Pelosi, Impeach Trump

[Top Gun]

You folks have been so angry for so long, you deserve a happy day. My heartfelt congrats!

Here are my predictions:

1. At this time next year, you'll be lamenting Trump's 2020 re-election, by a wider margin.
2. The house may not go R-majority, but R's will gain seats.
3. R's will not lose any seats in the Senate, and may even gain a couple.
4. RBG will retire during Trump's next term, and his payback for all of this will be to completely ignore any D opinion and pick the most conservative candidate he can find.
5. R's in the senate will still be so angry that they'll ram it down the D's throats.
6. R voters will end up getting the court protected, which is the main reason Trump won in 2016.
7. Everybody wins! You win today, but we win.

Oh yes, reveling in anti-intellectualism and fascism and denial of physical reality while the world burns is a total win for us all. Go team!

[Tunnelcat]

Wow!

https://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/20 ... ffice.html

[vision]

I mean, Herculosis is not wrong, all those things are almost certainly going to happen. We are in one of those regressive moments in history. About 20 years ago I had a history professor describe the patterns of "cultural lag" and it's these kind of events that gave rise to things like the medieval dark ages. The problem we face today is that episodes of cultural lag are happening more frequently because "culture" grows exponentially along with population. The bright side is that this backward slide into authoritarianism will likely be short lived -- relatively speaking. Authoritarianism is comforting for those enduring "Future Shock." The world is scary for those that label themselves as conservatives, and while a lot of their fears are imaginary, they seem just as real as actual threats. Also, we are in the middle of an information war and that complicates things because it's never happened before in history and no one knows how to react.

[vision]

Wow!

https://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/20 ... ffice.html

Holy Crap! That's a big deal.

[Vander]

The bright side is that this backward slide into authoritarianism will likely be short lived -- relatively speaking. Authoritarianism is comforting for those enduring "Future Shock." The world is scary for those that label themselves as conservatives, and while a lot of their fears are imaginary, they seem just as real as actual threats. Also, we are in the middle of an information war and that complicates things because it's never happened before in history and no one knows how to react.

I think the hope that the current rise of authoritarianism will be short lived is misplaced because of the rest of the quoted statement. Quite simply, the world is not going to get less scary for conservatives. There will always be a new group of others ready to be injected into their information bubble to scare them. Some new group of barbarians at the gates, manufactured if necessary, to fear and hate. I don't see any of this changing until there is some sort of systemic collapse, and the chaos that would likely ensue would bring with it a new host of horrors.

[Tunnelcat]

Wow!

https://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/20 ... ffice.html

Holy Crap! That's a big deal.

Welp, Billy Graham is calling it pretty much a load of hogwash even though his father was the one who founded the magazine.

https://www.christianpost.com/news/trum ... ident.html

Even the Christians are divided over this whole thing. Shows you how far to the right conservatives have gone to support Trump if Evangelicals think the Christian Today Magazine is left wing. Even my Christian sister was taken back by the editorial. She keeps going on about where's the evidence against Trump and why is Pelosi holding back on the Senate? She claims she watches all kinds of news, but she couldn't fathom the fact that McConnell was refusing to hold a trial where actual witnesses were called to testify. She keeps on claiming that the Dems already tried Trump, but that's not the case. She needs a civics lesson. The House was only acting like the police, who did the actual investigations and brought forth the charges. The Senate is supposed to be the court, where a trial needs to be conducted by prosecutors, judges and witnesses headed by the top judge in the Supreme Court. McConnell does not want that to happen and he's violating his oath of office to do that. My sister is still living in a bubble despite her claims to watching all sides of the news and I have a feeling a lot of Americans are the same way. Tribalism tends to put blinders on everyone so that they only see what they want to see. I think of myself as a liberal, but if the same situation involved Hillary if she were president, I'd still want to see her impeached AND removed from office with what I've seen Trump accused of so far.

And if anyone want's to know where Trump got the idea of the debunked Ukraine Conspiracy Theory, he got it from Putin himself during a conversation at a G7 summit. Geez, authoritarians love to cover each other's asses like a bunch of dung beetles don't they? Trump is nothing but Putin's lackey. You know that the Russian security services are over there in Ukraine, along with that fired corrupt Ukrainian prosecutor, feeding that idiot Giuliani all sorts of false misinformation about fake Ukraine meddling now just to try and bolster Trump's case. Whatever in the hell happened to Republicans fighting all things Russia? Oh, that's right. Their man Trump loves all things Russia even above people and things in our own country and for the life of me, I can't figure out why. Maybe Putin does have something damming or embarrassing on Trump sitting in his little hot hands. At the very least, Trump is a traitor to our country.

https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-p ... st-2019-12

[vision]

There will always be a new group of others ready to be injected into their information bubble to scare them.

