So It starts

[woodchip]

Andrew McCabe lost his virginity:

U.S. Attorney Jessie Liu has recommended moving forward with charges against Andrew McCabe, Fox News has learned, as the Justice Department rejects a last-ditch appeal from the former top FBI official and current CNN contributor.

So look for the Dominos to start falling as McCabe tries to cut a deal with DOJ to name names especially when the reality of jail time hits him square between the eyes. So while most of you were duped with the collusion farce and wore your hate Trump blinders, the real story lay hidden behind a protectionist press and a ineffective AJ. Get the popcorn out as it may turn out the real president who may face jail time is Obama.

[Vander]

Woodchip, I usually try to be nice, so I have edited this. Do you even know that McCabe’s troubles stem from leaking crap against Clinton?

[Top Gun]

How ★■◆●ing delusional do you have to be to ignore the daily flouting of the basic foundations of our democracy in lieu of tilting at imaginary windmills? You shouldn't be trusted with the power of a vote, woody.

[Tunnelcat]

The DOJ waited so long that the term for the grand jury expired. Why wait so long, hmmmm? Plus several DOJ prosecutors eventually left the case for the same reason, nothing was happening. And Washington DC juries are notoriously liberal and Trump haters, so things might not go the way you think woody.

https://www.dailysignal.com/2019/09/03/ ... ould-mean/

[woodchip]

Woodchip, I usually try to be nice, but you’re a moron. Do you even know that McCabe’s troubles stem from leaking crap against Clinton?

Calling people names when you don't know the entire picture is premature and unbecoming. While indirectly you are correct, there is more going on here. Here is a excerpt to show a further inter-twinning:

Inspector General Michael Horowitz’s review launched in March 2018 focuses on an FBI wiretap of Carter Page, a former policy adviser to Trump's campaign. The inspector general looked into whether the FBI violated the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act, or FISA, when it sought court-ordered surveillance of Page in late 2016. Horowitz examined the FBI's relationship and communication with Christopher Steele, a former British intelligence officer who was hired by a research firm working for Clinton's campaign and compiled a "dossier" alleging links between Russia and the Trump campaign.

McCabes leaks will lead to questions about other things and that is where this will get interesting.

And TG how delusional are you not to see how our democracy was being undermined with the hate by the left towards Trump?

[woodchip]

The DOJ waited so long that the term for the grand jury expired. Why wait so long, hmmmm? Plus several DOJ prosecutors eventually left the case for the same reason, nothing was happening. And Washington DC juries are notoriously liberal and Trump haters, so things might not go the way you think woody.

https://www.dailysignal.com/2019/09/03/ ... ould-mean/

Juries aren't the issue. What comes out in the discovery phase and trial is what will be interesting.

[Vander]

Calling people names when you don't know the entire picture is premature and unbecoming.

Yeah, I thought better of it, apparently while you were composing your reply. (it wasn't there when I edited)

I should've just said your theories are moronic, lacking any kind of proof, and miserably fail simple tests of logic. For some reason, I'm guessing cognitive dissonance, you'd rather believe the FBI was some bastion of left wing radicals plotting a coup than acknowledge the obvious truth everyone outside your cult knows, that Trump lies to protect himself and his image.

[woodchip]

Calling people names when you don't know the entire picture is premature and unbecoming.

Yeah, I thought better of it, apparently while you were composing your reply. (it wasn't there when I edited)

I should've just said your theories are moronic, lacking any kind of proof, and miserably fail simple tests of logic. For some reason, I'm guessing cognitive dissonance, you'd rather believe the FBI was some bastion of left wing radicals plotting a coup than acknowledge the obvious truth everyone outside your cult knows, that Trump lies to protect himself and his image.

You do realize my op has nothing to do with Trump so keep on wearing those blinders...they make you look, well...moronic. I'm more interested to see what happens with the FISA court when it is determined they were lied to and evidence mis-represented.

