Pelosi, Impeach Trump

Tunnelcat · Post by **Tunnelcat** » Fri Apr 26, 2019 8:44 pm

So the Dems are just sitting on their butts, flailing their hands and arguing between each other about whether or not to impeach President Trump while their exalted leader, Nancy Pelosi, states to everyone: "Not at this time". Come on already. Do you want continued support from your party? We're getting fed up with your waffling. Do you need the evidence gift wrapped and handed to you on a damned silver platter? Mueller already did all the hard work for you. It's now sitting in your laps. ACT ON IT! It's now up to House to do their jobs, a duty granted to them and required of them by the Constitution. Hold this clearly immoral president accountable for his actions. Trump is nothing but a stain upon the office that will take forever to remove even after he's long gone. If Clinton had done even a smidgen of this crazy stuff, the Republicans would have already nailed her to the wall.

I mean, when even a Trump sycophant and TV lawyer personality on Fox News says Trump obstructed justice and called his actions "immoral" after years of defending him, Trump definitely obstructed justice. And since his message was anti-Trump, Fox News of course has long since pulled this very unflattering video from their site. But too bad. The internet has a nasty habit of keeping things around for a very long time.

vision · Post by **vision** » Sat Apr 27, 2019 12:16 pm

The Democratic party exists as part of a good-cop, bad-cop relationship with the population. They don't give a ★■◆● and don't have our best interests in mind. They are nearly as corrupt as the Republican party. Zero of them are talking about fixing the flaws with FPTP voting. Zero of them are taking meaningful action to root our corruption in government.

Remember how Bush Jr (The guy I voted for) started a war and everyone wanted it to stop and the Democrats just ignored it when they got control of the legislative branch? Yeah, same thing. If they push too hard on removing corrupt Republicans they they will inevitably ruin the gravy train they feed off of. ★■◆● them and ★■◆● the entire Republican Party while we're at it.

Krom · Post by **Krom** » Sat Apr 27, 2019 1:45 pm

Also a move to impeach when the senate remains a republican majority with Trump holding a 90% approval rating among republicans means it would be a wasted effort. Better to take him down in an election than burn up precious time and energy on a measure that is guaranteed to fail (and highly probable to backfire).

Tunnelcat · Post by **Tunnelcat** » Sat Apr 27, 2019 6:30 pm

As a moderator on this board, I apologize in advance for my next heartfelt diatribe.

I agree wholeheartedly with you vision. The 2 main parties are nothing but a couple of corrupt political machines that only exist to feed off those who give them the most money and political favors. That's why I absolutely loathed the idea of Pelosi becoming House leader. She doesn't represent change or someone who will fight for US, the people. She's old guard and stuck in the political process. That's also why I abhor the idea of Joe Biden becoming the main presidential candidate for the Dems in 2020. The Dems are getting all excited for his prospects. Sad. Not to knock the integrity of Joe Biden, but what a waste of anyone's vote who wants real change in the country IMHO. He's part of the old guard and frankly, just plain MOSS, more of the same ★■◆● we voters keep getting served up every time we elect these cookie cutter stuck-on-the-same-old-rails party politicians. The Dems or Independents now need THEIR Trump revolution, only we need to elect a person who's not a pathological foul-mouthed draft-dodging lying-sack-of-★■◆● idiot egomaniac who prefers business dealings with Russia and licking the boots of the world's dictators more than defending and promoting our own allies. A man who see's himself above the law and more a dictator than someone who was elected as president of the people in a Democracy. For example, the bastard just recently at one of his stupid boner rallies called the Mueller investigation an attempted coup. Dollars to donuts he'll use the exact same phrase if the House ever gets around to impeaching him.

To be fair, I can see why a lot of Republicans voted for Trump in 2016. I know they did it all in the vain and desperate attempt to elect someone who wasn't part of the Washington machine and who would do something for THEM. Anyone but Hillary. But Gawd, the joke's on them and all of us. Trump turned out to be the worst corrupt monster of all history, a president who's hoodwinked everyone and managed to grow the swamp even bigger than it was before and who is now feeding off of it to his and sleazebag family's benefit. Certainly not the people's. He's a vile man who's actively working to destroy the office of the president and our nation's rule of law. If the Republicans think that's now OK, think long and hard about the future. What you now sow, so shall you later reap. And the Republican Party that surrounds Trump and protects him like a pack of rabid dogs slavering for approval and power continues their downward slide into that foul morass of hypocrisy and corruption, a place they so now deserve. I used to occasionally vote for Republicans because sometimes they made more sense, but never again. They've gone waaaay off their rockers. I hope they all rot in Hell. Same with the Dems if they don't put up someone in 2020 who's young, strong, full of new ideas and different from the political norm and who's willing to blow up the party old guard for the good of the country and the people.

