Pelosi, Impeach Trump

[vision]

Right, these two gentlemen above be have it right. Also, we're probably looking at tax fraud and money laundering as well, and we'll start seeing the results of those investigations in the upcoming months. Woody, how many federal investigations are you under? The presidency is the only thing keeping Trump out of jail, and the sooner it ends, the better.

Also, you never answered any of the questions asked of you. You don't care Trump is surrounded by criminals because all president's are criminals? Is that the best America can do? You don't care he's a liar because they are all liars? Is that the best America can do? How do you benefit from their lies and corruption? How does it help the country?

[Tunnelcat]

You still haven't said just what crime Trump should be jailed for.

Obstruction of justice, which is still ongoing by the way as I write. He's even invoked executive privilege to block the House from seeing the full unredacted Mueller Report. If Trump is so "innocent" of any crimes, why is he blocking every attempt to find out the truth? Why is he blocking every subpoena he can? What is in his financial records that are so damming? The bastard won't even show us his tax returns and is currently having the Treasury Department illegally block their release.

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics ... ce-summary

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/29/us/p ... -bank.html

https://apnews.com/30bd81095af449229a075ec9d3130ee8

Vander, you forgot Manafort. He's currently sitting in jail on a litany of charges, like money-laundering, tax evasion, conspiracy, and failure to register as a foreign agent. That doesn't even include lying to the FBI about his contacts with the Russians. And Trump Jr. just got a subpoena from the Republican Senate Intelligence Committee to testify, again. What are they after?

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/08/us/p ... poena.html

[Vander]

Vander, you forgot Manafort.

Manafort isn't in jail for anything in which Trump was described as a conspirator, unlike Cohen. It does appear that Trump's conduct in regards to Manafort meets the requirements for an obstruction charge. Court docs also show Manafort's motivation for misleading the Special Council was likely procuring a pardon that was dangled. And the thing he was misleading about was the sharing of internal campaign polling data with a former GRU officer. The type of data that would be useful for targeting in, say, an influence operation. Mueller couldn't prove a connection beyond a reasonable doubt, and couldn't disprove it. Manafort lied about it.

It's probably a coin flip whether or not Trump will pardon Manafort. My guess is he'll get stiffed like so many others expecting Trump to pay debts.

[Top Gun]

Pathetic deluded little sycophants like woody are literally killing this country. ★■◆● anyone and everyone, so long as rich old white people get theirs!

[woodchip]

You still haven't said just what crime Trump should be jailed for.

Felony Obstruction of Justice.

You wanted to lock up and continue to call Hillary Clinton a criminal for a whole lot less.

You'll have to do better than a nebulous statement:

Mueller, however, refrained from recommending prosecution, saying that there were “difficult [legal] issues that would need to be resolved,” in order to reach a conclusion that the crime of obstruction of justice was committed by Trump.

And I'll listen to people that understand the law before political hack viewpoints:

In a press conference just prior to the public release of the redacted Mueller report on April 18, Attorney General William P. Barr said that he and Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein “disagreed with some of [Mueller’s] legal theories and felt that some of the episodes examined did not amount to obstruction as a matter of law.” But he said that based on the evidence and legal framework presented by Mueller, they concluded the investigation did not establish that Trump had committed the criminal offense of obstruction of justice.

And note Rosenstein is in agreement with Barr.

[woodchip]

Right, these two gentlemen above be have it right. Also, we're probably looking at tax fraud and money laundering as well, and we'll start seeing the results of those investigations in the upcoming months. Woody, how many federal investigations are you under? The presidency is the only thing keeping Trump out of jail, and the sooner it ends, the better.

Also, you never answered any of the questions asked of you. You don't care Trump is surrounded by criminals because all president's are criminals? Is that the best America can do? You don't care he's a liar because they are all liars? Is that the best America can do? How do you benefit from their lies and corruption? How does it help the country?

Try looking up the term "process crime" and I suspect if you were interviewed by the FBI, you too would be charged. Does that make you a criminal? And your term "probably" has no merit in a court of law.

[woodchip]

You still haven't said just what crime Trump should be jailed for.

