Pelosi, Impeach Trump

Vander · Post by **Vander** » Sun Oct 06, 2019 7:49 pm

If/when the Conservative Industrial Complex tries to divorce itself from Trump, they'll need to stick the knife in him very quickly. They can't have a long messy divorce and still remain relevant.

If it does happen, it will be interesting to observe their messaging apparatus perform from outside the echo chamber. By most measures, the conservative messaging machine is very effective at swaying opinion, with unparalleled message discipline. I bet it will be stark, like one day all the pols, Limbaugh, Dobbs, Hannity, Carlson, Ingraham, etc., will be devoted to Dear Leader, and the next he's the worst person in the world and clashing with the heroic Mitch McConnell. And I bet the action that flips the switch will be completely arbitrary and redundant. Like, he extorts Bolivia for a building permit for Trump Tower La Paz AND THAT'S JUST TOO FAR.

Or, you know, he continues to use his massive presidential powers to distort reality, wins 2020 and sets up, Junior in 2024, and we'll look back at these past 3 years as the good old days.

Spidey · Post by **Spidey** » Mon Oct 07, 2019 9:34 am

Well the Democrats could do everyone a big favor and run someone electable this time, and not tell everyone that they have a 99.99% chance of winning, so the lazycrats will actually go out and vote.

I don’t think any of those oddballs running now, really cut the mustard.

Vander · Post by **Vander** » Mon Oct 07, 2019 10:58 am

Sure, this mess is the Democrat's fault. And to fix it, they should definitely run someone a Republican would vote for to energize the Democratic base. Christ.

Spidey · Post by **Spidey** » Mon Oct 07, 2019 11:58 am

I think both parties can share the blame for Trump, considering how the Republicans have done nothing for his base, and the pure hatred and abuse from the Democrats over the past few decades, but that is a subject for debate, my point wasn’t who is to blame, but what can be done at this point.

Nominate another loser, and spend the next years in misery…choice is yours.

vision · Post by **vision** » Mon Oct 07, 2019 12:48 pm

Spidey wrote: ↑Mon Oct 07, 2019 9:34 amI don’t think any of those oddballs running now, really cut the mustard.

Fox News poll showing Trump losing to all Democratic front-runners (August 11-13, 2019):
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/fox-ne ... nto-second

By huge margins.

Vander · Post by **Vander** » Mon Oct 07, 2019 1:27 pm

Spidey wrote:choice is yours

Apparently not, since you think I need to make my choices based on what other people want. Your vote or non-vote isn't my choice, it's yours. Own it. If you'd rather see another four years of President Trump than a President Sanders, that's your choice, not mine.

Krom · Post by **Krom** » Mon Oct 07, 2019 3:07 pm

Any Functioning Adult 2020

Tunnelcat · Post by **Tunnelcat** » Mon Oct 07, 2019 3:25 pm

Krom wrote: ↑Mon Oct 07, 2019 3:07 pm Any Functioning Adult 2020

Actually saw that one on a car today.

Spidey wrote: ↑Mon Oct 07, 2019 11:58 am I think both parties can share the blame for Trump, considering how the Republicans have done nothing for his base, and the pure hatred and abuse from the Democrats over the past few decades, but that is a subject for debate, my point wasn’t who is to blame, but what can be done at this point.

Nominate another loser, and spend the next years in misery…choice is yours.

Yes, I can agree with you on your first point, that it WAS the Dems fault for losing in 2016 because they ran a very arrogant, divisive and much loathed candidate, Hillary Clinton. Gawd I hated her guts. Then the Dems were stupid enough to assume she'd win in a landslide, especially against an imbecile like Trump. Even a lot of Dems despised Hillary, but not enough to keep the arrogant Dem machine from crowning her their main candidate in 2016. So with that setup, just enough Dem voters held their noses or crossed their fingers and voted for Trump. So he won and now we've got this national disaster called Trump.

