Russian Intelligence Officers Charged For Hacking DNC Emails In Major Russia Investigation Development

[Ferno]

https://www.inquisitr.com/4983923/russi ... velopment/

[Vander]

It would be nice if they would release evidence that supports a conclusion that Russia was involved in the DNC/Clinton data theft. This indictment will never go to trial, so we probably won't get to see what backs it up.

[Ferno]

They present that evidence at a trial.

[Tunnelcat]

How are they going to try them, in absentia? There's no way Putin will ever extradite high level Russian Intelligence Officers to the U.S. Trump certainly won't get anywhere asking his handler for a favor .

[Vander]

They present that evidence at a trial.

Like I said, there's little to no chance of there being a trial. And for me, the DNC data theft and alleged penetration of actual election systems are the most acute charges of the whole "Russia interfered" determination. I think trial or not, we deserve to see the actual proof the charges are based on. I consider most everything else, like "fake news" and social media influence operations fair game for Russia.

There's something to keep in mind: Putin didn't cast a ballot for Trump. Trump's voters deserve the recognized agency their voting provides for. All of the supposedly horrible things Trump has done since entering office are things he campaigned on. His vain, dishonest, incurious, and authoritarian traits were on full public display during the campaign. After a year and a half, his support within his party is very high. They want what he's doing. Do we blame Putin for that?

[Ferno]

Ah, see... Putin didn't have to cast a ballot in order to influence the election. He did what boils down to 'indirect influence'. He has a lot of resources at his disposal, including some very smart and morally flexible people. Those people created a network of bots which were programmed to amplify divisive messages on both sides, and those got eaten up by people in the states.

Put yourself in the shoes of a high-powered prosecutor who is in the news constantly. Everyone wants to see everything you have -- including those who you don't want to see the evidence, like your next suspect or suspects. You want to keep those people in the dark so they don't get the idea to destroy anything incriminating right away or collaborate with others to create a false story. It's a game of cat and mouse and you only want to give away just enough to keep prople guessing.

[Vander]

Ah, see... Putin didn't have to cast a ballot in order to influence the election.

I'm not saying Russia didn't influence the election. To some extent, I think they should be able to influence our elections. Just like I should be able to be influenced by Norway's welfare state while voting. That's all part of a global discourse. Who's fault is it that much of that discourse now takes place on platforms designed to define and categorize siloed people to best target them for perception management? My point is that it's the voters that have the actual agency in an election. If they can't or won't attempt to discern fact from fiction, then we have greater worries than Putin.

And that is a separate issue, to me, from the DNC data theft or any breach of our election infrastructure.

[Tunnelcat]

Make no mistake, what Russia did was an organized military attack. Their operation was tantamount to a declaration of war, because Putin used his own military's intelligence community to attack us on a massive scale, to use our own system against us, stupid voters be damned. We even had a Russian bot here (Sigma) trying to influence people's opinions on this board.

Vander, would you say the same thing if Russia had knocked out our entire power grid with a stroke of a key? They could do it. They've already attempted, or even succeeded at, getting malware within our power systems.

https://www.vox.com/world/2018/3/28/171 ... ear-plants

[Vander]

I see the propaganda and the direct actions as separate issues even if they were both part of the same overarching offensive, but I guess I'm doing a bad job of communicating it.

Troll farms, bots pushing disinformation, etc = I don't much care.

DNC theft, election infrastructure attack, etc (subject of this indictment) = I very much care.

The former doesn't effect the legitimacy of the election for me. The latter can. All I want is for the evidence that would support it in a court to be released sooner than later, because it's a very serious charge. You say, "tantamount to a declaration of war," so I can imagine you'd want to see the evidence as well. What I don't want is for whatever evidence there is to never be released because the case never goes to trial, and we just have to take their word for it while waiting on a FOIA request 50 years from now to see whats what.

To reiterate: it's not that I don't find it believable or even likely. (I gave it all an 8/10 a year and a half ago) I just want them to release the actual evidence.

Vander, would you say the same thing if Russia had knocked out our entire power grid with a stroke of a key? They could do it.

Yes I would want them to release the evidence that supported the claim that Russia did it?

We invading Iraq based on the dubious claims of the intelligence community only 15 years ago. Asking for evidence seems suitable.

And I swear, if everyone in the DNC doesn't at least have dual factor authentication by now, ★■◆● them.

