Attack of the drones

[woodchip]

Years ago i made a post about how eventually drone owners would have to be licensed and their drone registered much like firearms. Ferno disagreed and thought since it was a hobby people would self regulate (Ferno, please feel free to correct me if I am wrong about what you posted back then). Seems there is always, as in motorcycle gangs/clubs, the 1%er's. With the latest news of the closure of the UK's Gatwick airport for 2 days by drones flying about we now have countries looking to do just as I predicted:

In 2019, Australia will also start a scheme to register drone owners.
The UK is also due to introduce a scheme in November that will require recreational drones weighing 250g (0.55lb) or more to be registered.

https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-46672940

Like owning a firearm was once a simple and enjoyable pastime, drone ownership will become a more onerous hobby due to the hoops you will have to jump one to own and operate. Lets hope a drone doesn't bring down a airliner killing hundreds of people. If so watch how quick peoples opinions change towards drone owner/operators and how there will be a segment of people start orchestrating a ban on "assault drone"

[CDN_Merlin]

You can't expect people to police themselves. Laws are required for everything that could cause harm or something to that nature.

The US hasn't banned guns and they kill thousands a year, why would drones be any different?

[Krom]

Flying drones around airports is already illegal and has been in most countries since even before drones were a thing, and yet here we are with people still doing it deliberately. Obviously forcing people to register and license their drones becomes necessary in order to make it easier to track down people who do this stuff and prevent them from doing it again.

You do realize that in America if you shoot a gun near people or near an airport they would take away your gun and put you in jail? Even if you didn't hurt anyone. Why should flying a drone be any different?

[woodchip]

Merlin not talking about banning them (tho people will suggest this) but regulating them. Like firearm ownership, most drone owners are responsible. They will, as in Oz, have to jump thru the hoops to own and operate them. Countries like Australia may, if something bad happens, ban them entirely as they have with firearms. As to America, just remember, there is no 2nd amendment to guarantee the right to own and use drones.

[woodchip]

Flying drones around airports is already illegal and has been in most countries since even before drones were a thing, and yet here we are with people still doing it deliberately. Obviously forcing people to register and license their drones becomes necessary in order to make it easier to track down people who do this stuff and prevent them from doing it again.

You do realize that in America if you shoot a gun near people or near an airport they would take away your gun and put you in jail? Even if you didn't hurt anyone. Why should flying a drone be any different?

Except Krom, if you were licensed to conceal carry and did so to prevent someone else from killing people there. And yes ccw holders can carry into a airport main terminal and baggage areas.

[Krom]

Even a concealed carry license holder will lose their license, their guns, and their freedom from discharging near an airport.

[Top Gun]

ITT woody still masturbates over playing John Wayne

Mod here. Come on TG, try to keep on topic and be civil.

[woodchip]

Even a concealed carry license holder will lose their license, their guns, and their freedom from discharging near an airport.

Nope, not if the situation warrants it.

[woodchip]

ITT woody still masturbates over playing John Wayne

ITT TG still masturbates over making stupid replies to me. While this has somehow got sidetracked to guns, the thread is about drones. Want to talk about guns and their usage start a separate thread.

[vision]

Even a concealed carry license holder will lose their license, their guns, and their freedom from discharging near an airport.

Nope, not if the situation warrants it.

I find this interesting. I don't want to derail from the topic of drones, but is there real life example or a section of law that can be linked to show this is true about CC and airports?

My friend just bought a drone and some of the photography was pretty neat. It's too bad that every nice thing humans make gets turned into a weapon and we are forced to make laws that can be misinterpreted and abused.

[Top Gun]

ITT TG still masturbates over making stupid replies to me. While this has somehow got sidetracked to guns, the thread is about drones. Want to talk about guns and their usage start a separate thread.

If you didn't want guns to come up in some way, why the flying ★■◆● did you mention them in the OP and continue to riff on the topic after that?

[woodchip]

Even a concealed carry license holder will lose their license, their guns, and their freedom from discharging near an airport.

Nope, not if the situation warrants it.

I find this interesting. I don't want to derail from the topic of drones, but is there real life example or a section of law that can be linked to show this is true about CC and airports?

My friend just bought a drone and some of the photography was pretty neat. It's too bad that every nice thing humans make gets turned into a weapon and we are forced to make laws that can be misinterpreted and abused.

I can link where what places are exempt from ccw and unsecured airport terminals are not one of them. More specifically look up where the National Trap Assoc. holds it's nation competition match. It's held down the length of a airport runway close enough you can see planes taking off and the terminal buildings. I went there one year and was amazed at all the people and high end shops set up to sell their goods. Mostly I was amazed at the mile long stretch of individual trap stations for the competitors. Belies Kroms suggestion that shooting anywhere near a airport is banned. Also you may find it interesting that the Competitors are shooting toward the airport.

https://www.michigan.gov/msp/0,4643,7-1 ... -,00.html

https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2017/ ... in-texas/

[Tunnelcat]