Obstruction of justice, which is still ongoing by the way as I write. He's even invoked executive privilege to block the House from seeing the full unredacted Mueller Report. If Trump is so "innocent" of any crimes, why is he blocking every attempt to find out the truth? Why is he blocking every subpoena he can? What is in his financial records that are so damming? The bastard won't even show us his tax returns and is currently having the Treasury Department illegally block their release.

Again TC, I suggest you read up on the law, especially the law enacted by a dem. congress I believe back when Clinton was being investigated. Trump and Barr are following the law as Grand jury testimony cannot be made public. Do try and keep up before making yourself look bad.

Vander, you forgot Manafort. He's currently sitting in jail on a litany of charges, like money-laundering, tax evasion, conspiracy, and failure to register as a foreign agent. That doesn't even include lying to the FBI about his contacts with the Russians. And Trump Jr. just got a subpoena from the Republican Senate Intelligence Committee to testify, again. What are they after?

Indeed, what are they after. Don't think they are trying to goad Trump do you? Or deflect attention away from Barr's investigation of spying on the Trump campaign?

[woodchip]

Vander, you forgot Manafort.

Manafort isn't in jail for anything in which Trump was described as a conspirator, unlike Cohen. It does appear that Trump's conduct in regards to Manafort meets the requirements for an obstruction charge. Court docs also show Manafort's motivation for misleading the Special Council was likely procuring a pardon that was dangled. And the thing he was misleading about was the sharing of internal campaign polling data with a former GRU officer. The type of data that would be useful for targeting in, say, an influence operation. Mueller couldn't prove a connection beyond a reasonable doubt, and couldn't disprove it. Manafort lied about it.

The words "appear" and "likely" will get you zip, zero, nada in a court of law. Like TC, I would suggest you use less supposition and more facts to prove your case.
As to Manafort, he may be guilty of a process crime:

In the most recent filing, Manafort’s legal team argue that he was not acting in bad faith when he misrepresented facts to the government, but had simply forgotten the details of his meetings due to the mental anguish of his imprisonment. According to the document, Manafort has been suffering from depression, anxiety, and “severe gout.”

So you approve of hanging the mentally ill?

[Vander]

The words "appear" and "likely" will get you zip, zero, nada in a court of law. Like TC, I would suggest you use less supposition and more facts to prove your case.

I use those words because I strive to make accurate statements and intellectually honest assessments. I use them, like you stated, because they haven't been proven in a court of law. But you consistently fail to acknowledge the reason why these charges aren't made against Trump in a court of law, because some guy once created a policy that Presidents can't be charged in a court of law.

You keep failing to address the fact that the President directed the criminal conspiracy for which Michael Cohen is doing time. That if he weren't President, he would've been charged and "likely" found guilty.

You've reduced right and wrong down to what is strictly legal, which is a very dangerous place if we're going to operate on the assumption that the legal system doesn't apply to the President.

So you approve of hanging the mentally ill?

lol

[Top Gun]

And I'll listen to people that understand the law before political hack viewpoints:

In a press conference just prior to the public release of the redacted Mueller report on April 18, Attorney General William P. Barr said that he and Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein “disagreed with some of [Mueller’s] legal theories and felt that some of the episodes examined did not amount to obstruction as a matter of law.” But he said that based on the evidence and legal framework presented by Mueller, they concluded the investigation did not establish that Trump had committed the criminal offense of obstruction of justice.

And note Rosenstein is in agreement with Barr.

*undermines own point in spectacular fashion*

[Tunnelcat]

Again TC, I suggest you read up on the law, especially the law enacted by a dem. congress I believe back when Clinton was being investigated. Trump and Barr are following the law as Grand jury testimony cannot be made public. Do try and keep up before making yourself look bad.

OK, why won't Trump release the unredacted report to the House intelligence committee? They have the LEGAL right to see it privately. They can't make a judgement whether or not Trump should be impeached based solely on a report filtered by an AG whose apparently looking out for the best interests of Trump, not the American people.

https://www.sltrib.com/opinion/commenta ... -congress/

Vander, you forgot Manafort. He's currently sitting in jail on a litany of charges, like money-laundering, tax evasion, conspiracy, and failure to register as a foreign agent. That doesn't even include lying to the FBI about his contacts with the Russians. And Trump Jr. just got a subpoena from the Republican Senate Intelligence Committee to testify, again. What are they after?