[Vander]

Of course it has to do with Trump. Who cares about McCabe, other than to propagate some batsh!t conspiracy against Trump? Trump is why you say "when it is determined" and not "if it is determined." You have to believe the investigation is illegitimate, so you're here talking about "Dominos" falling, trying to infect us with your crazy.

[vision]

McCabes leaks will lead to questions about other things and that is where this will get interesting.

It won't, unless you drank the "Deep State" Kool-Aid.

I'm happy you are interested in justice, law, and order, but it would be nice if you weren't so selective about who you applied it to. That's the difference between you and the rest of us here. You'll defend bad people and bad decisions if it suits your ego. We don't. We're not hypocrites.

The bubble you're in is a sarcophagus .

[Tunnelcat]

The DOJ waited so long that the term for the grand jury expired. Why wait so long, hmmmm? Plus several DOJ prosecutors eventually left the case for the same reason, nothing was happening. And Washington DC juries are notoriously liberal and Trump haters, so things might not go the way you think woody.

https://www.dailysignal.com/2019/09/03/ ... ould-mean/

Juries aren't the issue. What comes out in the discovery phase and trial is what will be interesting.

Still going to be a DC grand jury. Local people and Trump's burned every bridge he's crossed and screwed over a lot of people in DC. We'll see.

And if you don't think Trump is kissing Putin's ass and Carter Page is just a poor victim in all this, wake the Hell up and start reading or listening to news sources other than Fox News. Now it's Ukraine that Trump's using for his nefarious deeds. He's essentially trying to blackmail them, siccing his lap dog Giuliani on Ukraine in order to "ask" them to find any kind of dirt on Joe Biden, all in return for $250 million in security assistance he's promised. Scratch my back or I'll slice up yours. Never mind that Ukraine hasn't ever found any dirt on Biden either. A subtle request to make up something perhaps? I'm quite sure Russia would love it if Trump withheld that money from a country Russia most certainly wants to annex. Don't you get it woody? Trump is neck deep in his bromance with Putin and he's screwing the U.S. while doing it. Our President is a damn TRAITOR and his hubris is getting so blatant, even you should eventually see it through your orange colored glasses. Why do you think our intelligence agencies kept their little Russian spy exfiltration job in 2017 a secret from President Trump WHILE they were doing it? Perhaps they were worried Trump might blab things to Putin before they got this spy and his family out of Russia? Remember, this particular inner circle spy gave us the solid information the Putin actually ordered his agencies to meddle in the 2016 U.S. election just to get Trump elected president. WHY? And now they have to hide this guy's whereabouts from Trump too, because Trump would be willing to blab the information to Putin just to please him. Then Putin could perform one of his unethical political assassinations on OUR own soil.

https://www.politicususa.com/2019/09/09 ... biden.html

[Top Gun]

Woody doesn't give a ★■◆● about any of this because a person with an R next to his name won and It doesn't matter that he's actively working to undermine our democracy because yay team! People like woody are beyond saving and should just be ostracized as much as possible to keep their damage to a minimum.

[Krom]

Instead of looking for the needle in a haystack, what woodchip and friends are doing here is looking for the hay in a needlestack. Even if you find one, you still come out as a literal pincushion.

[woodchip]

Woody doesn't give a ★■◆● about any of this because a person with an R next to his name won and It doesn't matter that he's actively working to undermine our democracy because yay team! People like woody are beyond saving and should just be ostracized as much as possible to keep their damage to a minimum.

So govt. agencies actively working to mess with a election is ok with you. Sad

[Krom]

So govt. agencies actively working to mess with a election is ok with you. Sad

Sure doesn't seem to bother you when said agency is from the Kremlin...

[vision]

So govt. agencies actively working to mess with a election is ok with you. Sad

LOL! Please expand on your ideas on election security and what can be done, and show how this administration is working toward your goals. We would LOVE to hear it.