True, and that has me worried as well. It's only recently I've been talking to a few friends about the state of the world and what is essentially full-blown cyber warfare, but most of the people I know are oblivious to it's cause and effects. We're basically in WWIII. We'll have to solve that problem before we can get back on track as a civilization. I admit, things look pretty bleak, we're really at a disadvantage compared to our adversaries.

[Tunnelcat]

We aren't going to battle, let a lone win, a cyber war until we have a leader who's willing to fight and hold a couple of the major offenders accountable, Russia and North Korea. I don't see Trump going down that road at all.

The information keeps on dribbling out. Now we need McConnell to hold an actual trial with actual witnesses, preferably ones from Trump's own cabinet who've been blocked from testifying during those House hearings. Holding a Senate kangaroo court where the sole purpose is to exonerate Trump is an insult to the Constitution.

https://publicintegrity.org/national-se ... nding-law/

[Tunnelcat]

Oh, I can so see this happening. Trump declares war on Iran after they perform a series of major attacks in retaliation for us blowing up their beloved general Qassem Soleimani. So Trump declares martial law after the poop hits the fan and suspends Congress, messily circumventing his little impeachment problem. Why else would our Dictator-in-Chief kick the Iranian hornet's nest NOW and royally piss them off if it wasn't for some personal gain? I mean, the killing was such an insane over-the-top response it warrants a suspicion over motive, even if the guy deserved it. Plus, Trump in one fell swoop, united a divided Iran, screwing up years of trying to get the populace to overthrow the regime. Nice going you Orange Idiot.

[vision]

Plus, Trump in one fell swoop, united a divided Iran, screwing up years of trying to get the populace to overthrow the regime. Nice going you Orange Idiot.

It's actually much worse than that. According to new reports, Soleimani was in Iraq because the US asked Iraq to mediate talks between the two countries. Soleimani came to Iraq in good faith that there would be negotiations between Iran and the US. His assassination is what a textbook villain would do (as if Trump wasn't cartoonishly evil already). The US has proven again, in the worst way possible, that we cannot be trusted and we are extremely violent. When people talk about the US being the biggest evil in the world, this is exactly what they are talking about.

Iraq is evicting the US. We had a foothold in the Middle East and a way to keep checks on all the major players in the region, but now that's all washed away. The world sees Iran as the victim which is definitely not good for the US and it's allies. What a clusterfuck.

[Top Gun]

If anyone in the military had any integrity at all they would directly disobey this batshit insanity. But the fascists are probably drooling over it.

[Tunnelcat]

Plus, Trump in one fell swoop, united a divided Iran, screwing up years of trying to get the populace to overthrow the regime. Nice going you Orange Idiot.

It's actually much worse than that. According to new reports, Soleimani was in Iraq because the US asked Iraq to mediate talks between the two countries. Soleimani came to Iraq in good faith that there would be negotiations between Iran and the US. His assassination is what a textbook villain would do (as if Trump wasn't cartoonishly evil already). The US has proven again, in the worst way possible, that we cannot be trusted and we are extremely violent. When people talk about the US being the biggest evil in the world, this is exactly what they are talking about.

Iraq is evicting the US. We had a foothold in the Middle East and a way to keep checks on all the major players in the region, but now that's all washed away. The world sees Iran as the victim which is definitely not good for the US and it's allies. What a clusterfuck.

I wondered how they knew Soleimani was in that convoy. A double-cross. Trump and Pompeo have taken a page right out of Putin's playbook, use any and all means no matter how evil in their own right to assassinate your enemies. How Russian of us. Pompeo has the gall to sit in front of the American public on Meet the Press this morning and say with a straight face that they just made America safer. Well, now we're looking at a new war in the Middle East while the U.S. gets kicked out of Iraq and that ain't makin' things safer. The man has already lied through his teeth about what Trump was doing in Ukraine, so he has all the truthfulness and honesty of a sleazebag. Sure, Soleimani was a terrorist and a murderer. But why should we lower ourselves into the gutter with a menial retribution action and start yet another war? So now we as a nation will never be trusted in foreign policy ever again. What ever happened to American honor, decency and integrity?

This is the only site I ran across, clearly leftie, that mentions this story vision, but I'm sure it will start leaking out to the mainstream press soon if it's the truth.

https://dailysoundandfury.com/trump-ass ... sian-gulf/

I still think Trump did this to circumvent impeachment somehow, because the impeachment has really gotten under his skin. I don't see him being that stupid as to start yet another war, one in a long line of wars that he himself campaigned on ending, unless he saw a BIG benefit for himself. But never say never.

