Descent: The countdown development thread

[TRUEpiiiicness]

About two weeks ago I was thinking about The Countdown (LL Level 23) and I thought, 'I wonder what D1 would be like if it was like that'
So I've decided to do it.
It's going to be similar to LightWolf's Descent 2: First strike. (Speaking of that, I would like permission to use that to build off of because I can't do the file stuff. (Basically the music.))
As well as that, there will be a retheming of the levels, texture alignment fixes and d2 robots+weapons. But most importantly, geometry changes to incorporate the reactor at the start of the level. (I was thinking It could go in a room that references the rest of the level, for example a mini tower with the reactor inside it for lvl 12.)
There will also be more invulnerabilities placed at strategic locations in all levels. To make it more spicy, you still have to defeat the bosses.

Here is a demo containing levels 1-7. These may or may not look and/or play different in the future.

[LightWolf]

Were you just looking for the non-level technical stuff (like music) or the my version of the actual levels themselves (which would be quite brutal in countdown mode)? If it's just the former, I could just give you a rundown (and anyone else who wants) of how to do that stuff, then you could do a linear port that would be more faithful to the original First Strike. If you're looking for the actual levels, I'm generally not opposed, though I would like a piece of the action. I would also ask that you do something different with secret level 2 (which I made into a countdown level) than what I did.

P.S. As a general rule you will need to be 2-5x more conscious of cold start runners than I generally am as it is easy to be forced into such a situation given how quickly one mistake means goodbye weapons. Also make sure to provide plenty of lives (or alternatively have exactly one hidden in each level), especially early on (you can just burn them later).

Edit: Music-wise I think a sped-up version of the tracks would be quite nice, especially since it would enhance the frantic mood.

[TRUEpiiiicness]

I'm looking for the music. I am just using your mission set as a base for the music because the music is already there. (I really can't do file work.) I'm just going to strip everything that has changed like the extra walls, triggers and matcens. Then I'll retheme all levels, change the robots and power ups. Then lastly add cubes for the reactor at start of the level. Add doors if needed to open when it blows.

I've already started step 1, but if it is a no go for using your set as a base, I'll still finish it, but I simply won't release it.

To be more specific, reverting it back to D1 THEN paying my changes.

[TRUEpiiiicness]

I would also ask that you do something different with secret level 2 (which I made into a countdown level) than what I did.

I could turn that back into a normal level and move the exit to where the red key is and change the time to an appropriate amount.

[TRUEpiiiicness]

Were you just looking for the non-level technical stuff (like music) or the my version of the actual levels themselves (which would be quite brutal in countdown mode)? If it's just the former, I could just give you a rundown (and anyone else who wants) of how to do that stuff.

I am making a demo consisting of the first three levels as well. I just remembered that when you save as under a new name it treats it as if it is a completely new mine.
So I do need to do file work after all. The thing is I don't know how. Is there a step by step guide anywhere on how to sort the music and put levels in a set?

[LightWolf]

(Posting this here for now; I might make a separate topic later)

You will need access to a HOG editor (files; your level editor of choice generally comes with one) as well as a text editor (level order - most level editors have a "mission editing" feature that is functionally the same, though DLE likes to mess up secret levels sometimes).

For the HOG you will simply need to add every file you plan to use via the add function of your HOG editor. Music is generally named "gamexx.hmp" where xx is the level number. If it's in midi format make sure to get an ancient (or virtual) machine running nothing later than XP and convert it (no converters work post-XP, unconfirmed on x32 post-XP operating systems); if you're using stock music you can just copy the HMPs from the original mission. You will also need to provide a descent.sng file (externally works for every engine, though Rebirth can read it from the HOG).

For descent.sng, just copy the one that comes with descent and edit the "gamexx" lines. From what I've seen, once it reaches the end of the level music it starts over from game01; however to be sure it works with everything you should make sure every level gets a track. Secret level tracks start from level 2 and follow the same rules (secret level 1 gets the level 2 track, SL2 gets the L3 track, etc.) Make sure that everything gets a form of melodic and drum after it even though these only matter in the original engine.

Open the MSN/MN2 for your mission with the text editor. The only lines that really matter in terms of level order is the num_missions and num_secrets sections. num_missions is followed by a number; make sure there are exactly that many level files listed after. num_secrets is the same way; however you also add a comma followed by the normal level which links to that level (first such level in the case of D2).