Indeed, what are they after. Don't think they are trying to goad Trump do you? Or deflect attention away from Barr's investigation of spying on the Trump campaign?

You don't get it do you? The FBI originally started their investigation because a drunk George Papadopoulos, who was named a foreign policy advisor to the Trump campaign in 2016, blabbed to the Aussie diplomat that Russia had dirt on Hillary Clinton. It was NOT the DOSSIER. Russia is a hostile foreign country last I heard and the FBI would have been derelict in their duty if they HADN'T investigated what was going on PERIOD.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/30/us/p ... oulos.html

About 2 minutes into this video, even Chris Wallace has to correct Rush Limbaugh on what started the Trump Russia investigation.



Why don't you take the time to read the timeline. Trump and the Russians were pretty much thick as thieves during his campaign. Trump wanted his Trump Tower Moscow and he was going to court the Russians for his own benefit, especially since they OFFERED it to him. The Russians even wanted Trump to WIN the election. That much is in the Mueller Report. Answer me what the Hell WHY? The only reason Trump was not charged with collusion is because either he lied or he ordered his cronies to lie during the investigation, hence the oblique hedge by Mueller for obstruction of justice, WHICH HE LEFT UP TO CONGRESS TO DECIDE since he had no authority to enforce. Hence their need to view the unredacted and not glossed over by a friendly AG report. What the timeline below does leave out is that Trump was pursuing his dreams of a Trump Tower Moscow as early as 2013, so he was already schmoozing with the Russians long before 2016.

https://www.factcheck.org/2017/06/timel ... stigation/

If Hillary had made ANY of these connections during the 2016 campaign, you'd be screaming lock her up until you turned blue in the face. Unfortunately, the hypocrite Dems would probably be stacked up to defend her just like the Republicans are doing now with Trump. Just look at the Dems actions during Eric Holder's contempt of Congress vote over the Fast and Furious debacle. No one ever wears a white hat in politics.

https://www.politico.com/story/2012/06/ ... ess-077988

[vision]

Woodchip, you are still dodging direct questions about your views. We already know what conservative, brainwashing media is pushing. I want to know, "do you think it's Ok that Donald Trump surrounded himself with criminals who have admitted guilt and are going to prison, and that Donald Trump is currently under no less than a dozen investigations?" As Vander said:

You've reduced right and wrong down to what is strictly legal, which is a very dangerous place if we're going to operate on the assumption that the legal system doesn't apply to the President.

The law is a fluid thing. It's does it's best to codify what it right and wrong, but it's isn't perfect and it changes every day. Also, if you continue to believe that as long as something is legal it OK, then you have basically described what Lawful Evil is. You would be losing your ★■◆● right now if a Democratic president was under investigation and had subordinates go to federal prison. And one final question: why are you such a hypocrite?

All of Trump and the GOP's behavior is setting a dangerous precedent. What happens when the Democratic Party controls the Executive an Legislative branches? Holy ★■◆●, you might be forced to have free health care!

[Top Gun]

Can we bring up the fact that the Justice Department policy that a sitting president cannot be indicted with a crime is supreme ★■◆●ing bull★■◆●? I mean what if Cheetolini were to actually test that statement he made to his drooling hordes and walk up to someone in Times Square to shoot him. Would we need to wait for him to be impeached to charge him with murder? Of course even then he wouldn't be, because that ★■◆● treasonous turtle would cover for him.

[Tunnelcat]

More reasons to impeach the bastard, abuse of powers. It appears that the Trump Team just can't quit seeking help from Russia and Ukraine. You know, if these idiots wanted to investigate Biden's son, we have our own intelligence agencies that are under their purview suited just for that purpose. But I guess perhaps that the CIA and the FBI don't particularly like Trump right about now and he knows it. Be that as it may, a president or his lawyer (Mr. Noun, a verb and 911) shouldn't be going directly to a foreign power seeking political dirt in the first place. I'm guessing that it's definitely questionable, if not quasi-illegal, to use our intelligence agencies solely for the purpose of collecting dirt on a political opponent. But hey, doesn't Trump think he's a shoe-in for the next election? So why bother with the underhanded and perhaps legally questionable stuff?