You need a license to drive a car and that car also has to be licensed. You also can't drive while impaired. You don't see Americans pissed off over the regulations surrounding the driving of cars because it's an inherently dangerous operation. But talk about guns (yes woody, you brought up firearms in your first post), it's a whole different ballgame. Both can be used to kill and maim. Guess which one isn't regulated? Even private planes and pilots have to follow regulations. The powers that be also require people to get licenses to operate those planes. Now drones really should be considered as no different than light aircraft. They both can be flown quite high in public airspace, including airspace we restrict for security reasons. Fly one over or near an airport, you're going to bring down a plane full of passengers if your drone hits that plane. Ask all those people that sat for hours at Gatwick Airport, who were unable to get home because of some drone operator who thought it was fun to screw up operations at a major airport, if drones need to be regulated. Never mind if the intent was malicious, the result was the same. That's why regulations are usually put in place, to protect us from the stupid, or evil people of the world. Those are the people everyone should get pissed off about because it's them who screw things up for of us who ARE responsible.

[Krom]

TC, that second video is a "what if" video, edited by a vfx guy and even says so in the expanded description, but seriously click bait.

As for woodchip, I invite you to show up at an airport in an area where a ccw applies and brandish a gun while there is no official, sanctioned, organized shooting event going on and see how that works for you.

[Tunnelcat]

Fixed it Krom. I put in one that is factual. I didn't pay close enough attention when I looked at it the first time. It was a pretty realistically done video though.

[woodchip]

TC, that second video is a "what if" video, edited by a vfx guy and even says so in the expanded description, but seriously click bait.

As for woodchip, I invite you to show up at an airport in an area where a ccw applies and brandish a gun while there is no official, sanctioned, organized shooting event going on and see how that works for you.

Krom, kindly learn what the ccw laws are before posting. It is illegal to brandish in public no matter where you are if you posses a ccw license. Some state, if you do not have a ccw allow open carry but then that is not considered brandishing.

[woodchip]

TC

You need a license to drive a car and that car also has to be licensed. You also can't drive while impaired. You don't see Americans pissed off over the regulations surrounding the driving of cars because it's an inherently dangerous operation. But talk about guns (yes woody, you brought up firearms in your first post), it's a whole different ballgame. Both can be used to kill and maim. Guess which one isn't regulated?

Are you seriously suggesting firearms are not regulated? Try buying one and find out the paperwork you need to fill out. Try having one shipped to your home if you buy it over the internet. Commit a crime with one and find out how many extra years are added on because you used one. Now compare this to a automobile. You can buy one over the internet and I suspect you can have it delivered direct to your home. Anyone from 16 years old can get a license to drive the car by passing a simple test (yes we all went thru that ). Try getting a cpl and experience the requirements to do so. Heaven help you if you live in a "May" issue state like New York or CA. Have a drivers license and you can drive in all states and pretty much anywhere in the world, not so with carrying with a ccw license. Just for your own enlightenment TC, go out and apply for a cpl. I see that Oregon is a shall issue state so you should be able to do so successfully. Don't know the training requirements but if there is a instructor required ask him why the buying and owning firearms is so unregulated and let me know his reply.

[Ferno]

ITT woody still masturbates over playing John Wayne

ENOUGH!

As much as woody's proven to be a real problem here, I have to give him credit - he's being more reasonable this time; and that should be encouraged. But you... You did this to just stir up ★■◆●. Oh god, how I wish I could just drop the banhammer on you for being a wart like this.

Years ago i made a post about how eventually drone owners would have to be licensed and their drone registered much like firearms. Ferno disagreed and thought since it was a hobby people would self regulate (Ferno, please feel free to correct me if I am wrong about what you posted back then). Seems there is always, as in motorcycle gangs/clubs, the 1%er's.

At the time, I was under the impression that hobbyists would take it upon themselves to police each other. That still holds true. However, during then and now, there has been a split between hobbyists and 'off the street' owners exclusively buying phantoms and other ready-built equipment. The ones that just want to buy something and not bother to learn the ins-and-outs of the hobby and more specifically its etiquette, are the ones that are painting the entire segment in a bad light. The shitburgers taking a good thing and ruining it.

So hobbyists have taken a different approach. They're ostracizing those who are buying phantoms and not taking the time to learn what it means to own a model aircraft. I have no idea if this is going to work but if it ends up putting hobbyists and lawmakers on the same side, then I'm all for it.


Since TC has posted a video of drone damage, and it's been shown to be clickbait, I can add something to that part. There's been at least two documented drone strikes against aircraft - one being a helicopter. Damage? Minor at worst. The pilot was able to land safely, and the aircraft was operational the next day.

[vision]

... I have to give him credit ...

I agree, he's making good arguments and backing them up with credible sources. I don't care what his political leanings are, I care about reasoned debate, which historically has been in short supply here.

[Tunnelcat]

TC

You need a license to drive a car and that car also has to be licensed. You also can't drive while impaired. You don't see Americans pissed off over the regulations surrounding the driving of cars because it's an inherently dangerous operation. But talk about guns (yes woody, you brought up firearms in your first post), it's a whole different ballgame. Both can be used to kill and maim. Guess which one isn't regulated?