Did that answer your questions?
Did that confuse you at all? (I just wrote this now )

[TRUEpiiiicness]

Thanks a bunch for the help.

I do have a couple of questions:

For the HOG

So far ive put the levels in a set and does successfully go from one to the next. I noticed .clr and .lgt files. What do these do? Are they important?

For descent.sng

Ive tried to import it back in to my mission set after changing it but I don't see it when I look in the folder where it's located. How do I resolve this?

[TRUEpiiiicness]

Just a quick update.
Unfortunately I have found (probably created) a serious issue with the secret levels where you can go into them fine, but if you try and come out it fails to load the mission again so you stay in the secret level with a side effect if a lot of the textures have glitched BADLY. If you have saved before that, it will be unloadable.

I've got the music sorted. Turns out that was defaulted to view only .rl2 files after I found a dropdown box which can choose what type of file to view.

EDIT: After adding the music, the portal from secret level 1 to level 10 mysteriously worked flawlessly. Maybe it was trying to play music that didn't exist or something.

Also, panic over.

[Alter-Fox]

Yeah Descent's handling of midi music has always been *really* buggy -- that somehow got a reputation as just a D2X-XL thing but it stretches as far back as the DOS games.
You don't notice it in the game proper so much because, for one, when a game crashes or glitches out the music is generally not the first thought on anyone's mind; and for two, Parallax managed to find basically a couple of workarounds which avoid most of these bugs in the main game. Sadly that means the bugs are still there, and apparently quite difficult to fix in the here and now.

[LightWolf]

CLR and LGT files are XL-specific lightmap files generated by DLE.
Also what Alter said.

Going back to using my levels, I have made a number of structural changes beyond simply adding walls (albeit mostly secret-related), as well as changing around various doors to do various things.

I don't really mind if you use my levels in any capacity, but I want a piece of the dev action

[TRUEpiiiicness]

CLR and LGT files are XL-specific lightmap files generated by DLE.

That's fine then. I don't need to worry about ever again because I will probably never make an xl level.

A piece of the dev action

This is probably a silly question, but what do you mean by that? I know about crediting but I do not know what you mean by 'dev action'.

[LightWolf]

XL uses those files for lighting standard levels as well. If you use my levels you will need those to preserve the custom lighting effects I added to some levels.

A piece of the dev action was just on-the-spot shorthand for a piece of the action during development. A bit less inclusive than co-developing, but along the same lines.

At minimum I get to be an early beta tester (though ideally I'd wanna actually do one of the levels, and since I know the general ins-and-outs of my version of the levels...)

I should clarify that this is mainly for if you use the levels themselves. The music etc. is pretty much entirely from Parallax, so there's no real difference ripping that from D2FS vs. original D1.

[TRUEpiiiicness]

A piece of the dev action was just on-the-spot shorthand for a piece of the action during development.

Alrighty then.

At minimum I get to be an early beta tester (though ideally I'd wanna actually do one of the levels, and since I know the general ins-and-outs of my version of the levels...)

I can do the 3 level demo, then you will see the general idea of the set. You can choose any level you want btw.
The only thing I'm probably gonna keep from your levels is the location of the guide bot cell. Even so, I might move that into the newly made reactor room (which will reference somewhere in the corresponding D2CS level) at the start of each level.
The reason for using your levels is all the sorting through files when one converts D1 levels to D2 because I don't think it deletes the .rdl files. (maybe some others that I don't remember.)

[TRUEpiiiicness]

The demo is here: http://www.enspiar.com/dmdb/viewMission.php?id=1727

[Alter-Fox]

Should be an interesting one to see speedrunners do since any death after reactor destruction will be either a game over or a jump to the next map.

[TRUEpiiiicness]

Should be an interesting one to see speedrunners do since any death after reactor destruction will be either a game over or a jump to the next map.

They would probably have to find the extra lives hidden in each level.

[TRUEpiiiicness]

They would probably have to find the extra lives hidden in each level.

That reminds me... I forgot to put small secrets in level 3. That will be fixed in the full version.

[LightWolf]

I think as it stands extra lives are too easy to get. There will come a point where lives become meaningless (specifically when you have more lives than there are levels), and as it stands that point will come way too early. IMO there should be at most one life per level, and as one of the harder (if not hardest) secrets to find to give them more value later in the mission.

[ShivanHunter]

Cool levels!

