The Russia collusion...

[Burlyman]

I'm not necessarily saying the FBI isn't conducting a proper investigation on Donald Trump. What I am saying is that a rogue group within the FBI has conducted fake investigations and buried evidence in the past.

What if both Barack Obama and Donald Trump colluded with Russia? What then, ThunderBunny?

[AlexanderBorisov]

Totalitarians control the press, they don't denigrate it.

Whether you agree or not that the press has a lefty bias, the cold hard truth is that if it weren't for the free press always sniffing around the hallowed halls of power, those in control would have NO ONE to check and scrutinize their power. This country would then look just like Putin's Russia, were political opponents are assassinated, whistle bowers are imprisoned without cause and the common citizen can't even criticize their government or it leaders without nasty repercussions.

While true thing is said about Russia + that everything is in control of Secret Police, you should not exaggerate things, even in Russia there are enough ways to combat criminal/corrupt state - even for regular men and women - like not going to elections or voting against Putin. But people are lazy, don't want to think about their future and are lulled by the propaganda. As well as in most countries I believe... Otherwise how would you have Hilary and Trump as candidates in US - anyone REALLY believes they are the best choices? Everyone in both US and Russia seem to be mocking at them now... Same thing as in Russia, the good ones simply don't make it to that level...
And sorry I don't believe in free press (I mean mass-media, not individuals). And it is even not that necessary - there is enough info on the internet for the thinking person to see the real picture of most events. The real problem is, few people listen to sad truth and most want to believe the good sounding lies...

[callmeslick]

problem is, there is such an onslaught of absolute fiction on the internet, one needs critical thinking and vigilance to weed through that. We need real, honest to goodness journalists and always will if we wish some measure of freedom of thought.

[Tunnelcat]

While true thing is said about Russia + that everything is in control of Secret Police, you should not exaggerate things, even in Russia there are enough ways to combat criminal/corrupt state - even for regular men and women - like not going to elections or voting against Putin. But people are lazy, don't want to think about their future and are lulled by the propaganda. As well as in most countries I believe... Otherwise how would you have Hilary and Trump as candidates in US - anyone REALLY believes they are the best choices? Everyone in both US and Russia seem to be mocking at them now... Same thing as in Russia, the good ones simply don't make it to that level...
And sorry I don't believe in free press (I mean mass-media, not individuals). And it is even not that necessary - there is enough info on the internet for the thinking person to see the real picture of most events. The real problem is, few people listen to sad truth and most want to believe the good sounding lies...

Well, Russia will never be able to get rid of their strongman since he's made himself the corrupt dictatorial autocrat for life who never has to fear losing power or being held accountable, all because he now holds it unconditionally through manipulation, propaganda and fear. Russians will never get to taste what true freedom is really like, all because they prefer that thin but soft warm blanket of strength and power that Putin surrounds them with every night as they sleep in their beds. The old adage always holds true.

Absolute power corrupts absolutely.

At least here in the U.S., we'll have the opportunity to throw ours out on his sorry orange ass in a couple of years, or perhaps maybe even sooner if he gets impeached for crimes against the state or abuse of power. So far, he's pretty much guilty on both counts, despite the whining of his deluded thralls. And our mainstream press, imperfect and malleable as it is, is a far more trustworthy source of information about how those leaders wield that power in the performance of their duty than anything the internet rumor mill will ever put out. Especially since it's being constantly polluted by the outright fire hose of misinformation your massive Russian botnets keep spewing at us at every opportunity.

[LightWolf]

Here's a solution: Call a bipartisan (not nonpartisan) investigation. Have each party investigate separately. If they find the same, then Trump's innocence/guiltiness is determined. If not, scan the reports and figure out who's more biased.

[Tunnelcat]

Here's a solution: Call a bipartisan (not nonpartisan) investigation. Have each party investigate separately. If they find the same, then Trump's innocence/guiltiness is determined. If not, scan the reports and figure out who's more biased.

That's already happened. The Republicans have already concluded that Trump is the epitome of squeaky clean innocence, while the Dems still stand firm that Trump is a traitorous Putin puppet with grandiose and crooked schemes of building real estate in Moscow. Somewhere in between those 2 polar opposites is the truth. I'm leaning towards the Putin puppet side of things. Judge for yourself, even after everyone has pretty much concluded that Putin used a nerve agent on a Russian expat living in a foreign country. Trump wants to honor this bastard with a visit to the White House.

https://www.vox.com/2018/4/2/17188478/t ... ouse-visit

[LightWolf]

He did expel Russian diplomats though.

