The Black Swan may destroy the Red Dragon

[vision]

Should we just rip off the band aid, open everything up and let this thing burn through the country fast, giving everyone who survives a herd immunity and get it over with quicker?

WHAT!? No, that's not how any of this works. We don't even know if we CAN develop natural herd immunity from SARS-CoV-2. The three avenues I listed above are in order of worst to best. Letting the virus run unabated would kill more people than all wars the United States has been in combined and permanently affect the economy. Every other country would restrict all future travel and trade with the US if we were to act so stupidly.

[Tunnelcat]

That's why I asked the question, because in the back of my mind, I understand that this virus is very dangerous and the temptation to get it over with for the sake of the economy is very tempting. In that vein, I agree with your statement. But how do you convince these people that this thing can kill a lot of people if we drop our guard? Plus, we really need to know if we can develop immunity to this virus and so far we don't know that for a fact yet. Some people in South Korea are reportedly getting reinfected too. On the other side of things, we have the Aircraft Carrier Roosevelt, where 60% of those sailors on board tested positive and were asymptomatic. We really need testing badly.

What's scary is that I've already seen Trump AND Fox News out there today egging these protestors on to keep up the pressure to open up things. Then you've got these 2 prominent "entertainment doctors" (I use that term loosely, one's not even a doc, link below) spouting the same thing and they have clout with the idiots people that watch them on TV. I mean, these protestors are carrying guns like they're going to start an armed insurrection if they don't get their way. Our country is devolving into chaos because of the actions of our president and his followers. One can only hope that this virus will cull THAT herd since they seem so dead set against protecting themselves from it. Have fun Trumptards.

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2020/04 ... rus-orders

https://www.latimes.com/entertainment-a ... ontroversy

[Krom]

The economic, social and political fallout from letting several million Americans die from the virus over the course of the next few months would likely take decades to recover from. Remaining on lock down until we have the rapid testing and contact tracing capacity to chase down and put out the sparks is the only way we are going to limit the overall damage to something we can endure until treatments and vaccines are widely available. The sooner we develop that testing capacity the sooner we can begin to restart the economy.

[Vander]

But how do you convince these people that this thing can kill a lot of people if we drop our guard?

You can't. All you can do is try and minimize the collateral damage these asshats can cause.

[Top Gun]

With any luck they'll all infect each other and start dropping en masse.

[vision]

With any luck they'll all infect each other and start dropping en masse.

If we're going to bring luck into this, let's instead wish they become wiser. One of my oldest friends has two engineering degrees, but for all his smarts he can't see the problem facing us. It made me sad the other day when he sent me a link to a video claiming this pandemic response was a deep state / globalist conspiracy. He was a big part of my life for a while and I don't want him or his loved ones suffocating to death alone in a hospital.

[Tunnelcat]

I'll keep on protecting myself and by my actions, others from me. I own exactly one old but still functional N95 mask and religiously wear it in public. When that wears out, I'll drag out my sewing machine and make another. I've noticed a lot of people around my town wearing some sort of mask, many home-made, so that 's a good thing. But that's probably because this town is a college town and the people here tend to be more educated, although as vision indicated, educated people can act like utter fools. However, we've even had these idiots protesting in our own capital in Oregon too. These are same people from rural areas who protested our governor's attempt at climate change legislation and they just don't understand what it's like to live in a crowded urban area, where viruses can spread like fire. They think they're safe because they live out in the boonies. Wrong. It'll hit them eventually the way they're behaving. Small towns can easily become hot zones because people are so chummy. Viruses don't care about political affiliation. I also don't think they realize what's it's like to suffocate to death either, which is how this virus kills. And shame on the leader of our great nation fomenting dissent against state governors, who are trying their best without Federal assistance, when he himself has been nothing a hindrance to helping us get through this in one piece.

[Vander]

I'm still trying to wrap my head around the President actively stoking social unrest right now.

[Tunnelcat]

Geezus. These conservative morons have got to be THEE stupidest and most self-centered people on earth. Protesters today in Texas were shouting: "Fire Fauci" and holding signs that said: "My Body, My Choice. Trump 2020". Don't they realize it's not THEIR body the docs are looking out for, but EVERYONE'S bodies and the bodies of all our loved ones if these fools carelessly catch it and spread it, which they will. Holy ★■◆●. This country is seriously fucked up.

[Krom]

"My Body, My Choice. Trump 2020".

Can we just turn this right back at them when it comes to woman's reproductive rights?

