Apples have always been garbage...

[Nightshade]

...and so is the company. Don't know why people become Apple zombies so easily and just keep buying Apple products.

[Vander]

I've only recently converted to Apple. A couple years ago I bought a used 2012 MacBook Air off of eBay, which is still going strong. I got my first iOS device last year, an iPad mini, so that I could better familiarize myself with them for support purposes. Shortly after, my Android phone died and I got my first iPhone.

Yes, they're more expensive. Especially out of warranty repair. But AppleCare, in my experience, is a very good warranty. My laptop came with a year left on AppleCare, and shortly before it expired, I brought it in to fix a little play in the hinge. They ended up replacing the entire screen, a repair that would've cost more than I paid for the laptop in the first place.

Apple also appears to have stronger privacy protections, and a much better privacy policy than Google. That's something I'm increasingly worried about. I want to be a customer, not a product. That will probably be the reason I stick with Apple when this phone is no longer usable.

[Nightshade]

I've only recently converted to Apple. A couple years ago I bought a used 2012 MacBook Air off of eBay, which is still going strong. I got my first iOS device last year, an iPad mini, so that I could better familiarize myself with them for support purposes. Shortly after, my Android phone died and I got my first iPhone.

Yes, they're more expensive. Especially out of warranty repair. But AppleCare, in my experience, is a very good warranty. My laptop came with a year left on AppleCare, and shortly before it expired, I brought it in to fix a little play in the hinge. They ended up replacing the entire screen, a repair that would've cost more than I paid for the laptop in the first place.

Apple also appears to have stronger privacy protections, and a much better privacy policy than Google. That's something I'm increasingly worried about. I want to be a customer, not a product. That will probably be the reason I stick with Apple when this phone is no longer usable.

"Stronger privacy protections" are about as reliable as far as I can throw the company's campus.

This is why I never use my real name to "register" social media accounts such as those you need to create for your phone/laptop/tablet. They might have a profile on me by IP and contact list (to which I also give pseudonyms,) but they won't have my actual name and address.

[Vander]

Given the choice between having a required Apple ID or a required Google ID tied to my smartphone, I'm going with the company whose business model doesn't revolve around data collection. The smartphone is definitely the crown jewels in this regard.

I didn't go Apple because of that, but it's worth something to me.

Anyways, a name isn't a requirement for my worries about big data. I have to imagine any data company worth anything should be able to turn an anonymous PID into a name with some accuracy, even if they don't.

[Krom]

I hate to break it to you, but if you didn't notice iOS delivering targeted advertising then you should know that doing so with any accuracy requires a moderate to significant amount of tracking. Read the terms of service/end user agreement/privacy policies, and not just for your phone but also the apps you run on your phone and your carrier/ISP. Additionally keep in mind your options on all these policies are "agree to them" or you cannot use the device at all, ever.

Abandon any illusion that you have privacy or control over your data when you carry a smart phone from any brand or maker.

[Vander]

I'm not holding Apple up as a shining example of puppies and ice cream. But they are better in this regard than Google. Though I suppose the case can be made that Google's gonna track me anyways, so I'm just adding on.

[Krom]

The problem with that line of thinking is that iOS is a closed system, so there isn't actually any evidence they are "better" than google on privacy.

In the absence of evidence, I would default to assuming they are collecting even more telemetry than google.

[Vander]

I'm not saying iOS can't or doesn't collect and analyze the same or even more data as Android. Apple just doesn't also run an internet wide data collection and analytics operation outside of their ecosystem. Apple's control over the data collected from within their walled garden is obviously for their benefit, not mine. They aren't protecting me, they're boosting the value of the data they collect on their users vs what they allow others to collect on their users. But that ultimately benefits me by minimizing what others can collect on me. I get to keep the special analytics provided by my personal surveillance device out of the hands of Google, who attempts to track me everywhere else.

That's worth a small premium to me, even if it's all basically an exercise in futility since every major point along the stack is in the data collection game.

[Ferno]

There's a lot more you can do about tracking on a google-based system than an apple based system.

The beauty of a more open system (and I'm aware of the downsides so getting into that would be a pointless distraction seeing as it's common knowledge) is that there are authours out there creating more stringent ad/tracking blockers.

I have not seen an ad on either my mobile or pc in years, and I've given companies just enough false information to throw their algorithms into disarray - which also had an unintended effect of giving me youtube videos that i would have never dreamed of searching for.

