Impressions on Descent: Insane, cold start, no-death, 100%

[AlexanderBorisov]

Yes those smart mines strike almost like a mega missile if all the blobs hit! And I myself used the 30 smart mine tactics against AF L7 boss, which has 4600 HP - compared to 5500 for CS L24 - and it is killed exactly by 30 smart mines. The problem with smart mine tactics is that anything homing fired by the boss blows it up, and you need some luck to avoid it. Also I found that very fast clicking could allow you to drop like 15 mines without moving. Unfortunately this will not work on cold start, don't think there are many smart mines in the level.

[Calmarius]

Xfing, about the music in D2, I am not a fan of 4 repeating tracks, too. But Calmarius said somewhere that he plays without music and then just adds the music track he likes in video editor. ...

Egosurfing brought me here. My first runs were played in the original DOS game in DosBox. It could record the video in a weird format with sounds and the MIDI output in a separated mid file. I needed to convert that midi file to wav, then dub it into the video. This means what you hear in the video is what actually played while I recorded them. Where you hear a different music, it's because I actually replaced the music in the HOG.

Later when The Enemy Within mission forced me to switch to D2x-rebirth I no longer need to do so. Instead I need to pack .ogg files and descent.sng into a .dxa file (which is a zip with renamed file extension).

[Calmarius]

I had a realization though - the midi music in D1 contributed greatly to the identity and atmosphere of each level, and only having the 4 midi tracks in D2 is hugely detrimental. That's why I liked Calmarius' runs, where he somehow got the D1 midis to play in D2 levels. I unfortunately don't know how to do that, nor do I have access to the D2 CD music, which could also help the experience greatly. Any advice on how to achieve either of these two goals would be appreciated.

You need an editor that can edit the .hog files. You need to copy the .mid and .hmp files from the descent.hog from d1 and list their names in descent.sng and it works out of the box.

[Calmarius]

What I do consider cheating though, is using markers to keep doors open. This is clearly a side effect, since I'm pretty convinced markers are supposed to be immaterial. If you really want to keep doors open, use proximity bombs. They last a lot longer in D2 then they did in D1, so it'll definitely be long enought to get the job done, and your cheap strategy will cost you resources, unlike when if you were using markers

Or you can drop your stuff (shift+f6) to achieve the same effect. Then pick it up later. No resources spent.

[Xfing]

Yeah, but dropping weapons has forward momentum, and it might be a bit hard to ensure the weapon stays precisely inside the open door.

[LightWolf]

I had a realization though - the midi music in D1 contributed greatly to the identity and atmosphere of each level, and only having the 4 midi tracks in D2 is hugely detrimental. That's why I liked Calmarius' runs, where he somehow got the D1 midis to play in D2 levels. I unfortunately don't know how to do that, nor do I have access to the D2 CD music, which could also help the experience greatly. Any advice on how to achieve either of these two goals would be appreciated.

You need an editor that can edit the .hog files. You need to copy the .mid and .hmp files from the descent.hog from d1 and list their names in descent.sng and it works out of the box.

Cal likely used Rebirth's Jukebox. I've seen it in his Vertigo run, and I know Rebirth is the only retro-style engine that plays D1 exit cutscenes in D2 (as happened in his D1 Level 7 D2 Style.

My only complaint is that the default level 2 track is not too fitting for a final level IMO.

[Alter-Fox]

You can get the D2 CD music with A Future Pilot's rebirth installer. The MAC soundtrack is what I recommend because it has a few extra level songs, and even though it still uses shortened mixes some of the songs like Cold Reality Techno Industry kinda feel more complete than they do on the original D2 CD.

[Xfing]

There's been quite a long break due to some distractions (Overload for example), started taking shots at level 20 again. It's real tough, but I expect that it can be learned (sans the boss battle, maybe). I also don't know if the entire boss arena can be cleared, considering the matcens spawning those little pesky small robots. I'll have to look into that :<

[Xfing]

Lol! Beat the level, but then I forgot I hadn't taken care of the two cloaked smelters near the exit. Got nervous, trying to Gauss the switch to free the shakers, then I killed myself by splash damage! But yeah, I think I know what this level is about by now. I expect full success within a few tries

EDIT: Awwwright, here it is!