Krom, it would not be a wasted effort to impeach Trump. The Dems aren't going to get any meaningful legislation passed with the Repubs holding the Senate anyway, so why not hold this lying corrupt turd of president to account for his actions, even if it's only for show? It'll prove to all of us they have some damned backbone instead of being a bunch of snowflakes. They need to put the fires of justice to the feet a clearly corrupt president who's now been shown to have abused the powers of his office. If they don't, they'll end up failing as an opposition party for a long time. All those women who were recently elected to the House did not happen out of the blue. Women voters everywhere were fed up, wanted change, wanted to send a pointed message and make something happen, even if it's only a little revenge. I mean, the Republicans impeached Bill Clinton for LYING under oath about personal sex. So now Trump obstructs justice by LYING to anyone and everyone and ordering anyone and everyone around him to do the same damned thing just to protect his own butt and now it's a waste of time to bring him to account? Give me a break. I DON'T THINK SO. The taxpayers PAID for Mueller's report and it turned out to be quite an eyeful. Let's put it to the use it was intended for, to have Congress do their duty and impeach a morally corrupt president, even if it's only to send a message. At least it will get under that asswipe's orange skin and will make the last years of his presidency a miserable ★■◆●. Hallelujah. It''ll also PROVE to me the Dems are worth voting for in 2020. I want my pound of flesh and if they don't bring some forth, they can kiss my ass in 2020.

Vander · Post by **Vander** » Sat Apr 27, 2019 6:40 pm

Krom wrote:Also a move to impeach when the senate remains a republican majority with Trump holding a 90% approval rating among republicans means it would be a wasted effort. Better to take him down in an election than burn up precious time and energy on a measure that is guaranteed to fail (and highly probable to backfire).

I don't get this reasoning. At all. What, exactly, should a Dem controlled House do with their precious time and energy?

Krom · Post by **Krom** » Sat Apr 27, 2019 7:13 pm

They could put forward real tax reform that simplifies things and closes the 70,000 pages of loopholes, immigration reform, healthcare reform, tighten up gun laws, environmental protection, campaign reform, lobbying reform, net neutrality, etc. There are a ton of real issues out there that very much matter to potential voters of Democrat candidates that if they keep in focus could win them elections consistently.

Even if none of it can pass the senate, it still becomes real political ammunition for 2020 that Trump can't so easily twist around.

Vander · Post by **Vander** » Sat Apr 27, 2019 8:28 pm

Why do you consider impeachment proceedings different than any of those other issues? They can still be handled by their respective committees. They aren't mutually exclusive. The Judiciary committee is going to hold hearings on this stuff anyways, why not do it with the added legal authority an impeachment inquiry provides? They need to stop dicking around and USE POWER.

LightWolf · Post by **LightWolf** » Sat Apr 27, 2019 9:04 pm

Re everyone's corrupt:

This is part of why I've been saying for a while moderates need to get off their lazy butts and vote. Otherwise the race just becomes extreme left vs. extreme right - and it's been shown repeatedly that extreme poles on either side of the political spectrum holding leadership positions, especially in such a diverse and (as of late) divisible people like the U.S., cause problems, particularly in the form of putting their vision above the people.

The Founders saw this issue a lightyear away. They tried to stop political factions who put themselves above the people. The primary reason something like this happens today is because the people who don't follow the poles of the spectrum really could care less. Of course the answer to the problems caused by one pole is the other pole, and its problems are solved by the one pole. Someone (actually a large group of someones) needs to break the cycle. Even if we can't directly pick the president (which I think was a good call by the way - but that's another topic), we can still choose in the primaries the candidate who is center-of-left or center-of-right rather than the opposite, or at the very least those that put the good of the people above the good of their career.

Krom · Post by **Krom** » Sun Apr 28, 2019 5:43 am

Because impeachment will consume everything else, nothing moves forward while that is going on.