But you seem to be ignoring the pure hatred and abuse being spewed by the Republicans towards the liberals right now, with the most vitriolic nonsense coming from their master abuser and hater, Donald Trump. Do you even listen to some of his rallies? His speeches are filled with nothing but pure venom, hatred, paranoia, nutty lies, crazy conspiracy theories and blame casting which is exclusively directed towards the liberals and Dems like they're his public whipping boy and ratings generator. It's the worst crap I've ever heard uttered by any president, let alone a candidate and what's worse, he's getting off on it. It even pisses me off he does these rallies on the public dime, when all he does is spew propaganda and hate. Just wait and watch the next one in Lake Charles, LA. With the impeachment going full bore, I bet it will be a real liberal and intelligence community barn burner, attacking the whistleblowers like national traitors. You can bet any liberal-minded person would take extreme offense at all this BS, so I don't blame them for getting pissed off every time Trump opens his pie hole. And Republicans just want us all to forgive and forget all this bashing and illegal everything that Trump's been doing while in office and move on? I'm all for working with Republicans because that's the only way things will get done in this country, but fat chance of that happening with the current crop of Republicans who've long since dropped their financial conservatism, national pride and just plain backbone. All they are now is a bunch of wackos who are willing schmooze up to despots and authoritarians while selling their souls in the process. They're corrupting their former ideals and standing just to keep power and win elections. They can't go any lower than the sewer and I hope that's where they rot.

Tunnelcat · Post by **Tunnelcat** » Mon Oct 07, 2019 10:54 pm

Too bad Trump can't be impeached for throwing to the wolves one of our best allies in Syria after talking shop and promising gifts to yet another dictator. Oh, and Trump's got it all wrong with his little "explanation" for this move. Russia will be very happy we're leaving Syria.

https://news.yahoo.com/trump-gives-ramb ... 26245.html

And surprise, the sleeping Republicans are actually waking up and saying something about this little Trump debacle. Will wonders never cease.

Vander · Post by **Vander** » Tue Oct 08, 2019 8:04 am

Tunnelcat wrote:it WAS the Dems fault for losing in 2016 because they ran a very arrogant, divisive and much loathed candidate, Hillary Clinton. Gawd I hated her guts.

I understand what you're saying, I didn't like Clinton and spent months tying myself in knots trying to justify voting for her when I really just wanted her to go away. I voted for Sanders in the CA primary well after she had the nomination locked. But the simple fact is that people who voted for Clinton did not vote for Trump, so I don't see how they specifically can be blamed for losing an election over people who did not vote for Clinton. Refraining from voting for the lesser of two evils does not magically conjure into existence a better choice.

And surely, if there's anyone ultimately to blame for the current circumstances we find ourselves in, it's all of us. "Every nation gets the government it deserves." We, all of us as a whole, through apathy, disinterest, nihilism, cynicism, or simply poor judgement, are to blame.

vision · Post by **vision** » Tue Oct 08, 2019 11:44 am

Vander wrote: ↑Tue Oct 08, 2019 8:04 amWe, all of us as a whole, through apathy, disinterest, nihilism, cynicism, or simply poor judgement, are to blame.

I'll take that blame, and I'm sorry. I was a Tea Party supporter in the mid-2000's before I realized, thanks to the recession, that we need major changes that involve heavy regulation and rooting out of corruption. I've never been a Democrat, but at least some of them pretend to care about a better future for everyone.

Krom · Post by **Krom** » Tue Oct 08, 2019 4:40 pm

Republicans believe that the government is always doomed to fail at everything it tries and when they are elected they do everything in their power to make it a reality, which makes it really hard to vote for them when you realize so many of our problems require government action to even begin to resolve.

Somehow military spending is always exempted from that belief which I find ridiculous since it is the one place where it has been consistently true for the last half a century. Think about how much further along we would be if we had spent all that military budget on sustainable energy and clean manufacturing instead.

Tunnelcat · Post by **Tunnelcat** » Tue Oct 08, 2019 9:10 pm

Vander wrote: ↑Tue Oct 08, 2019 8:04 am
Tunnelcat wrote:it WAS the Dems fault for losing in 2016 because they ran a very arrogant, divisive and much loathed candidate, Hillary Clinton. Gawd I hated her guts.
I understand what you're saying, I didn't like Clinton and spent months tying myself in knots trying to justify voting for her when I really just wanted her to go away. I voted for Sanders in the CA primary well after she had the nomination locked. But the simple fact is that people who voted for Clinton did not vote for Trump, so I don't see how they specifically can be blamed for losing an election over people who did not vote for Clinton. Refraining from voting for the lesser of two evils does not magically conjure into existence a better choice.