[Krom]

I have no doubt this guy deserved it, but I'm also going to say this action was a horrible retarded mistake. Remember the poisoning of Sergei and Yulia Skripal in the UK and how pissed off we were about that? Well, this is pretty much the same thing.

[Tunnelcat]

I'm absolutely gobsmacked with Moscow Mitch and the Senate Republicans. A couple of Republicans come on the Sunday News Shows and say that what Trump did was DEFINITELY wrong, that he shouldn't do it again (oh, he will) but it wasn't abuse of power and it wasn't impeachable. They didn't even want Bolton, a dyed in the wool Neocon, to testify and had the gall to call him a RINO. And silly me, Clinton was impeached for a little lie about sex. I will never vote for another "Republican" as long as I live, even if the Dem's serve up a socialist in 2020. In fact, I hope one wins just to see every conservative in the nation go into conniptions, because they deserve it. Their integrity has been flushed down the Trump golden toilet.

[Flatlander]

I will never vote for another "Republican" as long as I live...

Same. I'm gobsmacked that Jay ★■◆●ing Sekulow, one of Pat Robertson's buddies from the 700 Club, was defending Donald ★■◆●ing Trump, the ★■◆●ing President of the United ★■◆●ing States, in the ★■◆● United States Senate impeachment trial.

I keep pinching myself, but it's not a nightmare.

[LightWolf]

Food for thought: A handful of Republicans said what Trump did was wrong but not impeachable. Does this affect anything in your view?

[vision]

I will never vote for another "Republican" as long as I live...

Same.

Ditto. The embarrassment I feel as a former Republican is immense. Never again.

Food for thought: A handful of Republicans said what Trump did was wrong but not impeachable. Does this affect anything in your view?

It makes it worse. What Trump did demands immediate removal from office because it specifically goes against democracy and is 100% authoritarian (you know, that thing we designed our government to prevent). I hate that I feel this way, but the entire Republican party from top to bottom needs to be removed from power completely.

[Tunnelcat]

Food for thought: A handful of Republicans said what Trump did was wrong but not impeachable. Does this affect anything in your view?

Impeachment is a purely political act, because as we've seen, a president really cannot have his power checked unless his own party is willing to put aside their partisan love fest and remember that they have a job to do as one of our branches of government, to keep a president from abusing the power of his office and protecting and upholding the Constitution. What Clinton did for his impeachment was no more illegal than what Trump did when he withheld that aide from Ukraine if you want to use the current Republican standard here. Gingrich forged ahead because he promised his constituents that he would put a check on an immoral President, Bill Clinton. Never mind that Gingrich was doing a little immorality himself at the same time. ★■◆●ing hypocrite. Pelosi ultimately forged ahead because Trump stretched his powers of the office beyond the limit of any previous tolerances and the Dems were pushing for action. Between Mueller and Ukraine, the breaking point was reached. Sure, lying under oath is a crime. So was withholding that aide from Ukraine for the sole purpose of using that as a wedge to gain information against a political opponent. The GAO even came out and said what Trump did was illegal and broke the law. But Clinton was never removed from office and Trump won't be either, all because of partisan stupidity and a soulless greed for power. And I'd like to see how many Americans think it's A OK for a hostile foreign nation to interfere in U.S. elections, especially if what they did got their party's opponent elected. If Hillary had won instead of Trump and the same evidence concerning Russia came out against her that's already come out against Trump, Republicans would be impeaching her right and left as many times as it took.

https://publicintegrity.org/national-se ... n-ukraine/

But here's the thing. I was ticked off at the Dems during the Clinton impeachment when they lined up in lock step behind their man and stood behind him like a bunch of mindless sycophants. I mean, the man is and was a slimebag. His wife is an enabler and a crook. He deserved impeachment. He lied in a deposition, he lied to Congress, he blocked all efforts at finding the truth and he lied to the American people live on TV. That told me he wasn't trustworthy and didn't deserve to remain as president, which by association indicted every Dem that stood beside him in the Rose Garden in defiance. That BS sealed Al Gore's fate in the next election, because a lot of Dems were also ticked off and voted Republican.