Level 20: The boss level of Baloris Prime feels super hard at first, but it's very easy to learn. The traps are not too bad, especially due to the fact that the robots in the level aren't very tough. I also think this level throws every single type of enemy from Baloris at you, though there's only a single PIG in the boss room. Still - this robot cast isn't particularly frightening, except maybe for the minibosses, who are easy enough to deal with in this level with no issues. The hardest parts to get down are the initial clear of the perimeter encircling the central chamber, and the central chamber itself. The yellow key area is entirely skippable, though it isn't too hard either, and a good place to stock up on shields and gauss ammo. The weapon itself is what makes this level a cinch, and though it's useless against the boss, it's great for clearing out his chamber of those pesky little red hornets. The boss itself - a direct dogfight with this guy will not go well for you, as there are no invulnerabilities at all in the level to protect you - so subterfuge is the way to go. I used the tactic suggested by Calmarius whereby you fire Phoenix at an angle through the upper entrance of his arena, and at that point the only thing you need for him to die is patience. I'll give credit to the boss itself though, as when faced openly it's probably the hardest one to take down after the Ice Boss. As for clearing the boss arena of the small fry - the level provides tons of cloaks for you to use, which I demonstrate very clearly in the demo.

As for the design and texturing - it's standard fare for Baloris Prime, leaning more on the red side than the sandy side this time - pretty generic unfortunately, but it does its job. The geometry is elegant and the layout of the station quite interesting. This is one of those levels that in my opinion demonstrate the biggest difference between D1 and D2 - D2 is much better at making the mines seem alive and busy - due to all the disappearing walls, switches and enemies in Snipe mode. But overall it's a fun level, and quite easy too when you learn it.

Overall Baloris Prime difficulty:

18 > 20 > 19 > 17

This system was not as tough as Limefrost, and definitely not as tough as Brimspark. Still, it was not a walk in the park like Zeta Aquilae comparatively. Reasonably easy, but on Insane it's still quite challenging, especially level 18. Judging this system by how easy it is on Ace and below can lead to a nasty surprise when you attempt it on Insane - the difficulty really is easy to underestimate.

DEMO: https://www.sendspace.com/file/vh2nc7

[AlexanderBorisov]

Recently replayed level 18 Insane cold-start 100% (to take a small break from Plutonian Shores playthrough)

it does not look that bad, with the strategy shown in the vid. I get the Phoenix and super laser in first 20 secs and then the Gauss, wipe out the thief bot quickly with it, then the level becomes quite easy, as there are no dangerous bots there, yellow key has a secret shortcut, level gives you tons of cloaks + farmable matcens + 2 shakers + tons of guided missiles. And there are no dangerous robots. However level gets a bit dragged as you need to return to the energy center often, and there are a lot of areas to clear in order to score 100% run. Probably I could benefit more from using Omega Cannon instead of Phoenix, also I sucked with the trap near the shaker and blue key, and activating the last matcens was just a waste of time.

[Xfing]

Tried the Calmarius route for level 21 but it's going even worse for me than my own previous solution. Guess I'll stick to that and keep trying.

Spiders oughta be fun in D1,5 when we bring the concussion missile damage back to 40 or whatever it was in D1, lol

[AlexanderBorisov]

Tried the Calmarius route for level 21 but it's going even worse for me than my own previous solution. Guess I'll stick to that and keep trying.

Spiders oughta be fun in D1,5 when we bring the concussion missile damage back to 40 or whatever it was in D1, lol

Strange,I used his route and it worked well, was able to beat it the same day I started to practice... In fact after you get the Vulcan, the rest is quite learnable and predictable. But it is always a good thing to find another way to beat the level, like you did in some others (L12 for example). BTW I recorded Perdition (L27) in PS and still think that CS level 21 is harder than Perdition. But at least it is much shorter. Only level in PS where I had problems was, surprisingly, 21 (Fear Factory). But I will further elaborate on this in PS thread after I will beat the remaining 3 levels on Insane cold start.

Yes, spiders with increased missile damage... sounds nasty. Anyway there is no big difference if you catch 6 missiles with 30 or 45 damage.

[Xfing]

The biggest problem in D2 is the shot leading anyway. Without it, missile launching robots are harmless in open spaces, they're only a problem in tight corridors.

I'll try watching Calmarius' video again and particularly see what he does about the boarshead emerging once you take the tunnel above the starting chamber. even if I get past everything before, that always gets me. But I can picture myself being able to do that level with enough practice, only it's going to take several hundred tries just like it did Calmarius.