You know, here in Wisconsin the figures are staggering: as of Friday we only had around 4000 cases, but almost 29% of them had to be hospitalized. That means over 1 in 4 people who catch this thing are being admitted into the hospital. These shelter orders and social distancing guidelines are extremely important when you take those figures in to account. These protestors need to get their heads out of trumps ass and realize that if we did what they want they would have a 1 in 4 chance of drowning in their own mucus in a hospital parking lot and being buried in a mass grave because the medical system will completely collapse under the strain and be unable to save them.

[vision]

That means over 1 in 4 people [of those tested] are being admitted into the hospital.

Fixed for you. This disease is a nightmare because it's hard to get a proper view of how serious it is due to so many variables (age, obesity, initial viral load, access to care, etc...). You'll have a household where 3 of 4 need hospitalization and two die, and their near identical neighbors all have the virus asymptotically or have mild but no moderate cases. I'm guessing it will be about six months before we have a good idea of what we are dealing with. The data are still too new.

Related comic explainer of pandemic modeling.

[Tunnelcat]

That's what I thought when I saw that sign. News flash, having a child in your body is different from having a virus in your body. A virus can leave your body at will and infect someone else's body. That's where your right to freedom is null and void. This bug is just virulent enough that essentially people are carrying around a weapon of mass destruction that can be released everywhere. People that go around defying medical/governmental orders are no better than terrorists. Terrorists don't deserve freedom either. They deserve the punishment of the weapon they carry. So to all those stupid Trumptard "patriots" going around in protest showing off their guns touting their freedom to do as they please are nothing but a bunch of lawless terrorists. And carrying your guns will do nothing to stop an enemy so small you can't see it let alone shoot it. This is a war against a virus, not our own government morons, even though the head of that Federal government is more worried about his reelection chances than the health of the nation. Worse, he's directly inciting civil disobedience and disorder. THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNTIED STATES!!!! HIS VP IS ENABLING HIM ON NATIONAL TV!!! Now I have to arm myself in the face of this sad scenario! If these idiots succeed at getting things opened up, we're ALL going to have go through this bull★■◆● all over again which WILL extend the economic pain even longer. Thanks assholes.

[vision]

This copypasta has been going around and I feel the need to post it everywhere I can. It's the Trump COVID-19 response timeline. There is a version that has verified sources for every date, but I'm too lazy to format it for phpBB.

Jan 8 - First CDC warning on Novel Coronavirus (COVID-19)

Jan 9 - Trump campaign rally

Jan 14 - Trump campaign rally

Jan 16 - House sends impeachment articles to Senate

Jan 18 - Trump golfs

Jan 19 - Trump golfs

Jan 20 - first case of COVID-19 in the US, Washington State.

Jan 22 - “We have it totally under control. It’s one person coming in from China. It’s going to be just fine.”

Jan 28 - Trump campaign rally

Jan 30 - Trump campaign rally

Feb 1 - Trump golfs

Feb 2 - “We pretty much shut it down coming in from China."

Feb 5 - Senate votes to acquit. Then takes a five-day weekend.

Feb 10 - Trump campaign rally

Feb 12 - Dow Jones closes at an all time high of 29,551.42

Feb 15 - Trump golfs

Feb 19 - Trump campaign rally

Feb 20 - Trump campaign rally

Feb 21 - Trump campaign rally

Feb 24 - “The Coronavirus is very much under control in the USA… Stock Market starting to look very good to me!”

Feb 25 - “CDC and my Administration are doing a GREAT job of handling Coronavirus.”

Feb 25 - “I think that's a problem that’s going to go away… They have studied it. They know very much. In fact, we’re very close to a vaccine.”

Feb 26 - “The 15 (cases in the US) within a couple of days is going to be down to close to zero.”

Feb 26 - “We're going very substantially down, not up.” Also "This is a flu. This is like a flu"; "Now, you treat this like a flu"; "It's a little like the regular flu that we have flu shots for. And we'll essentially have a flu shot for this in a fairly quick manner."

Feb 27 - “One day it’s like a miracle, it will disappear.”

Feb 28 - “We're ordering a lot of supplies. We're ordering a lot of, uh, elements that frankly we wouldn't be ordering unless it was something like this. But we're ordering a lot of different elements of medical.”

Feb 28 - Trump campaign rally

Feb 29 - First COVID-19 death in US

Mar 2 - “You take a solid flu vaccine, you don't think that could have an impact, or much of an impact, on corona?”

Mar 2 - “A lot of things are happening, a lot of very exciting things are happening and they’re happening very rapidly.”