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/09/us/p ... trump.html

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/11/us/p ... raine.html

But this does set a dangerous precedent. Going after one's political enemies and abusing the power of office to do so is what got Nixon nailed to the wall. If Repubs think that this old tactic should be codified into proper presidential activities, just wait until some Dem president decides to abuse this newly created power to go after their political enemies in the future.

[Ferno]

So.. I saw somewhere that someone wanted a real lawyer to go over the Muller Report?

I got ya.

[Tunnelcat]

Can't want for this telling info to be made public. There's also an audio recording of a Flynn conversation the might be the clincher for obstruction of justice by Trump.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics ... 02b824a358

[Krom]

One thing I hear a lot from Republicans lately is that "this is wasteful of taxpayer money and needs to stop for the good of the nation" or something like that.

Yes; the same Republicans that have spent over $100 million of taxpayer dollars on investigations around Hillary Clinton since the 90s and have yet to find any evidence of wrongdoing. And I can't believe I have to bring this up, but there were no less than 10 investigations into Benghazi, and I recall 3 of them were investigations into the other investigations! If there is one thing I wish Nancy Pelosi and the other democrats would bring up as a response at the next assembly it would be "The endless investigations into Clinton and Benghazi have finally come back to bite Republicans in the ass.".

If they want the investigations to end, maybe they should work to expedite them instead of always trying to slow or outright obstruct them. And, you know, it would also help to stop electing the swampiest slime balls in the known universe to public office.

[Tunnelcat]

Not only that, now we're paying for an investigation into the Russian investigation by Trump's personal lapdog, AG Barr. That's the sort of crap that dictators do to their political enemies in third world countries. The precedent that this president is setting will eventually be devastating for our democracy, because once we go down this muddy road, there's no going back. Let's also not forget that by ordering our intelligence agencies to declassify all classified information surrounding the Russia investigation, through Barr, is in itself a slam against our national security and the people who work in the interests of THIS country. I'll bet Putin is just drooling to find out the names of people working on the behalf of the U.S. that are currently residing in Russia and I'd be willing to bet my bottom dollar that Trump would even call Putin to tell him those names once he found them out.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/24/us/p ... gence.html

Worse than that, he's calling everyone who he thinks spied on him traitors, James Comey for instance, and that treason is a crime punishable by death, which of course he later corrected to "life in prison" after his little sycophant teachers and the press told him so. Never mind that Trump was a private citizen at the time he's was being "investigated" and that investigation was started because his cronies were actively seeking political dirt from a hostile foreign state, aka a couple of Russian operatives, on an American citizen during an election campaign.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics ... tal-crime/

Then there's the "I'm rubber you're glue" juvenile schoolyard behavior from Trump when he doesn't get his way after the Dems refuse to stop their investigations. "Whaaaa, (stomp, stomp). I'm going to TELL!" He is so insecure that he has to get all his little White House sycophants to surround him and butter up his ego by telling everyone on camera that he's a stable genius, Pelosi is a liar and that he never throws tantrums, AFTER he stormed out of a meeting with the Dems on infrastructure. There isn't a solid spine behind him in the room. Trump keeps taking the bait and looking like a schoolyard bully who's having a snit fit. And Republicans keep wondering why the Dems don't like this guy or want to work with him. No one likes to work with a bully who's clearly a revenge-seeking an unstable narcissistic egomaniac. If this behavior isn't a continuation of his ongoing obstruction of justice, I don't know what is. This bastard is hiding something nasty, and thank Gawd, he's slowly losing ground in the courts.

[Tunnelcat]

One Republican who actually READ the Mueller Report.

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/da ... rr-mueller

[Tunnelcat]

Sorry I keep spamming my own post, but Trump keeps right on lying to his delusional base and Pelosi keeps on sitting on her hands in fear. Mueller did NOT, I repeat NOT, exonerate him of the crimes of obstruction of justice. So does that snowflake Pelosi need a damned invitation to start impeachment proceedings against the bastard or what? She doesn't NEED any more information. She has it sitting right in front of her in the form of the Mueller Report plus everything Trump has done to impede things SINCE the report came out by using executive privilege demanding his old cronies not testify before Congress, even those who are currently private citizens. DO your damned job Pelosi! Jeez I wish the Dems hadn't selected her as House leader..... AGAIN. She a gutless and feckless word I shall not utter.