[AlexanderBorisov]

You just quickly run past this boarshead (possibly, trichord) to the energy center. I also tried different way, but fighting spider, 2 boarsheads and diamond claws in the other room above with red lasers did not work well - given you have no space to avoid enemy fire. Even if you win (which happens more rarely than successful luring&sniping them from the (relatively) safe spot - you run out of energy... Probably Parallax got too far with this level by not giving the player Vulcan or at least Plasma cannon at the start. And few more homing missiles. Or they did not thought about the cold start in this particular level at all.

[Xfing]

I can handle the enemies in the initial rooms - more or less. With like a 35% success rate and improving. I was talking about the one that emerges from those 4 hidden compartments when you take the upper tunnel. I use proximity bombs there, but 2 are not enough t take down a boarshead, even if they both connect properly. I'll just have to study the run better and see what Calmarius does here.

[AlexanderBorisov]

Use smart mines, there is a pack in the room with 2 Lou guards, there is a 4 guided missile pack there, too, and probably some other secret (which I ignored)

[Xfing]

Use smart mines, there is a pack in the room with 2 Lou guards, there is a 4 guided missile pack there, too, and probably some other secret (which I ignored)

Well, first I'd have to get it open, I forget where the panel is for removing the grate to that chamber.

[Alter-Fox]

You mean the secret with the earthshaker? It's open to start with.
It'll just close if you get too close to it and then back away.

[Xfing]

No, I mean the grated off room with the 2 Lous and some spawn where the secret teleporter is.

[Alter-Fox]

Oooooh. That one opens from a switch by the blue key. There's an invuln in there too.
There might be a way to hit it through a grate from another area, since it's on a wall and not the floor.

[Xfing]

Ok, I'll keep trying.

BTW, started playing D1 a little bit - playing only D2 recently has rendered me virtually helpless against Super Hulks in D1. Those missiles just wreck me every time. So yeah, after all it might have been a good idea to nerf the Lou Guards for D2 with the homing missile acquisition cone.

[AlexanderBorisov]

True, the grated room with stuff and secret teleporter is opened by the switch near the blue key, possible to hit through the grate near the 1-st shaker secret. LOL, I even forgot there is a secret teleporter and invulnerability, which can make the level a bit easier!

About the Super Hulks, never dodged their missiles in D1 when playing it (in all levels in main campaign you can corner snipe or use powerups/missiles to kill them) , and learned to do it only much later for fun. You really need perfect timing and trichording skills, but still not possible to dodge EVERY time like in D2. IMO introducing D1 homers into D1.5 is not worth it, even D2 missile can turn on a dime, missile physics is definitely broken, it does not turn at some (capped) angular velocity towards you, but bisects the angle to the target each frame, as you remember! Faster missiles (like homing flash) become very dangerous even in D2. If you want to make it harder changing the speed or damage is a better way. But at least, you can outrun D1 missile in open space with trichording, this is not very hard, missile times out after 20 secs IIRC.

[Xfing]

True, the grated room with stuff and secret teleporter is opened by the switch near the blue key, possible to hit through the grate near the 1-st shaker secret. LOL, I even forgot there is a secret teleporter and invulnerability, which can make the level a bit easier!

About the Super Hulks, never dodged their missiles in D1 when playing it (in all levels in main campaign you can corner snipe or use powerups/missiles to kill them) , and learned to do it only much later for fun. You really need perfect timing and trichording skills, but still not possible to dodge EVERY time like in D2. IMO introducing D1 homers into D1.5 is not worth it, even D2 missile can turn on a dime, missile physics is definitely broken, it does not turn at some (capped) angular velocity towards you, but bisects the angle to the target each frame, as you remember! Faster missiles (like homing flash) become very dangerous even in D2. If you want to make it harder changing the speed or damage is a better way. But at least, you can outrun D1 missile in open space with trichording, this is not very hard, missile times out after 20 secs IIRC.

The missile damage for both concs and homers is brought in line with what it was in D1, but the acquisition cone will not be reverted back to 40 degrees from 20. There is simply no statistic available in HAXMED32 that would let you do that anyway

And that's probably for the better, that way you'll at least have a fighting chance. Super Hulks were decidedly OP as hell in D1, probably the single hardest robot all things considered. In tight quarters open combat you're basically doomed with no powerups. That's cool in its own right, adding greatly to D1's puzzle-like aspects (you NEED a power-up to get past certain sections), but for organic gameplay it's probably better to have these robots manageable.

[Xfing]

True, the grated room with stuff and secret teleporter is opened by the switch near the blue key, possible to hit through the grate near the 1-st shaker secret. LOL, I even forgot there is a secret teleporter and invulnerability, which can make the level a bit easier!