Now fast forward to Trump. I mean, this man couldn't tell the truth if his life depended on it. He's done nothing but lie about his kid's involvement in government, using that tie to grease theirs and Trump's businesses. Family is family, no matter what you claim. He's lied about so many affairs with women, under oath, that he makes Clinton look like a piker. He's openly shown that he loves the company of murderous dictators, while spurning our own allies, or worse, abandoning them after years of support. Like the Kurds for example. I mean, Trump literally asks the leader of a foreign nation hostile to our own country, Putin of Russia, for advice. He then ignores long time seasoned advisors who have OUR country's interest at heart. He's got a potty foul mouth not worthy of a man who leads a nation, which makes us the laughing stock of the world. We're still in Iraq and Afghanistan despite his claims he'd be the one to get us out. Our healthcare expenses have gone through the roof and nothing has been done to solve that either. The economy is hot, but all those tax breaks only lined the pockets of the big corporations with stock buybacks and the wealthy who own those stocks. Meanwhile, whole sections of the country have a huge homeless crisis because these people can't afford a home in such a hot market, nor can they get or afford proper drug treatment or mental health care. In fact, a lot of homeless are vets the system has abandoned like so much trash. If I gripe about that too much, it's because it's a ★■◆●ing BIG problem here.

Trump even was investigated for colluding with Russia just to help him get elected. But since he blocked all efforts at finding the truth, that's all Mueller could even come near to charging him with, obstruction of justice, which also flopped. Trump has even co-opted the Department of Justice, one of the branches of government the people need to help check the power of a president and he did it by finally picking a dishonest brown-noser with the same morals as his. He's even got Giuliani, who's technically not a government employee, out running around on the government dime or questionable funding chasing around for after a fake debunked conspiracy theory that was definitely started by a Russian propaganda machine just to switch the blame to Ukraine for the Russian hacking of the Dems before the 2016 election. I mean, the idiot doesn't even know what a server is or how information is stored. Trump's mindless base is lapping up that crap like candy because it's being spoon-fed to them by a propaganda machine they trust, Fox News. Fer cripes sake, I don't lap up everything the liberal outlets spew everyday. But geez, sometimes there's so much redundant information being brought forth from different sources, that a lot of it has to be fact.

Now the Ukraine mess is just another thing he's gotten away with by lying and blocking witnesses and any evidence by claiming a president has absolute power to do so. Well, I've got news for the Republicans. Last I heard, we are a democracy, not a dictatorship. In fact, the Republicans in the Senate don't even want to hear all the NEW evidence that's coming out, even from a Neocon. All they want is an easy acquittal for their Orange God so that he can MAYBE hand them Republican votes come election time. He's out shined Clinton as the master of deception, obfuscation and bald face lying to Congress and the American people. And there's far more evidence against Trump than Clinton ever had to deal with all because a LOT of honest people surrounding Trump had a conscience and the fortitude to come forth and and say: "Hey, there's something rotten going on in the White House". Trump has even trashed the careers of long time well liked diplomats because they wouldn't kiss his ass and do illegal acts to advance his personal agenda. There's STILL evidence oozing out to this day.

I found Trump to be a liar and cheat from day one. He's done nothing but reinforce that to the max during his time in office. He's unfit to be our president IMO. The fact that nearly the entire Republican Party has bowed down to this man with unquestioning loyalty makes me wonder whether all of THEM are even fit to BE in office, let alone get re-elected to that office. Trump definitely does NOT respect the office of the president, he does not respect more than half the people of this nation, nor do I personally want to grace him or his corroded party ever again with my vote to any office. This is the second time in my lifetime that a political party has so violated their oath of office and duty to the people that they deserve a good drubbing in the next election and I sincerely hope they get it. And that's my 2 cents, for what it's worth.

[Vander]

Food for thought: A handful of Republicans said what Trump did was wrong but not impeachable. Does this affect anything in your view?

A handful of Republicans said they believed Christine Blasey Ford and also believed Brett Kavanaugh. Then, like now, the two positions are mutually exclusive. They're just too chickenshit to say they're exercising their power to excuse abhorrent behavior so they can continue exercising their power.

Quite simply, Republicans will ★■◆● on anything and everything to avoid taking a loss.

[Krom]

If only conservatives weren't hyper isolated within an airtight misinformation bubble engineered and controlled by people who are genuinely evil.

[Tunnelcat]

As much as I've excoriated Romney in the past, he made the most bold move in history today, which shows me that there is at least one Republican with a conscience and a soul. As a side note, there were only 4 Senators sitting in the room to even bother to listen his speech. Trump threw the proverbial fit after Romney finished and immediately started name calling like a spurned juvenile bully. The White House even called off a news conference Trump was so pissed off and apoplectic. Eff you Trump and the horse you rode in on.

[Tunnelcat]

Oh, Trump learned his lesson all right you bunch of Republican idiots. He's now going bigger and bolder by blatantly doing it through his lackeys at the DOJ. Suuuuuuure the DOJ meddled before Trump's Tweet. The swamp just got even deeper, dirtier and rotten. Happy trails "conservatives".

https://www.baltimoresun.com/news/crime ... story.html

[Vander]

Trump isn't battling against a deep state. He's creating one.