And surely, if there's anyone ultimately to blame for the current circumstances we find ourselves in, it's all of us. "Every nation gets the government it deserves." We, all of us as a whole, through apathy, disinterest, nihilism, cynicism, or simply poor judgement, are to blame.

Well, you and I both voted for Sanders in the Primary. But how many of those Sanders votes actually went to Hillary in the main election and how many just stayed home and said eff Hillary? Quite a lot I'm guessing. And here's another issue. How many Democrats voted for Trump? Judging from a lot of comments that came from many rural working class voters in those formerly Blue Collar States who actually admitted to doing just that after the election, gave Trump the win in the Electoral College. I'm willing to bet if Sanders had won the primary instead of Hillary, he would've beat Trump. I think Sanders had far more supporters than Trump ever did.

Krom wrote: ↑Tue Oct 08, 2019 4:40 pm Republicans believe that the government is always doomed to fail at everything it tries and when they are elected they do everything in their power to make it a reality, which makes it really hard to vote for them when you realize so many of our problems require government action to even begin to resolve.

Somehow military spending is always exempted from that belief which I find ridiculous since it is the one place where it has been consistently true for the last half a century. Think about how much further along we would be if we had spent all that military budget on sustainable energy and clean manufacturing instead.

No, I think Republicans HATE the Idea of a government. They don't like the idea of it interfering in their free market capitalistic utopia and that's the real reason they don't want government. All social programs are best left up to vagaries of the free market. Sink or swim, work or die. Let people do what they want with their land. Let the market take care of clean water and air. Let business do whatever it takes to make as much profit as it wants. They want to make it fail on purpose to meet that end. The ONLY reason they want a "government" is to run JUST the military, period. Which makes we wonder, what conniptions are going on the Republicanland right now as Trump screws up the military?

Vander · Post by **Vander** » Wed Oct 09, 2019 8:29 am

Tunnelcat wrote:I'm willing to bet if Sanders had won the primary instead of Hillary, he would've beat Trump. I think Sanders had far more supporters than Trump ever did.

This is impossible to know, but Sanders lost to Clinton, and it wasn't exactly a nail biter. Would Clinton primary voters vote for Sanders in the general? A larger number of them didn't vote for Obama in 2008 than Sanders primary voters voted for Clinton in 2016, but those were much different circumstances.

Anyway, my point is that I think it's stupid to choose a primary candidate based on what you think other people want instead of what you yourself want. It's entirely likely that people voted for Clinton over Sanders because she was seen as more "electable." "Electability" is just someone else's opinion. And I think it's especially foolish to choose a Democratic candidate you think would attract Republican votes.

Spidey · Post by **Spidey** » Wed Oct 09, 2019 9:07 am

JFTR I never said or implied that the Democrats should nominate someone that can get Republican votes, Democrats shouldn’t need republican votes considering they outnumber them by quite a bit, Democrats only need Democrat votes and independent…also good turnout.

Any candidate with that kind of appeal, will get their share of Republican votes just as a bonus.

As for the idea of voting for someone you “like” instead of someone electable…everyone has that right, and I won’t argue with you there, but you should at least consider the bigger picture.

Does that sound like a guilt trip...I just want this nightmare to end.

Vander · Post by **Vander** » Wed Oct 09, 2019 11:58 am

Sorry, I made you the avatar for every never-Trump conservative that says Dems are moving too far to the left for them so that I could vent. My apologies.

Tunnelcat · Post by **Tunnelcat** » Wed Oct 09, 2019 10:11 pm

Spidey wrote: ↑Wed Oct 09, 2019 9:07 amAs for the idea of voting for someone you “like” instead of someone electable…everyone has that right, and I won’t argue with you there, but you should at least consider the bigger picture.

At this point and with this president, any functioning adult would suffice.