You get what you give.

[Vander]

Before my iPhone 8, all of my Android phones were unlocked/ROM'd with either AOSP or modified version of the manufacturer's ROM. (Samsung GS3, HTC Incredible, M8, 10) I used a modified hosts file to block most ad networks outright. So I'm not without knowledge of what can be done on Android. While there's a lot that can be modified, the telemetry capturing Google Play Services cannot.

[Ferno]

That's unless you go so far as to load a custom OS.

[vision]

While there's a lot that can be modified, the telemetry capturing Google Play Services cannot.

Whether it is meaningful or not, I disable all Google apps and services. There are one or two apps I use that are only in the Play repository, but I access them with a different tool (Yalp) than Google Play. Also, my Android is in airplane mode almost all day. I have a fantasy about running LineageOS one day, but I have yet to replace my five year old phone because it still works!

[Vander]

From what I recall, I don't think it's possible to disable Google Play Services on newer versions if it's already loaded. You can disable a lot of the Google Apps, but not Google Play Services. I want to say it has been this way since they rolled a lot of the core open source stuff into Google Play Services a few years ago, maybe Kit Kat era. Sounds like your phone predates this? To get around this, you'd have to load a ROM that didn't include Google Play Services.

It was also the case that it was getting harder and harder to get around the integrity checks both Google and the manufacturers were putting into place with every new version. I haven't been following, but anyone know if the new Pixel phones are even unlockable like the old Nexus phones? (ability to load unsigned ROM's)

[Ferno]

I don't know, but I'd be very interested in finding out.

[Krom]

I can disable/uninstall google play services on my note4 at least.

[Vander]

I'm guessing uninstall will only remove updates until you get down to what shipped with the ROM, and then it will be greyed. What version of Android? Marshmallow? If so, I think that's what my last Android phone was updated to shortly before it died. Disabling was greyed out on mine, which was a Stock but rooted ROM.

[Tunnelcat]

There's an evil little app that Verizon calls a "convenience feature", although it's pretty much spyware, on their LG phones. It needs to be immediately hobbled or nuked if you have it. It's called AppFlash. Users can't uninstall the thing either and it constantly uses data in the background, so if you're not on WiFi, there goes your data limit. Users can only neuter it by disabling it and even then I'm not sure it's still not doing something nefarious in the background.

https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2017/04/u ... ll-spyware

[Vander]

Verizon also tags web traffic with a UID. You have to opt out.

[Ferno]

[Tunnelcat]

Verizon also tags web traffic with a UID. You have to opt out.

Already opted out. Whether that actually stops the tracking, who knows.

[Tunnelcat]

Watch out for this evil little piece of Mac spyware that sends your browser history to China.

https://www.pcmag.com/news/363603/this- ... er-history

[Ferno]

Apple's response to being exposed on the news.

[Nightshade]

Any company that uses unethical or abusive practices should be exposed- no matter who or what they are.

Amazon for instance. Bezos runs a slave labor business practically in terms of working conditions for his warehouse workers.

[Tunnelcat]

Fer cripes sake. Enforcing a product's early obsolescence by using the government to play the bad guy. What a lame excuse.

[Nightshade]

...there were concerns about the computer's use to invade the privacy of individuals. The conversation had is chillingly relevant today.

[TigerRaptor]

If wasn't for Xerox. I wounder what Apple would be like today.

[Burlyman]

Guys, "privacy" is a thing of the past, if it ever existed. People talk about "privacy concerns" based on the technology they do know, meanwhile there are people who can (and probably do) spy on you using your windows and mirrors from anywhere in the world and can hear and record all your conversations, actions, body movements, and even the stress that your stomach acids are exerting on the food you are eating in real time. Such people can even control your body movements and the things you say at will...

[Tunnelcat]

[Top Gun]

Guys, "privacy" is a thing of the past, if it ever existed. People talk about "privacy concerns" based on the technology they do know, meanwhile there are people who can (and probably do) spy on you using your windows and mirrors from anywhere in the world and can hear and record all your conversations, actions, body movements, and even the stress that your stomach acids are exerting on the food you are eating in real time. Such people can even control your body movements and the things you say at will...

How are you not committed.

[Ferno]

[Burlyman]

How are you not committed.

Pearls before swine. I knew it. ^_~