Mar 4 - “If we have thousands or hundreds of thousands of people that get better just by, you know, sitting around and even going to work — some of them go to work, but they get better.”

Mar 5 - “I NEVER said people that are feeling sick should go to work.”

Mar 5 - “The United States… has, as of now, only 129 cases… and 11 deaths. We are working very hard to keep these numbers as low as possible!”

Mar 6 - “I think we’re doing a really good job in this country at keeping it down… a tremendous job at keeping it down.”

Mar 6 - “Anybody right now, and yesterday, anybody that needs a test gets a test. They’re there. And the tests are beautiful…. the tests are all perfect like the letter was perfect. The transcription was perfect. Right? This was not as perfect as that but pretty good.”

Mar 6 - “I like this stuff. I really get it. People are surprised that I understand it… Every one of these doctors said, ‘How do you know so much about this?’ Maybe I have a natural ability. Maybe I should have done that instead of running for president.”

Mar 6 - “I don't need to have the numbers double because of one ship that wasn't our fault.”

Mar 7 - Trump golfs

Mar 8 - Trump golfs

Mar 8 - “We have a perfectly coordinated and fine tuned plan at the White House for our attack on CoronaVirus.”

Mar 9 - “This blindsided the world.”

Mar 13 - [Declared state of emergency]

Mar 14 - Young Asian-American family of 4 stabbed in TX Sam's Club by man who thinks they're responsible for COVID.

Mar 15 - 3,613 COVID-19 cases, 69 deaths

Mar 17 - “This is a pandemic,” Mr. Trump told reporters. “I felt it was a pandemic long before it was called a pandemic.”

April 15'th - 759,003 COVID-19 cases, 40,264 deaths

[Tunnelcat]

Good enough and wow. Trump blew it and he was the one bitching about Obama playing too much golf during the campaign. Plus, Pence went to Colorado today and got off the plane without wearing a mask. Talk about taking a bullet for your overlord.

What do you think about this vision? My brother in law is on the president's medical team and sent this to my sister.

https://californiaglobe.com/section-2/s ... s-claimed/

EDIT: Here's a Politifact version with added content on the Trump Coronavirus timeline, with more fact checking on other people as well as Trump.

https://www.politifact.com/article/2020 ... -pandemic/

[vision]

What do you think about this vision? My brother in law is on the president's medical team and sent this to my sister.

https://californiaglobe.com/section-2/s ... s-claimed/

I couldn't load that site, but I'm aware of the study. We have absolutely no idea how widespread or deadly SARS-CoV-2 is. No institution, no model, no expert can give us a clear picture because we're in the middle of the event. We can only guess a range, and it will be months before we can have more accurate predictions. Every model either under-fits or over-fits the data. This is the nature of pandemic modeling, as explained in the link I posted from 538. Here are some facts we do know:

1. This is not a civilization ending event. It's not the apocalypse so you can ignore all the doomsayers.
2. The disease is bad enough that shutting down the world's economy is necessary until we can manage the pandemic.
3. Managing SARS-CoV-2 is no different than managing any other pandemic: test, trace, quarantine, repeat. There is no other way.

It's good news if SARS-CoV-2 is more widespread and less deadly! However, even the math on the best case scenario shows this is still very dangerous. It also doesn't change the fact we can't effectively manage this until we can test, track, and quarantine. We are way, way behind on testing and might never catch up. The United States' economy probably won't recover as fast as a lot of other countries because our cases got out of control. We'll probably have to deal with many months of localized shutdowns and a lot of deaths through 2020 at least. Some revised models are predicting the US will peak at 60 - 68,000 deaths. I feel this is too low considering 10,000 people died over the last four days. The pandemic would have to slam on the brakes.

[Vander]

Here's a pretty in-depth timeline that goes back to January 2017:

https://www.justsecurity.org/69650/time ... -response/

[Tunnelcat]

Holy crap. There are more ways this bug can kill it's victims, blood clots. Lots of them and BIG ones too. Blood thinners can be a 2-edged sword in treatment, which can help or kill. And a young Broadway star had to have his leg amputated because of blood clots from Covid-19.

https://news.yahoo.com/doctor-treating- ... 31722.html

https://www.latimes.com/entertainment-a ... mplication

So conservative news personalities and other conservative outlets have apparently been touting a great cure pill called of just follow Sweden and we'll all be fine. You remember Sweden, that socialist nation that conservatives hate? So NOW that country's great? Must be the same entertainment for those conservative protestors too out there spreading it among themselves at their rallies. Not so fast bird brains and you're all going to be screwed in about 3 weeks....