Seconded what LightWolf said - in the later levels, especially on harder difficulties, you'll start getting multiple extra lives per level on points alone. You probably don't want players to be able to play the first several levels legit and then suicide through the rest of it.

[TRUEpiiiicness]

I've just found a small problem: bosses seem to completely replace the reactor so when a boss is in the mine, the reactor disappears.
As a result I've placed a replacement red fatty jr and made it shoot the same stuff as the red fatty. But I think it will break the game for rebirth 0.60 users.
This was the problem for brimstone research lab rl1096. (As I found out from a particular person) In that I made fusion hulks fire fusion plus earth shaker childs but the level crashed to desktop.
How do I prevent this so that The Countdown can be played with the 'bosses'?

[LightWolf]

Just disable boss AI and make them do... something.

I was going to suggest dropping a key, but after level 2 all the keys are always taken, so that's not going to work. If this were in D2X-XL, then you could use things like object triggers, but I don't think that'll work.

I had a thought that might work to get a boss in. Testing now. Even if it does work, there really is no way to require the boss to be destroyed as destroying the reactor opens the exit. If all else fails, you could make the bosses something which the goal is to avoid rather than destroy. (That might be interesting actually - have boss levels have tough, heavily-armed robots scattered throughout and make those levels into stealth missions.) If you really want a boss that needs defeated, you could replace the red key with a switch and give the robot a red key.

[TRUEpiiiicness]

As of now in level 7 the exit is opened with the red key which the boss drops. The old red key location now has a control panel which opens the red door.

As for the robots scattered about, maybe in one particular room that can sometimes be avoided have more dangerous bots than the rest of the level. In the very early levels that can be a single boarhead.
I've put in a mini reactor for a kind of turret in the room with the dome.

[LightWolf]

Turns out my theory was right.

If you add two reactors, only one gets removed. The other will not fire, but it will start the countdown. When the boss is destroyed, the timer restarts. The boss still carries out its AI routines, though it did consistently not make constant noise until it teleported.

If you do this, I'd recommend stacking the two reactors exactly on top of each other so that you are guaranteed to get the correct reactor in the level. Descent removes the first reactor on the list, however I don't know if DLE's sorting system sorts the actual object list or just sorts what it shows you.

[TRUEpiiiicness]

So does one reactor disappear or does it stay when there is two? I never got to the one in level 7s boss room because I saw the one that I placed and went back to DLE to attempt to solve the issue.

[LightWolf]

One disappears, the other stays.

[TRUEpiiiicness]

Section 1 is finally done! (1-7)
It's all going very well so far

Btw I'm going to make a release thread when the mission is done so development and reviews are kept separate. I'll rename this one

[LightWolf]

Gonna release another demo?

[TRUEpiiiicness]

Maybe I'll release up to lvl 7 then thats it for the demos.
Just a bit of tweaking required then it'll be up.

[TRUEpiiiicness]

The updated demo is here! Now with levels up to seven and additional tweaked to other levels.
http://www.enspiar.com/dmdb/viewMission.php?id=1728

[LightWolf]

Quick thing I noticed - in level 7, the medium hulk physics are broken. DLE sets things' mass to 0 if you edit anything on the physics tab, so any edits of that form should be done in another program like RBoTEdit.

[TRUEpiiiicness]

I just tested it and it's barely noticeable so I think I'll leave it like that.
It's weird though because I never edited anything on the physics tab.

[LightWolf]

What did you edit?

Also it's quite noticable if you use a flash missile or two.

[TRUEpiiiicness]

Literally nothing except positions for some robots

[LightWolf]

You must have accidentally bumped something then.

[TRUEpiiiicness]

It's a good job the plasma is introduced on level 7 in it's big secret so you can use that to make them stay still.

[LightWolf]

If you hit "default" with a medium hulk selected it will fix them.

[TRUEpiiiicness]

Thanks for the tip.

There are still a few things in DLE I haven't looked at yet like the flashing lights tab. I might explore that next and see if I can make something interesting.

[LightWolf]

At least for me, Descent actually plays backwards from how they're defined in DLE (or rather DLE defines them backwards), so be careful about that.

[TRUEpiiiicness]

I'm going to make a non-countdown version of this since it will work as that and so people can enjoy the mines as a normal descent game.
Just as a nice bonus.

[TRUEpiiiicness]

I've hit double figures now. A third of the way there!