[AlexanderBorisov]

Maybe because Russian diplomats are so well-known for drug dealing ? There was a scandal in some South America country recently - they found couple big bags full of cocaine transferred through Russian diplomatic mail...
Seriously I don't understand that fuss about Putin or Trump personalities, because they are only symbols of power and not the power itself, which in Russian case is FSB (Federal Security Service) - former KGB, for US it should be the financial oligarchy (although I believe Russian oligarchs merged with FSB long time ago) - I don't know if the real names are known, however. And of course there is mutually beneficial agreement between Russian and US oligarchs - that's for sure.

I don't see how electing new president can do any changes to effective power behind him... So this kind of freedom is illusory.
Another sad thing about Russia elections is even if you have candidates to select from, they all don't have any meaningful political program (including Putin) - I mean, the program known to people, some good things he is supposed to achieve after being elected. How you are expected to choose - by looking at their faces? I prefer to not see most of them anyway .

[Tunnelcat]

You'll never know the pleasure of turning over presidents with honest elections until you try it. It's especially satisfying to vote out the really bad ones and watch them slink away into anonymity. You don't even know if any of the other Russian choices would have had merit because they never got the chance to run and prove themselves.

[Burlyman]

That doesn't work if public opinion is constantly swayed by psychological operations and limited information that is presented in such a way that the listener thinks he knows all there is to know. That also doesn't work if the people we're convinced into voting into power are all related to each other and we actually end up voting for the same group of people.

problem is, there is such an onslaught of absolute fiction on the internet, one needs critical thinking and vigilance to weed through that. We need real, honest to goodness journalists and always will if we wish some measure of freedom of thought.

Everyone needs to get involved, not just fake, bribed "journalists" or "special people" like politicians and media people. Even if it's just working with people who understand these things and conducting extensive background checks on said people and presenting independent findings to the masses... but I guarantee you that the death threats will come.

A lot of that content on the internet is put there by counter-intelligence agencies to make independent research seem invalid... to "muddy the waters."

[Tunnelcat]

Yep. For example.....

http://money.cnn.com/2018/04/09/technol ... index.html

[Burlyman]

https://www.rt.com/usa/425318-house-rep ... sia-probe/

Is this true?

[Tunnelcat]

https://www.rt.com/usa/425318-house-rep ... sia-probe/

Is this true?

Not a chance in hell. That's just the Republicans whitewashing Trump's Russia troubles and putting their stamp on it like everything Trump's done is all above board and legal. Not happening. Trump's in it up to his neck and hopefully soon, Mueller will show us all the gravity of the situation Trump currently sits in.

[Ferno]

Any doubt left?

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018/07 ... panel.html

[Tunnelcat]

Trump is still insisting that he believes Putin over our own intelligence agencies the last time they met. Oh! Mr. Putin nicely told me that Russia had no part in any election interference. Sucker. I guess that kind of crap passes for the truth in Trump's own twisted mind.

[Ferno]

Ever since Muller was put on the case, all I heard from the right wing was 'it's a hoax! a hoax i tells ya!'

And now?

Silence.

Those of us who saw how Trump's behaviour was influenced by Putin saw this coming miles away.

[Tunnelcat]

Me thinks quite a few Republicans have been imbibing too much from the Trump Russia-is-good-our allies-are-evil cool-aide pitcher. If we're not careful, we'll become just another Russian satellite under the thumb of Putin.

https://www.upi.com/Top_News/World-News ... 530669639/

[Ferno]

Us here in Canada are beyond livid with trump and his four year old antics, to the point where we not only slapped the USA with retalitory tarrifs but we're cancelling our trips to the states, and boycotting all american goods.

If it has 'made in the USA' on it, its sitting on the shelves. That includes anything from Ford, Chevy, Chrysler, Harley Davidson and Jack Daniels.

[Tunnelcat]

Us here in Canada are beyond livid with trump and his four year old antics, to the point where we not only slapped the USA with retalitory tarrifs but we're cancelling our trips to the states, and boycotting all american goods.

If it has 'made in the USA' on it, its sitting on the shelves. That includes anything from Ford, Chevy, Chrysler, Harley Davidson and Jack Daniels.

Well, I already paid a premium for your Canadian cedar Ferno. Thanks loads President Trump.

[Ferno]

Well, the big story just hit.