[Tunnelcat]

It's only a bad thing if the Dems seek Russian assistance in winning elections. In fact, the formerly all-things-having-to-do-with-Russia-is-bad Republicans are now embracing Russian assistance like a solid gold toilet. I guess if that's what they think it now takes to win elections, they've sunk pretty low into the political sewer. How about the party get a backbone, stand up, show some compassion, honesty, fortitude and return to your old roots? Maybe that would garner more votes and election wins for your party instead of kissing Russian ass to succeed. The way they are now, I wouldn't vote for a Republican if you paid me.

Remember woody, that Russian spy extracted in 2017 was the very source who gave our intelligence agencies proof that Putin ordered the interference in our 2016 election. The reason was to get their hand picked lackey, Trump, elected in 2016. So it would have been a travesty of justice if our government agencies DIDN'T investigate what was going on with the election in 2016. On a side note, after further reading, it also seems CNN exaggerated their claims that Trump's sloppy handling of secret intelligence was the reason they pulled the spy out. So even though this spy was exfiltrated to the U.S., it seems it was for some other concerns that our intelligence agencies had about the situation. Brennen didn't even tell Obama about this source when they tried to exfiltrate him in 2016 because the information he supplied was so delicate. Whether or not Trump's sloppy handling of secret intelligence affected the decision to pull this guy out of Russia still doesn't negate the fact that this spy confirmed that Putin ordered his agencies to interfere with our election in 2016. THAT PART IS FACT. Live with it woody. Putin wanted Trump elected in 2016 and he pulled out all the stops to make it happen. So ask yourself this one question. Why?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions ... utType=amp

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/09/us/p ... ussia.html

[Vander]

So govt. agencies actively working to mess with a election is ok with you. Sad

Nobody is OK with that, but you haven't shown any evidence that this has happened other than wild speculation and innuendo. Certainly nothing that substantiates the wide ranging conspiracy you suggest.

Has anyone actually gotten in trouble for anything they did that harmed Trump during the election? Did any of the numerous IG investigations of these people find anything? Anything at all? Who was it that leaked that there was an investigation of Trump before the election? ★■◆●ing nobody, that's who. You know what these IG investigations are finding? That people acted inappropriately in ways that harmed Clinton. Because the FBI is filled with ★■◆●ing Republican cops.

What's more likely, there was a high level government conspiracy to keep Trump from getting elected, or the President is just ★■◆●ing lying again?

[Top Gun]

Glorious Leader never lies, it is reality that is wrong!

[woodchip]

McCabes leaks will lead to questions about other things and that is where this will get interesting.

It won't, unless you drank the "Deep State" Kool-Aid.

And you know this how?

[woodchip]

Of course it has to do with Trump. Who cares about McCabe, other than to propagate some batsh!t conspiracy against Trump? Trump is why you say "when it is determined" and not "if it is determined." You have to believe the investigation is illegitimate, so you're here talking about "Dominos" falling, trying to infect us with your crazy.

Why is it illegitimate? And the collusion investigation was not.

[woodchip]

So govt. agencies actively working to mess with a election is ok with you. Sad

LOL! Please expand on your ideas on election security and what can be done, and show how this administration is working toward your goals. We would LOVE to hear it.

How about a picture ID for all the voters. And how about not issuing a drivers license to people who sneak into the country?

[woodchip]

So govt. agencies actively working to mess with a election is ok with you. Sad

Sure doesn't seem to bother you when said agency is from the Kremlin...

you'll have to remind me where I said that.

[woodchip]

So govt. agencies actively working to mess with a election is ok with you. Sad

Nobody is OK with that, but you haven't shown any evidence that this has happened other than wild speculation and innuendo. Certainly nothing that substantiates the wide ranging conspiracy you suggest.

Has anyone actually gotten in trouble for anything they did that harmed Trump during the election? Did any of the numerous IG investigations of these people find anything? Anything at all? Who was it that leaked that there was an investigation of Trump before the election? ★■◆●ing nobody, that's who. You know what these IG investigations are finding? That people acted inappropriately in ways that harmed Clinton. Because the FBI is filled with ★■◆●ing Republican cops.