Impeaching Trump because he obstructed justice would be a valid thing to do...if Republicans gave a damn, but they clearly don't. Do you think they care that Trump is an evil lying criminal slimeball? Honesty? Character? Integrity? Justice? What a joke. They don't give a ★■◆● at all, all that matters to them is Trump is a Republican and hates all the same groups (Iran, gays, democrats, immigrants, etc). They will vote for him even if the country was literally burning to the ground and he was running around spraying napalm everywhere. (Which really, is pretty much happening already.)

If they can manage to impeach him without sucking all the air out of everything else and overshadowing all the other very serious problems the country and the world are facing, then by all means go for it. But we all know it will consume all the time and energy then Republicans will kill it anyway and Trump will use it to rile up his base for the reelection.

I just think there are smarter things to do than play political chicken with a bunch of reality warping lunatics.

Vander · Post by **Vander** » Sun Apr 28, 2019 10:14 am

Krom wrote:Because impeachment will consume everything else, nothing moves forward while that is going on.

Krom wrote:If they can manage to impeach him without sucking all the air out of everything else and overshadowing all the other very serious problems the country and the world are facing, then by all means go for it. But we all know it will consume all the time and energy then Republicans will kill it anyway and Trump will use it to rile up his base for the reelection.

Trump is going to do this, whether or not there's an impeachment inquiry. There isn't going to miraculously be more oxygen if Democrats fail to meet this head on. In 2018, Dems mostly ran on healthcare, and 'wait for Mueller' was used to note that something is being done to address Trump's unfitness. That option simply isn't available now, and they will still need to be able to point to something being done. More than that, something actually has to be done! If they aren't going to actually use the power bestowed, what's even the point? What does that say about the other issues you've mentioned?

It's kind of shocking to me that we're discussing how having a comically corrupt President is politically inconvenient for Democrats. That we somehow should minimize this circumstance.

Krom · Post by **Krom** » Sun Apr 28, 2019 11:02 am

Mostly I'm remembering something from 2016 when someone commented about how Trump committed political suicide about three times a week and still just wouldn't die. Republicans don't care that he is comically corrupt and unfit. It is not "like" Trump is above the law, it is concrete fact that he is above the law.

Keep the investigations going, keep showing how comically corrupt and unfit he is but don't waste time trying to directly kill the undying. You have to look at the recent midterms in Wisconsin, democrats did win all the state wide races but by very narrow margins with incredibly high turnout. Impeachment is not going to move the electorate, democrats need something better.

Tunnelcat · Post by **Tunnelcat** » Sun Apr 28, 2019 4:40 pm

Americans are going to get what they deserve come 2020, some piece of crap party-crowned nominee who doesn't deserve to win the office.

Last May, 48% of Americans wanted to see Trump impeached.

https://thehill.com/homenews/administra ... hing-trump

Today, it's down to 37%. WTF!

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics ... ee2a0047ed

So Krom is probably right, the Dems wouldn't touch impeachment with a 10 foot pole before the upcoming presidential election, because as we all know, the Dems don't make any moves unless the polls are in their favor. As long as there are Americans willing to worship a zombie, no one will be willing to put a stake in that zombie's heart. Now I understand how evil men rise to positions of power and destroy a country.

For everyone's entertainment, the hypocrisy shitshow of our U.S. political parties. A president is guilty and impeachable ONLY if he's from the other party. Democrats deserve the moniker "snowflake" and Republicans deserve their moniker, "spineless hypocrites". In fact, in 1999, you could have switched the above monikers for each party and still been accurate. This very BS is why I voted against the Dems back in 2000. I hope enough Republicans see through this hypocrisy in 2020 and vote against their own tainted party, even if it's for an Independent. Same with the Dems if the House goes snowflake on impeachment. In fact, I'm going to re-register asap as an Independent from now on.

Vander · Post by **Vander** » Mon Apr 29, 2019 11:31 am

Krom wrote:Keep the investigations going, keep showing how comically corrupt and unfit he is but don't waste time trying to directly kill the undying.

Why do the investigations at all if they're too weak to actually do anything about what they find?

Tunnelcat wrote:Today, it's down to 37%. WTF!

I don't think polls matter much at the moment. Barr's spin had weeks to sink in as conventional wisdom before anyone actually saw Mueller's report. Quite simply, the Dems need to make their case and drive the polls, not be driven by them.