Oh and if the Dems need even more ammunition with which to impeach Trump, this just came out today. When it rains, it pours.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... nd=premium

It appears that Trump and his lackeys, some of which are now in prison for past escapades involving Turkey and Ukraine, have been in bed with Turkey's Dictator Ergodan far more than we suspected. Now we've got Trump's pet sycophant fixer Giulliani mixed up in this as well.Trump just kissed his beloved dictator's butt after a phone call and gave the best gift Ergodan could ask for, permission to invade Syria and slaughter the Kurds by pulling out our troops that were in his way. I think this one act will further destroy our reputation that the U.S. reliably stands behind it's allies when it needs their help for decades to come. Russia will also benefit from this as well, so I guess Trump gave Putin yet another love kiss. Either way, the next time we need military help from some local group in some country, they'll probably say: "Screw you". Die for yourself. We wouldn't trust you to watch our backs, ever".

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/erdog ... 2019-10-09

Plus, since the Kurds are now actually running and fighting, they're putting a very low priority on guarding thousands of ISIS fighters they have imprisoned. They may just leave them to their own devices, in other words let them go, when they have other priorities like fighting or fleeing a much stronger Turkish Force after WE abandoned them. It looks like Turkey doesn't want to take over the problem either. What say you woody? Trump may have just re-energized ISIS.

https://time.com/5694437/turkey-syria-trump-ypg-kurds/

Now the SDF is considering leaving the extremists under their control to their own devices. On Monday, General Mazloum Kobani Abdi, the group’s commander, told NBC news that watching over the ISIS prisoners had become a “second priority” as the group’s fighters rush to Syria’s northern border in anticipation of a Turkish offensive.

vision · Post by **vision** » Fri Oct 11, 2019 4:13 pm

Wow, this Ukraine corruption is bigger than everything in the Mueller report. Looks like another personal lawyer of Trump's might go to jail.

And now Turkey bombs our forces in Syria. That's an order of magnitude worse then Benghazi.

What an absolute s-h-i-t-s-h-o-w.

Tunnelcat · Post by **Tunnelcat** » Fri Oct 11, 2019 5:38 pm

Wow, is right. I hope Giuliani gets his just desserts. What a scumbag. Trump's new personal fixer is as corrupt as his original, who's now sitting in prison too. Time for Trump to serve some federal time too, after he gets his butt impeached. What an effing mess. If the Senate doesn't vote to remove Trump from office after the House impeaches him, they'll loose whatever smidgen of respect they used to have, which wasn't much to begin with.

Oh and the supreme Trump apologist and puppet, Lindsay Graham, just got pranked by the Russians and contradicted himself on Turkey and the Kurds, as usual with this idiot. Whatever fits his narrative the asswipe.

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news ... phone-call

Lindsey Graham on Trump, AFTER our troop pullout and the Turks moved in.

Tunnelcat · Post by **Tunnelcat** » Fri Oct 11, 2019 8:29 pm

Holee crap! The corruption floodgates have let loose. Giuliani is going to end up as Trump's fall guy, whether he wants to or not. Either way, the sleazebag will deserve it.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/justic ... p-n1064791

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/11/us/p ... ation.html

https://www.alternet.org/2019/10/inside ... -henchmen/

Vander · Post by **Vander** » Sat Oct 12, 2019 11:25 am

vision wrote:Wow, this Ukraine corruption is bigger than everything in the Mueller report.

Some of it seems to be an extension of Mueller Vol.2. Asking for a Crowdstrike investigation is an attempt to discredit Mueller Vol.1. It's what he asked for first on the Ukraine call, before the Biden dirt. He's got Barr flying around the world investigating the deep state conspiracy. This is why Trump had Giuliani in Ukraine in the first place as far as I can tell. Giuliani's been in contact with Manafort, and they've been trying to clear Manafort's name, also to discredit Mueller.

I'm willing to bet that that, along with the Biden dirt, are what Trump wants most out of all this, and the natural gas scam is secondary. That's someone else's scam that he's helping along to get what he really wants.