About the Super Hulks, never dodged their missiles in D1 when playing it (in all levels in main campaign you can corner snipe or use powerups/missiles to kill them) , and learned to do it only much later for fun. You really need perfect timing and trichording skills, but still not possible to dodge EVERY time like in D2. IMO introducing D1 homers into D1.5 is not worth it, even D2 missile can turn on a dime, missile physics is definitely broken, it does not turn at some (capped) angular velocity towards you, but bisects the angle to the target each frame, as you remember! Faster missiles (like homing flash) become very dangerous even in D2. If you want to make it harder changing the speed or damage is a better way. But at least, you can outrun D1 missile in open space with trichording, this is not very hard, missile times out after 20 secs IIRC.

The missile damage for both concs and homers is brought in line with what it was in D1, but the acquisition cone will not be reverted back to 40 degrees from 20. There is simply no statistic available in HAXMED32 that would let you do that anyway

And that's probably for the better, that way you'll at least have a fighting chance. Super Hulks were decidedly OP as hell in D1, probably the single hardest robot all things considered. In tight quarters open combat you're basically doomed with no powerups. That's cool in its own right, adding greatly to D1's puzzle-like aspects (you NEED a power-up to get past certain sections), but for organic gameplay it's probably better to have these robots manageable.

[Xfing]

Ok, time for a little revival of this thread. After countless attempts, I was finally able to clear out the next level.

Level 21: Hardest level so far for sure, and its reputation is fully deserved. Luck is required to take out the initial two roaming Spiders and two Boarsheads and survive with a decent amount of shields, or at all. Another problem are the two Lou Guards near the secret exit, these are rather tough to take care of. But some areas of the level are surprisingly easy to clear out reliably, without putting yourself under threat (for example using the one Shaker the level gives you to clear out the two Lous guarding the red door/blue key from the grate below). The level is full of tight quarters, so even Diamond Claws can pose real danger. Bump into a wall by mistake, you're dead. The only available weaponry are quad lasers and Vulcan, though fortunately there is much more variety on the secondary end. So yeah, some parts of the level can be done reliably, while others require more luck - even the very beginning can go terribly sour if you fail to clear out one of the four snipe mode Hornets, or the Spider in the pit below spawns too many, costing you too much time to get rid of that the other robots already start roaming. But otherwise you're able to get reliable results thanks to Smarts and Shakers on some enemies. The Guideds you get in this level also are invaluable in terms of usefulness, absolutely trivializing the reactor area. As for the design and feel of this level - one of the biggest reasons it's so hard is its openness and how big areas of the level are not separated even by a single door. Finally the roaming I've been waiting for. Otherwise there's a lot of grates (even the doors in the level are all grates), adding to the feeling that you're never safe. I also enjoy the pentagonal theme this level has, adding to its bizarre alien-like theme. Overall at the moment I can't tell whether it took me more attempts than D1 level 11/19/D2 level 10 or a comparable number, since I've done those really long ago. But yeah, definitely a monstrous level - though by all means beatable without dying.

DEMO: https://www.sendspace.com/file/dv2ygz

[Marvin]

Props. I have no experience with it, so I can judge the difficulty just by watching the demo, but it looks scary.

[Xfing]

Well it's quite hard alright. Doesn't feel that way on the successful run for sure, but yeah. Cool thing that it's so easy to practice Descent 2. I have never made such improvements practicing online games for example, lol

[Xfing]

Just made it to the reactor chamber of level 22. Yellow door area went on the first try, but I got overwhelmed by all the small spiders and got caught off guard about the door not being openable from the inside. Overall I'd say the beginning and the blue area are the hardest in this level, but I'll keep trying. The level definitely doesn't forgive mistakes (or even bad luck), but I don't think I've come even remotely to the same number of tries as level 21 here so far.