Tunnelcat · Post by **Tunnelcat** » Mon Apr 29, 2019 1:43 pm

Unfortunately, the Democratic Party seems to take the polls as a road to follow, not a trail to blaze. So I'm willing to bet that they go all snowflake and let the Republicans keep rubbing the Mueller investigation in their faces like a bunch of gleeful morons, hoping instead for a victory in 2020. If they don't get a backbone and stand firm, they're screwed. If I were a betting person, I'd lay odds against whoever they manage to nominate. They think they have a sure win with Biden, but I wouldn't stake the next presidency on it. If people thought Bill Clinton wore a Teflon suit, no one should underestimate Trump because he's made out of a solid block of Teflon. It will take an inordinate amount of effort make something stick to that crooked bastard and way more effort than the Dems seem to want to put forth. I mean, they pretty much anointed Hillary 2016 thinking she was a shoe in and then sat back mouths agape when she tanked election night. Duh.

So this is my message to the Dems. We PAID for the Mueller Report. It found that Trump obstructed justice in many forms. I want you bozos to get off your snowflake butts and impeach Trump for the good of what's left of our presidency, even if it's only for show. If you don't, you are doing your party and the country a huge disfavor.

Tunnelcat · Post by **Tunnelcat** » Tue Apr 30, 2019 4:01 pm

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/ar ... mp/580468/

Tunnelcat · Post by **Tunnelcat** » Tue Apr 30, 2019 9:35 pm

Time to impeach both Trump and his coverup general, William Barr.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/na ... story.html

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/30/us/p ... tw-nytimes

woodchip · Post by **woodchip** » Fri May 03, 2019 5:09 am

Um....just what would they impeach Trump for? Collusion? Nope. Obstruction? Nope. What exactly was Trumps crime. Try comparing Trump to Tricky Dick where actual crimes were committed. Until you can find a actual crime and if after 3 years and 30 million dollars someone like Mueller couldn't, all I can say is lotsa luck.

Vander · Post by **Vander** » Fri May 03, 2019 6:58 am

woodchip wrote:Um....just what would they impeach Trump for? Collusion? Nope. Obstruction? Nope.

Obstruction, at the very least. Emoluments. Abuse of power.

Until you can find a actual crime

Individual-1 is an un-indicted co-conspirator in a crime for which someone is going to prison. If the President were a Governor, he'd likely already be in jail for just this one thing.

Tunnelcat · Post by **Tunnelcat** » Fri May 03, 2019 12:19 pm

Here's Mueller's March 27th letter to AG Barr expressing his displeasure at Barr's public presentation of the investigation results. Barr pretty much sugarcoated Mueller's findings to the public when he didn't need to (unless he was protecting Trump of course) because Mueller had already created several succinct summaries that were fit for public consumption. But Barr ignored all that nicely already prepared work and instead gave the public his own biased interpretation by claiming Trump was not guilty of anything. The only reason Mueller didn't indict Trump for obstruction of justice is because he thought that was a job for Congress. In other words, Mueller didn't think he had the power to indict a sitting president and from Mueller's report, it looks like he had enough evidence to indict Trump for obstruction of justice. Even Judge Napolitano thought so in that video that Fox decided had to be taken down.

https://www.npr.org/2019/05/01/71900445 ... his-report

vision · Post by **vision** » Fri May 03, 2019 1:18 pm

woodchip wrote: ↑Fri May 03, 2019 5:09 amWhat exactly was Trumps crime.

You seem to have not only a misunderstanding of what impeachment is, but also a serious case of delusion.

woodchip · Post by **woodchip** » Fri May 03, 2019 3:16 pm

Vander wrote: ↑Fri May 03, 2019 6:58 am
woodchip wrote:Um....just what would they impeach Trump for? Collusion? Nope. Obstruction? Nope.
Obstruction, at the very least. Emoluments. Abuse of power.

Nope. Mueller spent 3 years and as far as I read, none of those are in his 400 page report. You have something specific? Source?

Until you can find a actual crime

Vander wrote: ↑Fri May 03, 2019 6:58 amIndividual-1 is an un-indicted co-conspirator in a crime for which someone is going to prison. If the President were a Governor, he'd likely already be in jail for just this one thing.

Want to expand on this.

woodchip · Post by **woodchip** » Fri May 03, 2019 3:33 pm

vision wrote: ↑Fri May 03, 2019 1:18 pm
woodchip wrote: ↑Fri May 03, 2019 5:09 amWhat exactly was Trumps crime.
You seem to have not only a misunderstanding of what impeachment is, but also a serious case of delusion.