“If our office had had confidence that the president clearly did not commit a crime, we would have said so...”

[Ferno]

At this point, I'm just waiting on the second American revolution. It's clear to me that most Americans, especially the 30% that have a total hard-on for Trump, want a King.

It was nice while it lasted.

[Burlyman]

Maybe you should write a letter instead of posting it here.

[Tunnelcat]

Hmm, the House Judiciary Committee is using a back door option to start impeachment proceedings against Trump. Go for it I say. The time has come because the Courts are starting to reject the legal moves by Trump's lawyers, who've have come up with all sorts of inane reasons to block every House subpoena they've ever put out, including the notion the president has absolute power and immunity. Well, pretty quick we'll all start getting a nice good look at the crap this businessman crook and traitor we now have for a president uses to run his business and our country. But if for some reason the Dems falter and nothing ever happens to bring this bastard tyrant down, because right now their batting average against Trump absolutely sucks, we need to realize that what we now have sitting in the office of the president is what our Founding Fathers feared, a King. We've got a president who thinks he's the perfect King because he's currently and successfully wielding his power to block every effort to be held accountable with glee and is the type of grandiose self-centered narcissist who would never think to step down for the good of the nation on his own. No president or his staff should be above the law or unanswerable to Congress or we as a nation have defaulted on our responsibility of maintaining our Democracy while letting a Monarchy take hold.

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/h ... -testimony

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/07/us/p ... poena.html

Then there's these two FBI people who were pretty much fired at King Trump's behest. They are now suing the DOJ.

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics ... trump-barr

If all you conservatives think that they deserved it for badmouthing Trump, remember that there were other FBI agents that badmouthed and leaked all sorts of info on Hillary Clinton during the 2016 campaign who were never fired or disciplined for their illegal actions.

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/ar ... on/558200/

[woodchip]

Careful TC because it is now coming to light the real traitors may be in the FBI:

Supporters of President Donald Trump are seizing on newly released FBI reports to argue that the law enforcement agency had clear warnings within weeks after the election that a former British intelligence officer who authored a disputed dossier about Trump’s alleged ties to Russia was intent on preventing the real estate mogul from becoming president.
The FBI on Thursday released its notes — known as 302 reports — detailing a dozen interviews agents had with senior Justice Department official Bruce Ohr as they investigated potential ties between the incoming president and Russia. Ohr’s wife, Nellie, worked for the private investigation firm Fusion GPS and relayed research the former British spy, Christopher Steele, was conducting for the company.

“These new Bruce Ohr FBI 302s show an unprecedented and irregular effort by the FBI, DOJ, and State Department to dig up dirt on President Trump using the conflicted Bruce Ohr, his wife, and the Clinton/DNC spies at Fusion GPS,” said Tom Fitton of Judicial Watch, the conservative group that obtained the records through a Freedom of Information Act lawsuit. “The FISA courts weren’t informed of this corrupted process when they were asked to approve and reapprove extraordinary spy warrants targeting President Trump.”

https://www.politico.com/story/2019/08/ ... ts-1454402

It will get worse when we get the GAO report and AG Burrs investigation is completed. Look for high ranking govt. officials going to jail. So lets see if you get just as upset when you find out the Dems are far worse than any imagined Russian collusion

[Top Gun]

It's 2019 and woody is still pulling the "but Hillary!" card. Low-information voter, thy name is woodchip.

[vision]

Lock her up. No one gives a ★■◆● about Hillary. If Trump is innocent he has nothing to worry about. Take me for instance. I would welcome the FBI to investigate me because I know I AIN'T DONE ★■◆● TO NO ONE.