Are you seriously suggesting firearms are not regulated? Try buying one and find out the paperwork you need to fill out. Try having one shipped to your home if you buy it over the internet. Commit a crime with one and find out how many extra years are added on because you used one. Now compare this to a automobile. You can buy one over the internet and I suspect you can have it delivered direct to your home. Anyone from 16 years old can get a license to drive the car by passing a simple test (yes we all went thru that ). Try getting a cpl and experience the requirements to do so. Heaven help you if you live in a "May" issue state like New York or CA. Have a drivers license and you can drive in all states and pretty much anywhere in the world, not so with carrying with a ccw license. Just for your own enlightenment TC, go out and apply for a cpl. I see that Oregon is a shall issue state so you should be able to do so successfully. Don't know the training requirements but if there is a instructor required ask him why the buying and owning firearms is so unregulated and let me know his reply.

You're forgetting that I'm a gun owner and that I'm not anti-gun. But there is a segment of the gun world that is totally unregulated. It's referred to as either the "gun show loophole" or more accurately the "private gun sale loophole". Guns sold this way cannot be tracked unless a serial number happens to be in some database. In fact, my pistol was legally bought years ago when paper was all that was filed as the registration at the local store. Plus I bought it when I lived in another state. Since the gun shop I bought it from no longer exists, it's quite likely that it's serial number was tossed out and is no longer in anyone's database. Paper has a way of disappearing, even in the government. No one knows I own it since I've never registered it in Oregon, nor is there a requirement to do so. However, if I bring my car in from another state, I have to register it if I move to that state or be fined for driving an unregistered car. However as a nod to your position, I'm not sure what would happen if I had to use my pistol to defend myself in my own home. The authorities would know about it at that point since it was fired in self defense.

https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-mete ... show-loop/

[Tunnelcat]

Ferno, there is another example of a confirmed drone strike on an Aeromexico passenger jet that was landing when the strike happened. The drone blew apart the plane's radome in the nose. 2 feet higher and it would have taken out the pilots. I'm sure it was an easy repair, but......

[Ferno]

Ferno, there is another example of a confirmed drone strike on an Aeromexico passenger jet that was landing when the strike happened. The drone blew apart the plane's radome in the nose. 2 feet higher and it would have taken out the pilots. I'm sure it was an easy repair, but......

Going off by what you said, that's a birdstrike.

[Krom]

Krom, kindly learn what the ccw laws are before posting. It is illegal to brandish in public no matter where you are if you posses a ccw license. Some state, if you do not have a ccw allow open carry but then that is not considered brandishing.

This is exactly my point, brandishing a firearm in public is very similar to flying a drone near an airport without permission. Granted you would have to actually fire the gun blindly into the air for it to be exactly the same, but you can get why it is and should be illegal.

Basically all they are talking about is trying to figure out a way to enforce the law that already exists, because currently it is incredibly difficult to enforce. I fly RC aircraft and I really wouldn't have an issue registering them because I wouldn't do dangerous, stupid and illegal stuff like flying one in commercial airspace.

The funny thing is there is a group here in town that with permission goes out every Sunday to the regional airport and fly a bunch of RC aircraft. And most RC aircraft shows happen at airports, because for events like that and your shooting example; sometimes you just need a runway.

[Flatlander]

Links regarding the drone that hit a US Army helicopter in September 2017:
Civilian drone crashes into Army helicopter
NTSB Investigate DJI Phantom Drone Collision With US Army Helicopter
NTSB Aviation Incident Final Report

The Aeromexico flight radome incident earlier this month is alleged to be a drone strike, but has not been confirmed. It could have been a bird strike or radome failure.

Aeromexico Boeing 737-800 sustained serious damage as it allegedly collided with a drone on approach to Tijuana International Airport, Mexico according to local media
ASN Wikibase Occurrence # 219435

Some information from the FAA about operating Unmanned Aircraft Systems:

Getting Started
Register Your Drone

[Tunnelcat]

Ferno, there is another example of a confirmed drone strike on an Aeromexico passenger jet that was landing when the strike happened. The drone blew apart the plane's radome in the nose. 2 feet higher and it would have taken out the pilots. I'm sure it was an easy repair, but......

Going off by what you said, that's a birdstrike.

They're investigating the incident as a drone strike, although no final conclusions have yet been given.

https://www.mercurynews.com/2018/12/14/ ... drone-hit/

I guess time will tell us if drones are really a hazard to aviation. I'm guessing small drones wouldn't be a serious threat, unless it was ingested into an engine upon takeoff.

[Ferno]

That story isn't helping matters.

Just by looking at the damage caused, alone, that was caused by something heavy and compact. Two things a drone is not.

And upon further digging around on that story, they're presenting conflicting information. It makes me suspicious they're trying to push fear-mongering over facts.

[Burlyman]

You can't expect people to police themselves. Laws are required for everything that could cause harm or something to that nature...

That's mainly because people are generally lazy, ignorant, weak, apathetic, selfish cowards

Might have to make an amendment for drones. :3

[Tunnelcat]

You missed the fact that a few are evil as well.