In the United States, for example, impeachment at the federal level is limited to those who may have committed "Treason, Bribery, or other high crimes and misdemeanors[1]".[2]

Treason? Are you saying trump committed treason? If so how.
Bribery? Who was bribed?
high crimes and misdemeanors:
Perjury? Where did Trump perjure himself?
Abuse of Power? This is a rather nebulous item. I think if you find Trump guilty of Abuse, then you will have to look at a almost all national level politicians...as such I don't think even Pelosi is dumb enough to use this item.
Deriliction of duty? No evidence here.
There are a few more items that I don't think will be touched.
So vision, I don't think it is me that is delusional.

woodchip · Post by **woodchip** » Fri May 03, 2019 3:43 pm

Tunnelcat wrote: ↑Fri May 03, 2019 12:19 pm Here's Mueller's March 27th letter to AG Barr expressing his displeasure at Barr's public presentation of the investigation results. Barr pretty much sugarcoated Mueller's findings to the public when he didn't need to (unless he was protecting Trump of course) because Mueller had already created several succinct summaries that were fit for public consumption. But Barr ignored all that nicely already prepared work and instead gave the public his own biased interpretation by claiming Trump was not guilty of anything.

Barr was correct. Nothing in Muellers report indicated any crime was committed. Unless of course you can pull something out of the report that backs you up.

Tunnelcat wrote: ↑Fri May 03, 2019 12:19 pmThe only reason Mueller didn't indict Trump for obstruction of justice is because he thought that was a job for Congress. In other words, Mueller didn't think he had the power to indict a sitting president and from Mueller's report, it looks like he had enough evidence to indict Trump for obstruction of justice. Even Judge Napolitano thought so in that video that Fox decided had to be taken down.

No disrespect to Napolitano but he is talking out his nether region. All the legal scholars I read say the only power Mueller has is to present his findings to the AG. It is the AG's job, not congress and certainly not a special prosecutor, to determine if there is grounds to take a person to court on charges. I suggest to read a little bit of the jurisprudence process before you start using a source that backs up your hate for Trump.

Vander · Post by **Vander** » Fri May 03, 2019 3:54 pm

woodchip wrote:Nope. Mueller spent 3 years and as far as I read, none of those are in his 400 page report. You have something specific? Source?

Volume II of the report lists numerous instances that met all the requirements for obstruction charges, as well as instances that met some but not all of the requirements. Trump wasn't indicted, not because obstruction didn't happen, but because DOJ guidelines say a sitting President can't be indicted.

On emoluments, Trump's business is currently profiting from foreign customers. (not to mention self enrichment by forcing taxpayer money to be spent at his business)

For other stuff, here's some reading for you: https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archi ... le/588496/

Want to expand on this.

Michael Cohen pleaded guilty on felony campaign finance violations for hush money payments. Remember that? Court docs say he conspired with two other people, Individual-1, and the CFO of the Trump Org. The CFO has been granted immunity as a cooperating witness. Individual-1, who court docs say directed the conspiracy, can't be indicted per the same DOJ guidelines from above.

Krom · Post by **Krom** » Fri May 03, 2019 4:00 pm

Lets put it this way, if it was a black person (or other racial minority) or a democrat or an immigrant and they committed "Obstruction of justice", you'd be right out with the torches, pitchforks and rope ready to hang them on the spot.

vision · Post by **vision** » Fri May 03, 2019 5:01 pm

woodchip wrote: ↑Fri May 03, 2019 3:33 pm vision, I don't think it is me that is delusional.

You are being disingenuous. As I said before, at best, this president is Lawful Evil. There is a great deal of time spent by people like yourself who either through ignorance or mal-intent don't see the forest, only the trees. You'll point to specific things that may not be technically illegal, or legally grey, or questionably ethical, and rationalize why this is a "little thing" and not a big deal. But there are literally hundreds and perhaps thousands of these "little things". Yet, you refuse to see the big picture.