What's more likely, there was a high level government conspiracy to keep Trump from getting elected, or the President is just ★■◆●ing lying again?

I suggest you wait until the investigations are completed before you look for proof. As to speculation, seems there was 2 years of it right here on this board about Trumps collusion. And by your use of the word "★■◆●" repeatedly shows you are getting flustered.

[vision]

How about a picture ID for all the voters. And how about not issuing a drivers license to people who sneak into the country?

Careful, your racism is leaking.

I'll gladly back a voting ID if:

• The government covers the entire cost of issuing it and ensures the disadvantaged can get one.
• Everyone is automatically and permanently registered to vote upon:
  • Reaching the legal voting age
  • Becoming a citizen
• Voting rights are not stripped for felony violation or any reason whatsoever
• Election day becomes a national holiday
• Gerrymandering is outlawed
• We implement complete and total campaign finance reform

If you are serious about election reform and equality, then these requests should be a no-brainier. DON'T YOU AGREE WOODCHIP?

[Vander]

Why is it illegitimate? And the collusion investigation was not.

You've misinterpreted me. I was saying you have to believe "the collusion investigation" was illegitimate. I absolutely think there's legitimate reason for the IG investigation, if only because we're talking about surveillance of a presidential campaign. The more oversight of the entire FISA process the better, and I've never stated otherwise. But it has to be done in good faith, and I have concerns that Bill Barr has shown himself to be a bad faith actor. You'll have to excuse me if I don't fall for the quick headlines when the IG report is made public. We'll need to see the fine print. Or as with Barr's disingenuous Mueller unveiling, simply the print.

I suggest you wait until the investigations are completed before you look for proof. As to speculation, seems there was 2 years of it right here on this board about Trumps collusion.

Let's talk about two years, shall we? Republicans held the House, Senate, and Presidency for two years. Complete control. Between them, they could investigate and declassify anything their little hearts desired. "Release the memo" they cried as if they were powerless to release Nunes' comically selective memo. Why didn't they capture this evil cabal instead of circulating disingenuous bullsh!t? Do you have a theory as to why the treasonous Susan "unmasking" Rice is still walking free? Why wasn't Hillary perp walked? I seem to remember "lock her up" being a thing.

Yes, it was complete speculation and hyperbole to say Trump was some sort of agent of Moscow. But it was not speculation to point out that the things he was doing certainly showed an alignment of goals. And if you go through any of my old posts, you'll likely find that I did have a healthy skepticism, and that my beliefs were and are consistent with known and likely facts. I'm always trying to decipher what objective reality is, and make the case for my beliefs while welcoming challenges to them. The Mueller Report showed plenty of "collusion" so do we still have to call it speculation? It also plainly detailed the obstruction that hampered the expanded knowledge of that "collusion." So I'll make you a deal, I'll acknowledge whatever is in the actual IG report, if you acknowledge what's in the actual Mueller Report.

And by your use of the word "★■◆●" repeatedly shows you are getting flustered.

You're god damn right I'm flustered. And it sucks because I know the overarching philosophy of your cult is to piss people like me off, and I hate to give you what you want. We have a comically corrupt President fronting for a Republican party whose governing goal seems to be preventing democratic change and the complete dismantling of functional government at a time when we need to be drastically changing our entire civilization to prevent collapse of the global ecosystem. And "my side" seems intent on slow walking the use of their newly won bit of power to prevent it all because they're afraid of pissing off some car dealership owner in the rust belt because they think he wants bipartisanship.

I honestly think I'm holding it together pretty well.

[Krom]

So govt. agencies actively working to mess with a election is ok with you. Sad

Sure doesn't seem to bother you when said agency is from the Kremlin...

you'll have to remind me where I said that.

You didn't say anything, which implies it doesn't bother you.

[Tunnelcat]

So govt. agencies actively working to mess with a election is ok with you. Sad

Sure doesn't seem to bother you when said agency is from the Kremlin...

you'll have to remind me where I said that.

You didn't say anything, which implies it doesn't bother you.