[Tunnelcat]

OK Vander, how about a little more hands on action by a couple of Russian nationals stirring the pot and operating on our own soil? You know, actual working spies? Maria Butina was directly working for her Russian bosses in order to advance Russian state business. She and her cohort, Alexander Torshin, worked a subtle but massive effort to help entice one major party, implied to be Republicans in their messages, to befriend Russia. Then they worked on getting those they groomed elected, especially by trying to infiltrate and cozy up to the NRA, again Republicans. Butina even showed up at a 2015 Las Vegas event and asked then candidate Trump if he would drop sanctions against Russia if he were elected. From what the traitor said today in front of the world, I'm sure the answer back then was an emphatic "yes". Butina also conveniently did NOT register as a foreign agent, so the ★■◆● was technically a spy. She's just had her sorry ass arrested by the Justice Department too, all on the same day that Trump publicly and proudly worshiped all things Putin on the national stage making the U.S. look like Putin's whore.

https://www.vox.com/2018/7/16/17577838/ ... -spy-trump

Butina and Torshin even managed to convince mustachioed gun lover John Bolton, who now happens to be Trump's current national security advisor, to fall for making a fake gun rights video that they claimed was going to be shown in Russia to guns rights groups. Not in a million years under Putin's reign you stupid sucker......

https://www.npr.org/2018/03/22/59589741 ... ghts-video

[Vander]

OK Vander, how about a little more hands on action by a couple of Russian nationals stirring the pot and operating on our own soil?

You left off the part where the IRS yesterday changed rules for non-profits like the NRA so that they no longer have to disclose their donors to the IRS. It wasn't public information, but it would've certainly been available to investigators with court orders.

How much money did the NRA pump into 2016? Seems like more than just Trump getting help.

[Ferno]

Holy ★■◆●, wow. Soemone took the time to read through the entire thing.. and it is just DAMMING.

[TheWhat]

We even had a Russian bot here (Sigma) trying to influence people's opinions on this board.

What did it do post internet memes of eagles, flags, military equipment, and obese families waddling up to a Dairy Queen counter with tears in their eyes because they heard Lee Greenwood’s ‘God Bless the USA’ for the 20th time this year? Why would anyone waste resources trying to influence this message board? Who determined it was a bot?

Lol. Yea the friggin Russians are trying to sway Nightshade’s vote. For real. Hahahaha. The commies are trying to indoctrinate the children on the dbb again. Shiat muffasucka good thing you’re here to protect me from the bots trying to influence me. Jesus H Christ hahahahahaha

[Tunnelcat]

Well, he conveniently was NOT a fan of Hillary Clinton. I think he was an actual human who just couldn't get his Google Russian to English translations to work very well. He also keep plying me with cutsie music videos because he thought I was too aggressive for a woman and needed a little calming music or something to fix it.

EDIT: I will have to give him some credit. He did give me the funny picture I'm using for my avatar, although I did have the sense to NOT download it directly from him.

[Ferno]

Don't forget that the man leading this investigation, Robert Mueller, took down the mob.

[Tunnelcat]

And this is how the used-to-be hard-on-Russian-spies Party of Trump treats a true American patriot FBI agent who worked like a dog years ago to get rid of embedded Russian sleeper agents, by grilling and insulting him for hours in a Congressional hearing for something offhandedly tweeted about our traitor of a president and which turns out had no bearing on his work ethic while at the FBI.

https://www.wonkette.com/peter-strzok-t ... ve-updates

This was a Strzok tweet he made while watching the GOP Convention.

"f*ck the cheating motherf*cking Russians. "Bastards. I hate them."

"I think they're probably the worst... "F*cking conniving cheating savages. At statecraft, athletics, you name it. I'm glad I'm on Team USA."

Strzok was the agent in charge of Operation Ghost Stories.

https://www.fbi.gov/news/stories/operat ... n-spy-case

[Vander]

the used-to-be hard-on-Russian-spies Party

That was 30 years ago. Since then they've been immersed in the conservative media that exploded after the cold war where the ONE TRUE ENEMY was no longer the external Soviet threat, but their fellow citizens. The conservative base has been rolling in this dogsh!t so long they've burped up politicians that were weaned on it. Older politicians that might know better still have to be subservient to it in order to complete the goal of packing the courts with judges that will protect their dwindling constituency.

All of these assholes are soulless opportunists. Why would they really care about foreign election influence that helps them? Their (and to a lesser extent a lot of Democrats!) whole schtick is that sovereign government is bad and should be ceded to market capitalism.

The Intelligence Community are also a bunch of assholes, but at least they still seem to care if we're being co-oped by foreign assholes.

[Tunnelcat]

What a lovely state of affairs.