When Hillary Clinton was a candidate, you were frothing at the mouth about uranium sales to Russia even though the uranium was medical grade, would never leave the country, was sold to a country partly owned by Kazakhstan, and the sale was authorized by a dozen governing bodies (Deep State, right?) Yet, today we know for a fact that Russia is still operating a huge misinformation campaign against the US but president Trump (and the GOP) has never acknowledged it, let alone taken steps to prevent it. How do you reconcile this disconnect with reality? How would you feel if Hillary was president and was under investigation, was cozy with adversaries and hostile toward allies, and deliberately sowed division and discord among the population? You'd lose your ★■◆●. And this is the problem with you and why you are clearly suffering from delusion. You have no capability for empathy and by extension, no moral compass to navigate our world. You are filled with "hate for the other" and that clouds whatever reasoning ability you might have. You're a hopeless cause and no better than that lunatic Thunder Bunny who THANK ★■◆●ing GOD THAT LOSER IS GONE JESUS CHRIST.

Top Gun · Post by **Top Gun** » Sat May 04, 2019 6:24 pm

I'm glad we have such a fine example of a low-information voter posting here.

Tunnelcat · Post by **Tunnelcat** » Sun May 05, 2019 5:35 pm

woodchip wrote: ↑Fri May 03, 2019 3:43 pm
Tunnelcat wrote: ↑Fri May 03, 2019 12:19 pmThe only reason Mueller didn't indict Trump for obstruction of justice is because he thought that was a job for Congress. In other words, Mueller didn't think he had the power to indict a sitting president and from Mueller's report, it looks like he had enough evidence to indict Trump for obstruction of justice. Even Judge Napolitano thought so in that video that Fox decided had to be taken down.
No disrespect to Napolitano but he is talking out his nether region. All the legal scholars I read say the only power Mueller has is to present his findings to the AG. It is the AG's job, not congress and certainly not a special prosecutor, to determine if there is grounds to take a person to court on charges. I suggest to read a little bit of the jurisprudence process before you start using a source that backs up your hate for Trump.

This is why Mueller didn't charge Trump with obstruction of justice, a 1973 OLC ruling that states a sitting president cannot be indicted for a crime. However, it also recognizes that an investigation into criminal behavior by a president is clearly permissible and if criminal behavior is found by Congress, that president can be impeached as a remedy. The AG does not have any responsibilities concerning the matter. Congress is the MAIN check on presidential power. Now what would you be doing right now if this very same set of circumstances involved a President Hillary Clinton? Like Krom said, you'd be running around with your Republican cohorts carrying torches and pitchforks demanding justice or else.

"...recognizes that a criminal investigation during the President's term is permissible."

https://www.businessinsider.com/why-mue ... ice-2019-4

And you're wrong that Mueller left things to Barr to decide. Mueller clearly left the decision to Congress since he believed he had no jurisdiction to indict a sitting president. But hey, I wouldn't worry. Pelosi and the DEMS are currently sitting on their hands waffling about what to do with the current redacted report that Mueller laid out anyway. I do agree that more investigation and more information needs to see the light of day to make this stick to the Teflon Don.

https://www.vox.com/2019/4/18/18485088/ ... of-justice

From the above link and from Mueller's Report.

Mueller wrote:“Under [the Office of Legal Counsel’s] analysis, Congress can permissibly criminalize certain obstructive conduct by the President, such as suborning perjury, intimidating witnesses, or fabricating evidence, because those prohibitions raise no separation-of-powers questions.”

“The separation-of-powers doctrine authorizes Congress to protect official proceedings, including those courts and grand juries, from corrupt, obstructive acts regardless of their source. We also concluded that any inroad on presidential authority that would occur from prohibiting corrupt acts does not undermine the President’s ability to fulfill his constitutional mission.”

“Finally, we concluded that in the rare case in which a criminal investigation of the President’s conduct is justified, inquiries to determine whether the President acted for a corrupt motive should not impermissibly chill his performance of his constitutionally assigned duties. The conclusion that Congress may apply obstruction laws to the President’s corrupt exercise of the powers of office accords with our constitutional system of checks and balances and the principle that no person is above the law.”

Here's what a couple of former prosecutors think about Trump's bumbling attempt at obstruction of justice. What all these prosecutors agree on is that they need to see the full report before making a hard decision, so Congress needs to see the full unredacted Report.

http://time.com/5559169/donald-trump-ob ... barr-memo/

Meanwhile, on a side note, Trump calls his lover Putin on the phone to shoot the breeze, talk about the Mueller Report and get his massive turd ego polished and the American people only find out about it through the Russian news agency TASS, not our own damn press.