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/20 ... save-face/

[vision]

So much for the low estimate of deaths in the United States. On day 37 we're over 50,000 dead and there is no decrease in speed. This country sucks.

[Tunnelcat]

Trump must want the death toll to go even higher. Good God, our president is now a snake oil huckster. Hopefully only his followers will take his advice of either cooking themselves with high intensity light or poisoning themselves by injecting disinfectants.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-heal ... SKCN2261N7

Then I Googled some more just to see how stupid these Trumptards are. By God, there IS a fringe group that actually advocates the idea of using Chlorine dioxide, or MMS. Maybe the stupid WILL cull themselves during this crisis.

https://www.businessinsider.com/mms-fan ... 020-4?op=1

[Tunnelcat]

This is the "expert" Trump got his bleach cure from, ignoring everything from medical science all because it doesn't please him. Of course, it's now just sarcasm he said to those "bad" reporters. Too bad. Can't take nonsense like that back, ever.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/worl ... 84011.html

“Trump has got the MMS and all the info!!! Things are happening folks! Lord help others to see the Truth!”

[Tunnelcat]

A simulator put out by MASS General for the Covid-19 spread in the U.S. You can watch the spread rates change depending on the various opening up strategies going on between the states. It's not pretty.

https://www.covid19sim.org/

[Tunnelcat]

What have we become as a nation when state legislators have to wear body armor while performing their jobs by trying to protect all of us from a pandemic? Democracy and the rule of law is now dead at the business end of guns held by an angry and misinformed minority. What a shame. They are NOT doing themselves any favors and are probably spreading this virus by acting like a bunch jackasses. It's guaranteed that they WILL unintentionally kill people and it won't be with their guns either.

https://reason.com/2020/05/01/criticize ... g-weapons/

[LightWolf]

Someone showed me this. What do y'all think?

https://community.oilprice.com/topic/14 ... n-history/

Edit: It looks like it was just reposting and bolding parts of this article:
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/20 ... n-history/

[Krom]

The modeling is how many people would have died if we didn't do anything, we did something: pretty much every state in the nation went into lock down and it worked. Fewer people died than the worst models projected, now the point is we should be able to begin to resume some operations because the testing capacity and contact tracing capacity are starting to come online that make it possible to re-open the less affected areas. As our capacity to rapidly track and quarantine the virus movement increases we will be able to open and do more stuff, but I'd say even two years from now we won't be fully recovered. Effective treatments would help a lot, and a vaccine is the only way to put it to rest for good. Treatments could appear at any time or never, but the widespread vaccination isn't happening this year and probably not next year either.

[vision]

Someone showed me this. What do y'all think?

It's garbage capitalist propaganda. The US' response to the pandemic is not politically motivated. You know how I know that? BECAUSE EVERY COUNTRY IN THE WORLD DID THE SAME THING. The only way you could believe this crap is if you are also the same kind of person who believes there is a small group of shadowy dictators who control the entire world from behind the scenes. In other words, an idiot.

[Vander]

This was published on the same day as that Opinion:

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/202 ... total.html

Total deaths in seven states that have been hard hit by the coronavirus pandemic are nearly 50 percent higher than normal for the five weeks from March 8 through April 11, according to new death statistics from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. That is 9,000 more deaths than were reported as of April 11 in official counts of deaths from the coronavirus.

The new data is partial and most likely undercounts the recent death toll significantly. But it still illustrates how the coronavirus is causing a surge in deaths in the places it has struck, probably killing more people than the reported statistics capture. These increases belie arguments that the virus is only killing people who would have died anyway from other causes. Instead, the virus has brought a pattern of deaths unlike anything seen in recent years.

[Tunnelcat]

Every protestor out there during those lock downs believes that trash vision. I even saw one protestor holding a sign here in Oregon that said "99% of people don't get sick from coronavirus". That statement is not even close to the truth and you know that they got that BS from right wing news or propaganda sites. And their fractured self-centered logic that only old, frail people get sick and die from this thing is far from the truth. Some kids and teenagers have now come down with a body wide inflammatory syndrome that attacks all the organs in their bodies, especially their hearts, after recovering from a seemingly benign bout of Covid-19. The new mystery illness, similar to Kawasaki Disease, may result from their young immune systems being too aggressive. Other cases of this same syndrome have also shown up other states like California and in the Northeast and it's been lethal to some of those young victims.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/05/nyre ... virus.html