[Xfing]

Level 22: Aaaaand beat it! So yeah, this level is fun in the sense that its tight corridors really do remind of First Strike, as does its Lou Guard spam. There are quite a few obstacles to beating this level, one being the relatively open layout with few doors, which encourages dangerous mechs such as Spiders and Lous to roam. Upon entering the blue door you have about a 60% chance a Spider will greet you right away, and due to its presumed Snipe mode and little room to dodge, this fight is tricky. Otherwise, the initial three Boarsheads that you need to clear might be an issue if not all 4 of your Guideds hit their mark (and it's possible due to the minelaying Omega Guppies who can intercept your missiles). Other than that, there are rather reliable ways to tackle some traps and encounters. So far, this is THE level that will make you hate Spawn the most, as it uses them to their fullest - placed individually in large numbers, they can whittle down your HP real fast. Homing Missiles are lifesavers here, though Mercuries can also come in very handy. As for the layout itself - like I said, it does remind me of D1 somewhat, with its rather primitive geometry, which nonetheless works really well. The contrast between the large, open areas with the Lous and the claustrophobic rest of the level is also quite nice, basic as that geometry may be. Overall it was a really fun level, despite how much can go wrong for you in it.

DEMO: https://www.sendspace.com/file/vmi64s

[Xfing]

Level 23: Not too long has passed, and I was already able to beat the next level? I Wish I Had More Lights? More like "I couldn't care less about lights", since this level gives you Gauss right off the bat (and another one not too long afterwards, should you miss it), and more Vulcan Ammo than you can ever spend. If you had an Ammo Rack (which this level does not give), you'd very likely be able to get all the way up to 40,000 rounds. Anyway, the enemies this level contains are the usual Puuma Sphere roster, with tons of Boarsheads, Lous, Spiders and Spawn, but unlike the previous levels, this one has ample room to dodge pretty much anything. The positioning of enemies is never particularly troublesome, and there are no situations that have you rely on luck. There are some one-chance puzzles that can be missed, but it's nothing too troublesome. The reactor puzzle brings back fond memories of D1 level 21, but you get an invlunerability here, so it really is nothing special. I am now in position to say that Descent 1's reactor defenses in the later (well, not only) levels were much more troublesome than anything Descent 2 ever threw at us.

As for the geometry - this level once again brings the bizarre, penta- and hexagonal alien geometry that we got a good taste of in level 21. It does a good job of conveying the bizarre architecture of the insectoid aliens, especially with the open area around the blue key. It's otherwise a very small level, and definitely doesn't make the same threatening impression as D1's penultimate level did. Not even close.

DEMO: https://www.sendspace.com/file/2f7x2v
You can't see the score because my player file is apparently bugged and doesn't record progress, so I had to warp to this level via cheat. Otherwise it's a fully legit run with no cheats whatsoever.

[Xfing]

Okaay, been taking shots at the final level. I can tell you with absolute certainty now that the final boss can be beaten without accessing the secret level. 5 shakers and 2 megas up the ass appears to be all he needs to go meet Jesus. I've been practicing sections of this level separately and it's not that easy to be sure, but to beat the boss you're good with only the stuff you find in his chamber (except for the 5th Shaker, which is found outside). I entered his room with 36 health too. Of course luck is needed to have a combo of cloaks and invulnerabilities for long enough (uniquely, having both at the same time is necessary to have a shot at this boss), so shooting the guy with lasers is a good idea, as that'll make him spawn robots, one of which being the cloaked lifter, giving you more cloaks. You will have a limited number of invulnerabilities though, so being efficient at firing off your Shakers is key. I will of course be supplying a demo once I beat the entire level. 100%ing it is a bit tough due to all those damn guppies flying around, but it should be possible. I'll keep trying. Exciting I'm so close to actually beating every level of Descent 2 on Insane from cold start, wouldn't have thought it possible not too long ago.

[Alter-Fox]

Then on to Vertigo, the real test XD
I mean honestly I wouldn't know, I've played D1 and D2 continuous on insane but I don't think I've tried more than Vertigo's first few levels that way. And that's not even the same thing you're doing.

[Xfing]

Then on to Vertigo, the real test XD
I mean honestly I wouldn't know, I've played D1 and D2 continuous on insane but I don't think I've tried more than Vertigo's first few levels that way. And that's not even the same thing you're doing.

Well, according to some opinions I've read around here, Vertigo is not harder than Counterstrike on average, so we'll see. It's definitely darker and has a different atmosphere altogether, mostly due to sparse lighting and Dan Wentz's boner for the black obsidian texture... Speaking of which - been taking cracks at Maximum as well, got demos of up to level 8 if I'm not mistaken. Definitely not missing that mission either, since it is for all intents and purposes official. Might actually try it before Vertigo even, since I'm already one third in.

[Xfing]

Beat the guy on a practice run from a save right before the red door again. Unfortunately haven't got a demo and it doesn't count as a win, since the level wasn't done in one go - but it proves that this guy can indeed be beaten.