Tunnelcat · Post by **Tunnelcat** » Mon Oct 14, 2019 1:50 pm

https://news.yahoo.com/polls-show-17-po ... 46889.html

Tunnelcat · Post by **Tunnelcat** » Fri Oct 18, 2019 11:16 am

Did they just legalize pot in D.C. or something? You just can't make up this stuff it's so crazy.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... et-over-it

Oh, and Trump just blatantly handed the House Dems another violation of the Emoluments Clause in the Constitution. Who knew impeachment could be so easy, except for the Senate Republicans.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/17/us/p ... doral.html

Aaaand, when was the last time the U.S. had to retreat so fast that we had to bomb our own base just to reduce it's "usefulness" to an enemy, in this case Russia? Our military now looks like a frightened dog running away with it tail between it's legs, but according to Trump, it was a "Strategically Brilliant" move.

https://crooksandliars.com/2019/10/us-b ... side-syria

Tunnelcat · Post by **Tunnelcat** » Fri Nov 15, 2019 3:33 pm

Everybody around Trump is being indicted and found guilty and this one is from the Mueller Investigation. Tsk, tsk, this time it's the legendary "Dirty Trickster" Roger Stone, the man who has a tattoo of Richard Nixon's face on his back. The sycophants in crime are falling like dominoes.

https://www.vox.com/2019/11/15/20964909 ... al-verdict

Since Trump loves to burn anyone who's being disloyal to him as this impeachment drags on, Giuliani worries he may be next, so he's hinted that he's got "insurance". This will be so good if it ever plays out.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... ance-loyal

vision · Post by **vision** » Fri Nov 15, 2019 11:38 pm

Put all these losers in prison.

Also, watching the impeachment hearings has been entertaining. I can't believe how dramatic the Republicans are. They all deserve acting awards.

Krom · Post by **Krom** » Sat Nov 16, 2019 6:51 am

Acting out is the only thing they are good at anymore. The democrats have managed to effectively stall any further legislation for the next two years (with a huge helping hand from moscow mitch who just won't bring anything that comes out of a democrat controlled house to a vote) so we shouldn't get any further disasters like the tax reform bill.

vision · Post by **vision** » Wed Nov 20, 2019 2:13 pm

LOL! The "were screwed" look on Nunes' face after the Sondland testimony.

Tunnelcat · Post by **Tunnelcat** » Wed Nov 20, 2019 3:48 pm

Hmmm. The "hit in the face with a cold wet fish" look.

Me thinks that the excuse that "Trump was looking to fight Ukraine corruption" is just another load of BS. In fact, Trump and his lackey Rick Perry were diligently working their own little grease-their-influential-friend's-skids "gas deal" with the Ukrainians. It may have not been illegal, but it's certainly a foul smelling scandal considering Perry's position in our government as Energy Secretary. I think "Drain the swamp" has now become "Make it bigger".

https://abcnews.go.com/Business/wireSto ... e-66905094

Then Trump threw Perry under the bus all in the effort to save his own skin. Tsk, such loyalty.

http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/10/ ... raine.html

So is this now a coincidence or just a deflective rumor since I see Perry is still around and it's now November?

https://thehill.com/policy/energy-envir ... nth-report

Top Gun · Post by **Top Gun** » Sat Nov 23, 2019 12:44 pm

Lol. Nunes.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/11/22/politics ... index.html

And Trump doesn't know what computers are.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/trumps-mi ... r-a-server

Tunnelcat · Post by **Tunnelcat** » Sat Nov 23, 2019 2:38 pm

Nunes, the biggest Trump orange-noser and apologist in the world. It must be because it's a disease that can't be cured.

vision · Post by **vision** » Wed Dec 18, 2019 12:07 pm

Counting down the minutes...

Tunnelcat · Post by **Tunnelcat** » Wed Dec 18, 2019 7:31 pm

Not a single Republican defended Trump or his character all day. All they could come up with is "Look at the economy and jobs reports". It didn't matter that our president is a crook and a traitor. What we have is a mob Don running the country and Republicans are saying that we should all be happy and grateful with any results he's "supposedly" been responsible for no matter how much illegal crap he's done to keep his power. Pathetic. And he WILL be impeached. 2 Dems turn-coated, but not enough to make a difference. He won't be removed with all the soulless Republican suckups in the Senate, but it tickles me silly that he's going to be royally pissed off that his legacy is forever tainted.

Krom · Post by **Krom** » Wed Dec 18, 2019 7:50 pm

Not will be impeached, it is official: he has been impeached.