These people want their freedom to go back to work? Fine. But I'd like to have the freedom to not be exposed to your possible spreading of this disease, AND DIE, because you're a self centered ★■◆●. I know a lot of local business employees are worried about getting sick from people like these if they're forced to go back to work and face them on the job. I've also recently noticed about 50% of people here in my county are slacking off on wearing masks or following personal distancing guidelines and as a result, the numbers of infected have started to climb again. So as soon as our gov. starts lifting the lock down, the numbers are going to suddenly climb statewide as well. Even the White House is having it's own little outbreak among the staff now, probably because no one was wearing masks. A lot of them are now though. I'd wager that Trump and Pence will never show up on TV wearing masks. Heaven forbid that his supporters see him or his veep follow their own damn guidelines.

Here's an interesting story from our local paper that compares people's behavior now to people's behavior during the 1918 Spanish Flu Pandemic. The main difference between now and then with getting people to comply with lock downs was that people were more willing to self-sacrifice for the good of the country, all to aid the war effort during WWI. Today, there doesn't seem to be a reason to self-sacrifice, even if it means saving the lives of our vulnerable older and younger populations.

https://www.gazettetimes.com/news/local ... b7372.html

It was the last Strawberry Festival for four years, as men went off to war and efforts went into "victory gardens" and rationing. It was a time, she said, of sacrifice.

“People did sacrifice,” Nichols said of 1918. “When it was the Spanish Flu and the government could say, ‘The Spanish Flu is hurting our war effort,’ it helped people sacrifice. But now, we don’t have that. Since 9/11 we have an anti-terror mindset. We haven’t been asked to collectively sacrifice for many generations.”

[Vander]

Whether these protestors truly believe it, or if they're just using it as an excuse to pursue their "normal" right wing intimidation/dominance political agitation doesn't really matter. What worries me is that they're first actors in this space, and what may happen if they're mixed with the social unrest that will likely arise due to the twin failings of a lack of a coherent national strategy that makes safely reopening take longer, and the lack of support to people in increasingly precarious financial positions.

Sheltering in place was never some ideological goal or a long term solution, it's always been a short term stop gap to buy the time necessary to set ourselves up for the longer term without overburdening healthcare systems. But we've been squandering the time we've bought ourselves in a lot of areas and at the national level. There appears to be a lot of people that are trying to run out the clock on all this to avoid the reorganizations necessary, and it's mostly people insulated from the burdens.

[Tunnelcat]

Reading the history of the 1918 Spanish Flu, the same groups and actors that protested and fought for the reopening of businesses back then, usually theaters, bars and billiard halls, are the very same ones now. Patriotic and usually conservative. Either they never learn from history or tend to ignore it altogether or they just don't care. To make matters worse, this bug is going to be around forever and until we get a vaccine, we're in a world of hurt.

What's sad and maddening is that Obama left all the necessary tools for Trump to fall back on IF a pandemic actually occurred during his presidency. However, Trump and his cabinet either cut funding or eliminated altogether everything Obama had set up and all Mitch McConnell and Trump can do is blame Obama for leaving them in the lurch. WTF you pricks! Obama wasn't even president in 2017. Whatever happened to the Party that touted taking personal responsibility? It's certainly gone now.

https://news.yahoo.com/coronavirus-trum ... 17286.html

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/03/2 ... cil-149285

And just WOW, Covid-19 is only the seventh coronavirus in history known to infect humans. Previously there were six and this new monster is nastier. It can infect other organs in the body besides the lungs.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2 ... rc404=true

[Tunnelcat]

They should rename this virus Andromeda since it seems to love to clot the blood of it's most impacted victims.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2 ... -findings/

[Ferno]

Someone showed me this. What do y'all think?

https://community.oilprice.com/topic/14 ... n-history/

Edit: It looks like it was just reposting and bolding parts of this article:
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/20 ... n-history/

Holy ★■◆●.

That guy is completely off his rocker. That is ipso facto a conspiracy theory.