It took 5 shakers in the rear, about 13 guideds fired from concealment (not sure which ones were well-aimed), 1 packet of smart missile children in the rear and some Gauss fire. Funny enough, I still had at least 1 invulnerability to spare - cloaks were in much shorter supply though, so the last damage was inflicted without one. I'm going to do a few more practice runs until I can replicate this, and then try the entire level and record a demo of it. Would be pretty cool to finally beat the entirety of D2 and have a set of demos to prove it!

[Xfing]

Level 24: I finally did it! Got frustrated after many attempts on the boss, so I took a few weeks (or months, as it seems) of break, and then it just happened. Five shakers up the arse, then three megas and it happened to be enough. The level itself is not much to write home about - it's actually quite short and simple, though note should be taken that some walls tend to close, cutting you off from the initial horseshoe of the level after you pass some corridors (meaning you can only get back there through the boss arena). Other than that the level really isn't that hard, I'd say the second easiest in the Omega System after level 23. There are ample power-ups to help you through the harder areas - like the invulnerability you can easily extract from a Lou to help you get the Gauss, or the cloak and smarts that make getting the blue key a cinch. Getting the yellow and red keys is straightforward as well. The boss arena itself feels practically like another half of the level, so much happens there - it's definitely the hardest boss to beat (even though I only beat the Baloris boss by lurking behind a corner, rather than in an open fight), and the fight is highly luck-based and requires good positioning, precision and skill. If you load up on Shakers in the secret level it becomes dramatically easier to the point of being trivial, but it's what you do after you run out of the 5 provided in the level alone that constitutes this fight's difficulty. You've got a limited number of cloaks (3 inside the arena, half or so duration of a 4th if you grab one from outside the boss arena) and a matching number of invulnerabilities, and uniquely to this boss - you need both to go toe to toe with him. Without a cloak you can't get behind him to get a shot off (possible only for a small while with the Afterburner, but nothing reliable), and without an invulnerability you can't attack him or take any of his missiles (which can't be dodged). So the plan is - either dash for the first cloak right away (risky), or safeguard yourself by grabbing the one in the secret tunnel outside, and then speed to the red door. Use the first one or two cloaks to unravel all the puzzles and gain access to the big secret cache that has 2 megas, 2 shakers, 2 smarts and lots of ammo and invulnerabilities. While invulnerable, you need to unload all 5 shakers that you should now have before you run out of cloaks - next it's best to back out of the boss arena altogether and fire at the boss as long as he spawns a cloaked Diamond Claw, so you can get another cloak. Then pick up another invulnerability and fire off the 3 megas you have into his back. In the demo I have this proved to be enough, but on many tries he'd still be kicking even after that. You can then use Guideds to finish him off (managed to get the kill with these once, actually.). If that fails, there are still Smarts, but your supply of invulnerabilities is limited, even if you manage to get more cloaks. You can recharge on smarts from the spiders that the boss spawns so you should theoretically be able to continue the fight indefinitely, but in practice you're in deep ★■◆● once you run out of invulnerabilities, so it's in your best interests to get things done quickly and avoid a protracted fight. I managed a surprising success rate of say 30-40% with this strategy, while previously (without using Guideds) I think I managed to kill him only once out of literally dozens of tries. So there's that.

As far as the architecture & texturing goes, this is textbook Omega System fare. The themed layout is a nice novelty, it being an asteroid-sized spaceship and all, the level is fun to play as well, though I'm not sure it feels as impactful as First Strike's final level. The feeling of finality should be magnified by the fact that it's a moving asteroid and all that, but I dunno - the boss itself didn't feel half as visually or sonically intimidating as D1's, though he was admittedly harder to beat (though without invulnerabilities I think neither could be realistically beat without dying).

DEMO: https://www.sendspace.com/file/x9yf6a

Overall, in terms of difficulty:

21 >> 22 >>> 24 >>> 23.

Not even sure Puuma Sphere was the hardest system as of right now. Sure, level 21 is rather monstrous and the final one is super tricky as well, I also recall struggling like a mofo on level 10 for instance. 12 wasn't among the easiest ones either. But overall I'd definitely say it's one of the two hardest systems, easily. It gave me pause for a really long time, and there was a time where I was not even sure level 21 could be beat at all. But turns out everything can be done with a bit of practice, a break to avoid frustration and get a fresh perspective, and some luck.