Tunnelcat · Post by **Tunnelcat** » Tue May 07, 2019 5:41 pm

I'm posting the LA Times story about this because it has the direct link in the third paragraph to a letter that over 450 former prosecutors, both Democratic and Republican, penned and posted on Medium.com saying that Trump is definitely guilty of obstruction of justice. Read the handwriting on the wall Pelosi and crew and do your congressional duty to uphold the law of the land and bring this crooked president to account for his lawless actions. I mean, the House is apparently going to charge AG Barr with contempt of congress anyway, so you might as well go the final mile you bunch of snowflakes and DO YOUR JOBS. You're stuck between a rock and a hard place anyway, because Trump will contest ANY 2020 election results no matter how decisive in the winner's favor...because he can.

https://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-pr ... story.html

Krom · Post by **Krom** » Tue May 07, 2019 7:34 pm

I think the thing that it would actually take to convince Pelosi and just about everyone else is if the #2 ★■◆● in the universe Mitch McConnel and the other republican snowflakes would grow a spine and stand up for the constitution for a change.

But we all know the republicans don't have a spine, a soul or anything else of value beyond just holding on to their power by any means necessary. So Pelosi and the House remain powerless. The 2018 midterms basically spelled it out to republicans, but ignoring the results of or outright rigging elections in their favor seems to be their thing so I'm not holding my breath.

Top Gun · Post by **Top Gun** » Tue May 07, 2019 8:23 pm

McConnell is a ★■◆● turtle.

Vander · Post by **Vander** » Tue May 07, 2019 8:33 pm

Krom wrote:So Pelosi and the House remain powerless.

Say what you want about McConnell, but he uses power. Openly and brazenly. So much so, apparently his permission has to be asked for the Dems to USE THEIR POWER.

I don't even understand what the political benefits of failing to start impeachment proceedings are supposed to be.

Tunnelcat · Post by **Tunnelcat** » Tue May 07, 2019 11:05 pm

Krom wrote: ↑Tue May 07, 2019 7:34 pm I think the thing that it would actually take to convince Pelosi and just about everyone else is if the #2 ★■◆● in the universe Mitch McConnel and the other republican snowflakes would grow a spine and stand up for the constitution for a change.

But we all know the republicans don't have a spine, a soul or anything else of value beyond just holding on to their power by any means necessary. So Pelosi and the House remain powerless. The 2018 midterms basically spelled it out to republicans, but ignoring the results of or outright rigging elections in their favor seems to be their thing so I'm not holding my breath.

What a dreary prediction for the fate of the Constitution, and this little commentary was penned back in 2017.

https://www.thenation.com/article/is-th ... stitution/

Say, didn't the Republican Party, in the past, always commit to honor their pledge to protect and defend the Constitution of the United States? Why yes. So what the hell happened?

https://www.pogo.org/letter/2019/02/for ... stitution/

Vander · Post by **Vander** » Wed May 08, 2019 8:55 am

Tunnelcat wrote:Say, didn't the Republican Party, in the past, always commit to honor their pledge to protect and defend the Constitution of the United States?

It's a EULA. If you don't click Accept, they won't let you play the game, and who has time to read all that fine print.

Tunnelcat · Post by **Tunnelcat** » Wed May 08, 2019 3:44 pm

I thought that they dumped all that fine print in favor of a far simpler statement. "Our new way of governing Makes American Great Again and everyone who disagrees with that is an anti-American liberal socialist commie".

woodchip · Post by **woodchip** » Thu May 09, 2019 7:24 am

vision wrote: ↑Fri May 03, 2019 5:01 pm
woodchip wrote: ↑Fri May 03, 2019 3:33 pm vision, I don't think it is me that is delusional.
You are being disingenuous. As I said before, at best, this president is Lawful Evil. There is a great deal of time spent by people like yourself who either through ignorance or mal-intent don't see the forest, only the trees. You'll point to specific things that may not be technically illegal, or legally grey, or questionably ethical, and rationalize why this is a "little thing" and not a big deal. But there are literally hundreds and perhaps thousands of these "little things". Yet, you refuse to see the big picture.