Flatlander · Post by **Flatlander** » Thu Dec 19, 2019 6:10 am

Finally! Third President ever to be impeached, and nothing he can do will change that.

Top Gun · Post by **Top Gun** » Thu Dec 19, 2019 11:46 am

Narrator: "She did."

vision · Post by **vision** » Thu Dec 19, 2019 12:18 pm

Top Gun wrote: ↑Thu Dec 19, 2019 11:46 amNarrator: "She did."

I think it's worth noting how reluctant she was to do this. There were many calls for impeachment before the whistle-blower came forth and Pelosi shelved all of them. I heard that she was saying in closed circles "it was too late in Trump's term to start an impeachment" and that she was basically forced to do this. Personally I've never been a fan of Pelosi (or Democrats), and after this whole event I'm still left with a conflicting view of her. She clearly did her job well, but at the same time it looks like she did everything she could to avoid her duty.

Tunnelcat · Post by **Tunnelcat** » Thu Dec 19, 2019 1:14 pm

Well, hesitant or not, she is starting to play a little hardball by withholding the Articles of Impeachment from the Senate. Of course the Senate wants to make this a short and succinct clown show, without allowing anyone to call any witnesses, pretty much making it all go away. McConnell just wants to acquit with no fanfare, no proper trial. What he's doing is playing a prosecutor who's in bed with the criminal, violating his oath of office and not working for the state or the people LIKE HE'S SUPPOSED TOO. That is not justice, it's a travesty and a crime against the nation. Sure, they'd could call the whistleblower and Hunter Biden, all's fair in love and war. But the Dems could call Bolton, Mulvaney, Giuliani, Lev Parnas and Igor Fruman and get some juicy testimony under oath. Perhaps the Republicans actually fear what they'd have to say.

https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/475 ... mpeachment

LightWolf · Post by **LightWolf** » Thu Dec 19, 2019 3:17 pm

I only caught the debate between 5:30 and 6:00 (when CBS cut off the minority leader), but one thing the speaker before said caught my attention - What do you think of the accusation that the proceedings violated impeachment procedural rules? (I can't quite remember the one that he cited; I think it had something to do with transcripts)

Also wanna point out a quick bit of irony I noticed - During that half hour, one of the Democratic representatives called for an act of bravery on the Republican side to defect from the party line, yet the report I read on the results said that the only defectors were Democrats.

Tunnelcat · Post by **Tunnelcat** » Thu Dec 19, 2019 4:23 pm

LightWolf wrote: ↑Thu Dec 19, 2019 3:17 pm I only caught the debate between 5:30 and 6:00 (when CBS cut off the minority leader), but one thing the speaker before said caught my attention - What do you think of the accusation that the proceedings violated impeachment procedural rules? (I can't quite remember the one that he cited; I think it had something to do with transcripts)

Also wanna point out a quick bit of irony I noticed - During that half hour, one of the Democratic representatives called for an act of bravery on the Republican side to defect from the party line, yet the report I read on the results said that the only defectors were Democrats.

I wish you could remember what procedural rules you're indicating. Most of the rules that the House were following during the Impeachment were drawn up during the Benghazi Hearings in 2015 when Boehner was Majority Leader in the House. Republicans can't discredit what they created.

As to those 2 Dem defectors, they're in districts that Trump won in 2016. It will be interesting to see if they keep their seats, or lose in the next election due to Dem outrage.

Herculosis · Post by **Herculosis** » Thu Dec 19, 2019 5:31 pm

You folks have been so angry for so long, you deserve a happy day. My heartfelt congrats!

Here are my predictions:

1. At this time next year, you'll be lamenting Trump's 2020 re-election, by a wider margin.
2. The house may not go R-majority, but R's will gain seats.
3. R's will not lose any seats in the Senate, and may even gain a couple.
4. RBG will retire during Trump's next term, and his payback for all of this will be to completely ignore any D opinion and pick the most conservative candidate he can find.
5. R's in the senate will still be so angry that they'll ram it down the D's throats.
6. R voters will end up getting the court protected, which is the main reason Trump won in 2016.
7. Everybody wins! You win today, but we win.