So yeah, I beat Descent 2 without loading up on any secret level and without using any markers to help keep any doors open (got all the secrets without it!) My overall impressions compared to D1 would be hard to give, considering the amount of time and considerable pauses between levels that I had to take. Still, there are some things I can definitely say:

- D1 is harder when you have to deal with missile-launching robots (particularly in tight corners), since those have much higher damage and a higher acquisition cone for homing missiles. Most of D1's difficulty stemmed from missile-based robots and Class 1 Drillers. Descent 2 feels like a very different game, because its difficulties come from different things.

- D2 is harder when fighting robots in open spaces - the shot-leading AI is almost unfairly hard (no wonder they didn't go all the way through with it in Overload), and facing for instance a Boarshead in an open area with just basic lasers pretty much guarantees death, as they'll be able to predict where to fire very well. In D1 you could take care of everything with simple circle-strafing, in D2 very advanced movement patterns need to be drilled into your repertoire, and in some cases even those will do you no good (like the Boarshead).

- D2's enemies are more varied and devious and threaten you in more ways than those in D1 - this is particularly exempliefied with the addition of Flash Missiles that can ★■◆● up your ★■◆● in more subtle ways than just damage. Also, minelayers have been amped up to 11 compared to D1's offerings, with smart mines deserving a special mention. Kamikaze bots and fast, light vulcan-shooting ITDs rounding out the repertoire. So yeah, Descent 2 definitely tests you in more ways than D1 does.

- D1 is more puzzle-like. You're often pitted against seemingly impossible odds (several Super Hulks at a time, or even single roaming ones that can kill you in a second), but you're also always given cloaks/invulnerabilities to handle these threats, the main difficulty lies in knowing beforehand where they are. In D2 such situations are rarer (though still existent, such as in the final level), and you're usually left to rely on your weapons and skill. The border does get blurry though.

- D2 obviously has twice as much weaponry, but that doesn't mean it's actually better balanced. Some very questionable nerfs to perfectly fine weapons were done, such as the Spreadfire (though the rationale to bring it in line with Helix can at least be understandable), and most importantly - Fusion. The entire incentive of using Fusion was completely killed in D2, so it's impossible to say how it would have altered the experience had it retained its D1 power (guess we'd have to check, eh?). Some other weaponry such as Phoenix is of very limited, situational-at-best utility due to drawbacks, and the Gauss is so good there is hardly any incentive to use anything else once you have it, since it's even good with ammo economy as well. Overall though, especially with a few small adjustments, D2's additions are very welcome.

- D1's robots are more memorable, distinct and iconic than D2's, both visually and sonically. D2's are either more derivative, or uninteresting sonically - seriously, their sounds all sound sameish - low-key and non-threatening. Of course the robots with new weapons/functions such as the E-bandit, that round out D1's previous roster, are great. But robots interchangeable with D1's such as the PEST and the PIG fail to impress in general.

- D2's levels feel more eventful and alive due to the Guide Bot, the Thief Bot and the addition of switches, disappearing walls and richer ambient sounds (for lava and water).

- In terms of design, of course D2 is more advanced and D1 is cruder, but D2 does manage to look more retro than D1 did in places, mostly due to cartoonish textures prevalent in themes such as Limefrost, Baloris and Puuma. Geometrically though, the levels do have more going on for them, definitely. Aesthetics do not automatically mean that gameplay is better though, or you could rather say that D1's comparatively crude layout is not to the detriment of gameplay. D1's levels were not as different from each other as D2's, and there definitely was even more potential in the D1 texture banks to make things even more interesting, but D2 suffers from theme fatigue, due to the levels being played in sequences, which in fact makes them feel even more sameish.

- Differences in atmosphere. This one is hard to put to words, as it's subjective as well. To me D1 feels more matter-of-fact, early-mornin kinda (especially the first levels), later it feels appropriately hostile, intense, badass. Somewhat upbeat in a jaded way too. D2 feels grander in scope, more sci-fi-ish, a bit more somber at times, more retro and cartoony at other times - in fact kind of detached from D1's feel most of the time, which is why I personally grasp at any moment that could remind me of D1, since I have a bias for D1's atmosphere due to many more years of experience with it. The most treasured feelings invoked by D1 for me are the Lunar and Mercury levels, as well as the metallic, industrial feel of level 26.

