autohotkey to mash the button for you at inhuman speeds so you could drop them without using cruise, don't know if there is a limit on how fast the game will let you drop mines.