And you fail to specifically mention just what Trumps is doing that is so evil. Tell me vision was Trump evil when:
On the day he was elected the stock market jumped 6,000 points?
When the news came out that blacks and latinos are enjoying the lowest unemployment rates in 50 years? And please don't present Obama as setting this all up. Perhaps you would prefer the new normal he was touting and how being unemployed was a good thing.
Is it evil that he dropped the corp. tax rate from 35% to 21%? I know my small business saved paying more in taxes.
Did you notice the standard individual tax deduction went from 6,000 to 12,000. I should think those people who don't have a lot of assets will find this very helpful.
Is it evil to keep individuals from terrorist countries from entering the US. Or perhaps you believe Trump was trying to keep Muslims from entering the country?
So where is the evil?

vision wrote: ↑Fri May 03, 2019 5:01 pmWhen Hillary Clinton was a candidate, you were frothing at the mouth about uranium sales to Russia even though the uranium was medical grade, would never leave the country, was sold to a country partly owned by Kazakhstan, and the sale was authorized by a dozen governing bodies (Deep State, right?) Yet, today we know for a fact that Russia is still operating a huge misinformation campaign against the US but president Trump (and the GOP) has never acknowledged it, let alone taken steps to prevent it. How do you reconcile this disconnect with reality? How would you feel if Hillary was president and was under investigation, was cozy with adversaries and hostile toward allies, and deliberately sowed division and discord among the population? You'd lose your ★■◆●. And this is the problem with you and why you are clearly suffering from delusion. You have no capability for empathy and by extension, no moral compass to navigate our world. You are filled with "hate for the other" and that clouds whatever reasoning ability you might have. You're a hopeless cause and no better than that lunatic Thunder Bunny who THANK ★■◆●ing GOD THAT LOSER IS GONE JESUS CHRIST.

First about misinformation. Never heard you bemoan the fact Obama was doing the same thing in Israeli politics. Never heard you say boo about the opposition
research file (steele dossier) used by the Dems to get the collusion special prosecutor started (who found nothing). I suppose you approve of congress finding Barr in contempt for not handing over the unredacted copy of the Mueller report
Second, you mean discord like saying that NATO countries should pay their fair share to fund the military. Or how the Dems are paying Antifa thugs to riot after Trump was elected. Or promoting toxic white male syndrome. Those kind of divisive acts?
Perhaps you notice that I haven't used derogatory comments toward you. Perhaps you are in reality no better than TG and should be put on ignore. You speak of empathy yet when someone is not in agreement with you politically you have to resort to name calling. Sad really.

vision · Post by **vision** » Thu May 09, 2019 1:02 pm

You are so deep in misinformation it's hard to know where to start, so I'll start by asking you to be honest: Does it bother you that several of people directly tied to Trump's campaign have admitted wrongdoing and are now serving time in federal prison? I don't care where the Steele dossier came from, there was an investigation and these people committed crimes. Do you honestly think President Trump is an innocent man? Or, as you seem to be implying in your post, it's Ok to be evil if us low-class people can enjoy a little relief from being raped by our corporate controlled government.

And it seems I have to keep mentioning this because you can't get it into your head: I have NEVER voted for a Democratic president and I was a registered Republican my entire life up until a couple years ago. There are plenty of things I didn't like about Obama, but he wasn't a criminal. Trump belongs in jail for the rest of his life.

woodchip · Post by **woodchip** » Thu May 09, 2019 2:33 pm

Let me ask you vision, did those who were convicted of "wrong doing" were their crimes n any way connect to collusion or were they process crimes or unrelated crimes? Yes there was a investigation but no crimes of collusion with the Russians were found. I suggest you follow Barrs investigation and see what shakes out. You just might get a entirely different view of what you govt. was trying to do (and I don't mean Trumps admin)
And no I don't think Trump is a boy scout...but then I don't think any president is or was.
You still haven't said just what crime Trump should be jailed for.

Krom · Post by **Krom** » Thu May 09, 2019 3:06 pm

woodchip wrote: ↑Thu May 09, 2019 2:33 pm You still haven't said just what crime Trump should be jailed for.

Felony Obstruction of Justice.

You wanted to lock up and continue to call Hillary Clinton a criminal for a whole lot less.

Vander · Post by **Vander** » Thu May 09, 2019 3:19 pm

woodchip wrote:You still haven't said just what crime Trump should be jailed for.

I did. Same thing Cohen is currently in jail for. There's plenty of evidence of tax and bank fraud as well. Obstruction is probably a gimme, though not while he's a sitting President. There's probably more that's jailable, but I doubt you give a sh!t.