[Tunnelcat]

Careful TC because it is now coming to light the real traitors may be in the FBI:

Supporters of President Donald Trump are seizing on newly released FBI reports to argue that the law enforcement agency had clear warnings within weeks after the election that a former British intelligence officer who authored a disputed dossier about Trump’s alleged ties to Russia was intent on preventing the real estate mogul from becoming president.
The FBI on Thursday released its notes — known as 302 reports — detailing a dozen interviews agents had with senior Justice Department official Bruce Ohr as they investigated potential ties between the incoming president and Russia. Ohr’s wife, Nellie, worked for the private investigation firm Fusion GPS and relayed research the former British spy, Christopher Steele, was conducting for the company.

“These new Bruce Ohr FBI 302s show an unprecedented and irregular effort by the FBI, DOJ, and State Department to dig up dirt on President Trump using the conflicted Bruce Ohr, his wife, and the Clinton/DNC spies at Fusion GPS,” said Tom Fitton of Judicial Watch, the conservative group that obtained the records through a Freedom of Information Act lawsuit. “The FISA courts weren’t informed of this corrupted process when they were asked to approve and reapprove extraordinary spy warrants targeting President Trump.”

https://www.politico.com/story/2019/08/ ... ts-1454402

It will get worse when we get the GAO report and AG Burrs investigation is completed. Look for high ranking govt. officials going to jail. So lets see if you get just as upset when you find out the Dems are far worse than any imagined Russian collusion

You keep focusing on the Steele Dossier when that wasn't the first thing to put Trump on the FBI's radar. Trump had all sorts of connections going with Russia long before the Dossier came to light. Plus a lot of that Russia "scratch my back and I'll scratch yours" crap was going on DURING his campaign.

https://www.factcheck.org/2017/06/timel ... stigation/

You're also forgetting that it was a conservative website who first hired Fusion GPS, not Clinton. Her campaign was stupid enough to bite.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/27/us/p ... inger.html

There was also a small anti-Clinton click of agents within the FBI who leaked damaging information about her as well. Even Comey himself didn't do Clinton any favors by announcing that he was reopening up the investigation of her emails 11 days before the election.

https://www.vox.com/world/2016/11/5/135 ... il-scandal

But the biggest wart on Trump's face is that HUGE list of indictments against all his campaign associates, cronies and lawyers concerning contacts with Russia, finance violations or just plain lying to investigators. What in the hell were they lying for and why was it important that Trump make sure they lied, enough so that Trump himself would now be convicted of obstruction of justice if he were a private citizen?

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics ... grand-jury

You're not taking into account the Trump is violating the Emoluments Clause of the Constitution by making money off all those dignitaries who stay at his hotels and resorts. I wonder where is loyalties lie and who's palms are being greased at the expense of our national security? And if Trump is so squeaky clean, WHY is he blocking all of Congress's attempts to look at his financial records, bank interactions and income tax statements? What is he hiding that's so damaging? I have a feeling that discovery is going to be a ★■◆● and very revealing.

https://www.rawstory.com/2019/06/democr ... ions-suit/

To top things off, Mitch McConnell, now aka Moscow Mitch, won't even let the Senate take a vote on enhancing our election security and nation's voting integrity. It's even starting to happen here on this board with a surge in Russian bots trying to get on this board to spew more Russian BS like Sigma did years ago.



So now we have 2 Republican Russia butt kissers, McConnell and Trump who are essentially traitors to our nation, all for business reasons, or in other words, GREED. What in the HELL happened to the Republican Party?

https://www.politicususa.com/2019/05/28 ... china.html

[LightWolf]

Lock her up. No one gives a ★■◆● about Hillary. If Trump is innocent he has nothing to worry about. Take me for instance. I would welcome the FBI to investigate me because I know I AIN'T DONE ★■◆● TO NO ONE.

If they wanted to find something, they could.

People will often react fearfully to being investigated because they know this fact - this is why people can demand a lawyer for all questioning proceedings by law enforcement in the first place. Slipping up once can find you guilty of a crime otherwise not committed. People want Trump out. So far these have been the people investigating him. One man involved in the investigation process had even sent anti-Trump messages - while this may not represent the majority mindset of the investigators, there are enough such people to be noticed. It is these people that Trump doesn't want seeing his stuff. If I had a bunch of people who are thinking party over people investigating me, I'd be scared too.