Yep. There's plenty of actual proof that the Kremlin meddled in the 2016 election and that Putin himself wanted his hand-picked lackey, Donald J. Trump, elected our president. So I guess those piddling details don't bother woodchip.

[Vander]

Personally, I thought the "Trump is a Manchurian Candidate" take was always somewhat ridiculous, but it really can't be denied at this point that Trump did have secret financial motivations to be sweet towards Russia throughout the election, and that Trump lied about it all throughout the election, providing Russia even more leverage over Trump. And all of that isn't even really connected to the hacking/bot farm crap, except as part of an overall strategy.

[Tunnelcat]

Trump STILL has financial motivations to be sweet towards Russia. He'd still love to get a Trump Moscow built. Either that or the "Golden Showers" video is real and he doesn't want it to ever see the light of day. I mean, why else is this man kissin' Putin patootie so much?

[Vander]

I think he kisses Putin's ass because he wants to be Putin. Money was the gravity that brought Trump into Putin's orbit, but I think once he was elected it changed. I think Trump fantasizes about standing shoulder to shoulder with him on a stage radiating power and demanding respect. (the reality in Helsinki, though, was him looking like a whipped dog)

He's always envied wealthy people that got the respect he never got. They have wealth and he has wealth, but they don't respect him because he's basically a huckster. He grudges against wealthy people that don't respect him, and absolutely loves those that throw him a bone.

In this same regard, I think his authoritarian governing tendencies spring from wanting to be able to demand the respect of those who wouldn't normally give it. He hates allied leaders that think he's ridiculous. They have power and he has power, but don't respect him. The autocrats, however, don't have to worry about things like elections, so they can throw him a bone. And he absolutely loves them for it.

Just a guess, though.

[woodchip]

Trump STILL has financial motivations to be sweet towards Russia. He'd still love to get a Trump Moscow built. Either that or the "Golden Showers" video is real and he doesn't want it to ever see the light of day. I mean, why else is this man kissin' Putin patootie so much?

If so why did he place sanctions against Russia?

[woodchip]

I think he kisses Putin's ass because he wants to be Putin. Money was the gravity that brought Trump into Putin's orbit, but I think once he was elected it changed. I think Trump fantasizes about standing shoulder to shoulder with him on a stage radiating power and demanding respect. (the reality in Helsinki, though, was him looking like a whipped dog)

He's always envied wealthy people that got the respect he never got. They have wealth and he has wealth, but they don't respect him because he's basically a huckster. He grudges against wealthy people that don't respect him, and absolutely loves those that throw him a bone.

In this same regard, I think his authoritarian governing tendencies spring from wanting to be able to demand the respect of those who wouldn't normally give it. He hates allied leaders that think he's ridiculous. They have power and he has power, but don't respect him. The autocrats, however, don't have to worry about things like elections, so they can throw him a bone. And he absolutely loves them for it.

Just a guess, though.

Indeed just a guess, akin to people guessing Obama didn't have a valid birth cert.

[vision]

If so why did he place sanctions against Russia?

Do you know what sanctions are?

[Vander]

Indeed just a guess, akin to people guessing Obama didn't have a valid birth cert.

Nah, they weren't guessing.

[Tunnelcat]

Trump STILL has financial motivations to be sweet towards Russia. He'd still love to get a Trump Moscow built. Either that or the "Golden Showers" video is real and he doesn't want it to ever see the light of day. I mean, why else is this man kissin' Putin patootie so much?

If so why did he place sanctions against Russia?

Hell, the Dems and other Russia hawks in Congress practically had to pull Trump's toenails to get those sanctions put on Russia.

https://www.newsweek.com/trump-white-ho ... tin-619508

https://thehill.com/policy/national-sec ... -sanctions

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/02/worl ... tions.html

Oh but Trump, with the GOP's help, keeps on trying to chip away at those sanctions. So if you say Trump wants to sanction Russia, why is he trying so hard to remove them?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/us-polic ... sanctions/

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics ... ions-syria