[Tunnelcat]

Have hope all ye Trump haters that want a little Schadenfreude. Second time around might be the charm. After getting treated and "cured" from his first Covid infection, he's become even more of an insufferable prick and is now doing our country an even greater disservice acting like all is well, the pandemic is going away, masks are a waste and he is now immune. Not so fast you Orange POS. Covid-19 mutates. Since he's the one who's out there holding YUGE maskless boner rallies every day until the election, he's the one most likely to get it AGAIN. Oh, and it looks like it's nastier the second you catch it too.

https://news.yahoo.com/25-old-nevada-ma ... 59041.html

[Tunnelcat]

Welp, my sister caught Covid. She's going through all the nasty symptoms, headache, fever, fatigue, loss of smell and taste, fluid in the lungs, etc. It's nasty, but she's not in the hospital yet. She's now worried about her husband possibly getting it and dying, who's older with pre-existing conditions. She's whining about where she probably caught it, from a school child client. She's a pediatric disabled children physical therapist, so she works for a school district in SoCal. She had to go back to face to face meetings with her clientele, with a mask and PPE of course. One child and his parents were anti-maskers (maskholes) and sent their kid off to school and that's who she thinks she caught it from since the kid was lethargic and sickly on the day of the meeting. She griped that she caught it despite wearing a mask all the time in public and work. I explained to her that masks don't protect YOU, they keep YOU from spreading the virus to others, so EVERYONE has to wear one for it to mitigate the spread of the virus. Trump wants the schools open. Well, that's all well and good if you can keep masks on everyone for masking to work, even the kids, which is downright impossible.

[Krom]

Easier to get the kids to wear a mask than it is the adults really. Hope your sister recovers and her husband doesn't become a statistic.

[Jeff250]

I'm very sorry to hear that Tunnelcat, and I wish your sister a speedy and full recovery.

[Tunnelcat]

This virus is weird. My sister has been hit hard for a week so far. She's now developing a sinus infection and worries it might migrate into the lungs, so she's got to go on antibiotics (Her voice sounds watery on the phone until she talks for awhile). Mostly she's had headaches, a lot of lethargy and respiratory issues, along with the total loss of her sense of smell (she's happy she can't smell her dog's farts right now). The fever lasted 4 days on and off as it ramped down from it's high of 102. So after a week of suffering, this bug still hasn't quite let her go, but at least she hasn't had to be hospitalized. As for her husband, he got it about 8 days after she tested positive and all he got was a slight fever and a runny nose for a day. What sealed her suspicion that he was infected was that HE lost his sense of smell too, which is slowly returning now. He's going to get an antibody test to confirm, but he got off easy. Why this thing hits some really hard and eventually kills them or others who only get a week or 2 of nasty symptoms and recover and still others who get it, don't really recover and then become long haulers with a variety of nasty and unrelated symptoms that are severe and life changing is baffling. Of course we have the large majority who never have any symptoms, some of which refuse to wear a mask and end up spreading this thing to those who DO get sick or die. She said she hopes she never gets this thing ever again it was so nasty. It's just plain crazy. It's almost like Russian Roulette with a revolver where you never know if you're going to be the one that gets that loaded chamber after the spin. One of these days, I hope science figures it out.

[Krom]

Good to hear she is on the mend from the sounds of it at least.

Its going to be a difficult holiday season since the pandemic is basically running totally out of control right now. England is already going to do another month long lockdown, the US probably should have already done it too but it may be too late now and we still lack the leadership to do it anyway. Republicans are sticking hard to their only problem solving method which is: "get government out of the way, deregulate and let the free market fix it" (in other words: "do nothing and hope it goes away").

[Tunnelcat]

She's getting hit hard with secondary infections and is worse off now. Even her husband is regressing. She was the one who was healthy without any pre-existing conditions too. There's a distinct possibility that she may die from this thing she's now getting so sick. Even if she survives, it could be three more weeks of misery. I'd like to strangle every damn Trump maskhole who refuses to wear a mask because they claim it interferes with their "freedoms". Well you dumb fucks, wearing a mask protects others from YOU, not the other way around. We'd all have to wear full PPE for that to work. So what you're doing by deliberately not wearing a mask in pubic and having the audacity to publicly protest about some "fake tyranny" is only spreading a deadly virus that's interfering with other people's FREEDOM TO LIVE. Your public maskless protests about freedom is an insult to life and liberty which will certainly be someone else's grave. You're nothing but terrorists. All freedoms have give and takes and consequences. There is no true freedom, only compromise, because one person's freedom can be another person's prison. It's no skin off your backs to wear a mask while in public just to protect someone else from possible sickness or death.

Rounding the corner and it will be gone after the election Trump says. You idiots want to block hospitals with your stupid protests? You want to believe that a non-medical degree holding egomaniac called Trump that the docs are wrong or lying, that all those unnecessary deaths are inflated just for money and that Covid is not real? Go ★■◆● yourselves you stupid idiots.