I only have one question (primarily since Google refuses to cooperate, only bringing up his lies or their lies) - Where is the evidence that Trump told his aides and advisers to lie to congress? I wanna have a chance to review it for myself. Them covering for him doesn't automatically mean he asked them to. He could just have a terrible taste in aides.

[vision]

Where is the evidence that Trump told his aides and advisers to lie to congress? I wanna have a chance to review it for myself.

Here you go, knock your self out.

[Tunnelcat]

Finally. And it took Trump AGAIN seeking help from a foreign country, AND trying to extort them in the process, just to maybe get dirt on a political opponent, or even perhaps force them to fabricate something out of desperation. I guess with the Dems nowadays, it takes 2 times doing pretty much the same crime to start impeachment hearings against our Banana Republic of a President who likes abusing the power of his office to get what he wants, no matter the legality or morality of it all. The Dems better not snowflake out on us this time.

https://news.yahoo.com/pelosi-trump-imp ... 58893.html

[vision]

Can't wait to hear woody defend the indefensible. Olympic level mental gymnastics.

[Vander]

Is there really any difference between today and yesterday? No resolution was voted on establishing the inquiry, no Select Committee. It's just kind of business as usual?

It would really be nice to have something in writing that says "yes, we're investigating offenses that are impeachable as laid out in the Constitution" that they can show a judge when they're litigating a contempt charge against some chud that never worked in the White House claiming executive privilege to keep from testifying. If I'm not mistaken, they've already been dinged in court for something like this while trying to get Trump's tax returns.

[Top Gun]

Can't wait to hear woody defend the indefensible. Olympic level mental gymnastics.

Trumpism is the most insidious of mental illnesses.

And no Vander, this doesn't really change much at all, and we all know what the outcome will be as long as that ★■◆● traitorous turtle holds the position he does, but by God at least for a moment there was a small part of me that was immensely satisfied hearing that Franklin quote.

[Tunnelcat]

Hey, give Moscow Mitch some credit. He and his whole sycophant entourage in the Senate just voted in the affirmative to force the release of that whistle-blower's full complaint to Congress. Whether or not he likes the message remains to be seen.

[Tunnelcat]

Thee Transcript.

https://www.whitehouse.gov/wp-content/u ... 9.2019.pdf

[Vander]

Christ, they're talking about focusing impeachment only on the new Ukraine stuff. Leave it to Democrats to cock this all up.

[vision]

Leave it to Democrats to cock this all up.

I lost the little interest I had in the Democratic party when the 110th Congress shrugged at our occupation of Iraq. They might have the moral high-ground, but damned if that party isn't a bunch of corporate sell outs like the Republicans.

[Tunnelcat]

Leave it to Democrats to cock this all up.

I lost the little interest I had in the Democratic party when the 110th Congress shrugged at our occupation of Iraq. They might have the moral high-ground, but damned if that party isn't a bunch of corporate sell outs like the Republicans.

Sorry to say, but I agree. I was not surprised when Nancy Pelosi was again selected as Speaker of the House, so it was also a frustrating "no surprise" when she decided to snowflake out on her Congressional duties and not seek impeachment of Trump based on Mueller's Report of obstruction of justice from the original Russia investigation. Now, Trump has probably gotten away with violating the law yet again and all this drama looks like a partisan circus.

https://www.justsecurity.org/66211/qa-o ... ommittees/

But what I'd like to know is after reading the above link, how is the power of the presidency kept in check if Congress can't, or won't, or are blocked by the president, perform their Constitutional oversight of presidential power? I mean, even that 2011 whistle blower law is vague on who should report to whom when an internal complaint is raised. In this case the head of the DIA reported first to the White House, not Congress, when there was valid and credible complaint concerning the actions of the President of the United States and national security. I'd also like an answer from all our conservative posters here to the same question, but think about it if Hillary Clinton was instead president, not Trump.

[vision]

I'd also like an answer from all our conservative posters here to the same question...

LOL, they don't have that good an imagination, nor the empathy, nor the wit to understand why this is a problem.

[Flatlander]

I'd also like an answer from all our conservative posters here to the same question...

LOL, they don't have that good an imagination, nor the empathy, nor the wit to understand why this is a problem.

Don't you know? It's only a crime if a Democrat does it. For Republicans, it's business as usual.