THIS CONCLUDES MY D2 IMPRESSIONS

Next stop, Lil' Wentz and Big Wentz, meaning Maximum and Vertigo

[Marvin]

Congratulations for succesfully cold start all D1 and D2 levels with ins-max criteria!
Maybe you can also try ins-max run of whole D1. I was attempting it, when I had free time, but stopped since I'm very busy now. But I realised it is pretty much doable, so it would be nice to make such a run. I made it to level 23 without being much carefull (took cca 2h of playing). So think about it:).

[Xfing]

Congratulations for succesfully cold start all D1 and D2 levels with ins-max criteria!
Maybe you can also try ins-max run of whole D1. I was attempting it, when I had free time, but stopped since I'm very busy now. But I realised it is pretty much doable, so it would be nice to make such a run. I made it to level 23 without being much carefull (took cca 2h of playing). So think about it:).

That would be quite a challenge and planning (not to mention tons of practice) would be required. Remembering what gear to save from a previous level for the next one etc, and where to use that gear... I'd probably have to write a spreadsheet for myself with all that stuff lel

[Xfing]

Ok, since I had already recorded several demos of Maximum before I finished Counterstrike, I'll be rolling with Maximum next. Got 6 demos ready at the moment, so I'll give some of my general impressions, as well as detailed ones for each level.

The gimmick with Maximum is that it's basically small levels made in Vertigo style, so they have all the same idiosyncrasies of Dan Wentz levels that Vertigo levels have. So the levels in general are less vibrantly lit, favor darker textures than Counterstrike, feature gracefully put together advanced geometry, and usually feature some sort of symmetry for particular chambers.

Wentz also apparently favored certain textures to the point of using them in every or almost every level he could, becoming his signatures. These would be primarily: rock356 (the black, "obsidian" texture), rock331 (the teal, alien-ish all-purpose texture), metl002/003 and their extensions (the slightly rusted rocky/metallic looking generic texture that gives the levels that industrial look), rock226 (mossy-looking smooth green rock) and rock326 (dark green/cyan porous rock, equivalent of rock057, which is gray). You will notice Wentz using most or even all of these textures in levels regardless of theme, being quite prevalent throughout the entire HOG - something equally evident in Vertigo (though more so with rock356 and the "metl" family than the others mentioned). However Maximum, due to the small size of the levels, is usually much more gimmick-based as far as the geometry goes, so the levels are not as interconnected and naturalistic as Vertigo's, never mind the occasional huge open spaces Vertigo is revered for. The lighting of Wentz's levels is on average dimmer than in D1 and D2, creating something of a melancholic yet arcade-like atmosphere (especially in conjunction with the darker textures that he favors). Yet there is always that quality of newness and sleekness to his levels as well, due to how effortless his geometry seems - particularly his hexagons have aged amazingly well. The level names are riddled with more or less recognizable pop-culture or gaming references, something yet again reminescent of Vertigo, yet pushed even further here. Last but not least - flickering lights are used quite extensively throughout the mission, affecting its mood in similar fashions to Vertigo.

On to level by level impressions:

Level 1: Not much to say here - a bite-sized little level, obviously no problem difficulty-wise. It's level 1 yet it springs almost all of the trademark Wentz textures on you right away, easing you into the mood. No hidden secrets in this one, save the one laser boost directly beyond the red door. Interestingly, this level shares one quite curious trait with D1 level 1 - it only has one door in it, the red door. I always thought this was a fun thing in the first level of Descent.

Level 2: Similar, linear fare, but this time has both a blue and a red door. Pretty and quite fun - particular props for the red-walled area where you pick up the red key, the choice of ceiling texture there was a pleasant surprise (rock244, not something you ever saw in D2). More advanced secrets are featured, both of which are telegraphed and involve disappearing walls and switches. The secret level teleoporter is easy to find and the level once again is no problem.

Level 3: Another very easy level. Features a simple, cliché layout of a central hub area and the colored doors to the 3 sides of it (though the hub is admittedly nice and eye-catching). The hardest part of the level is the trap hidden in the walls of the central hub that reveals 3 ITDs when you come back from the yellow door, but it's no big deal if you know it's there. The texturing is probably the closest to what you'd expect out of D2's Zeta Aquilae thus far, with an interesting cameo from rock059 (the white, porous rock that appears a lot in D1S1), which unfortunately looks a bit lossy outside of D1's palette.

Level 4: Easier than D2's equivalent once again, but it's the first notable jump in size for Maximum, bringing the level closer to the size you'll usually see in this mission. By now you'll also have noticed that robot briefings display at the same level numbers as in Counterstrike, and it usually involves physical appearances of these robots as well. So enter the Lou Guard - luckily they're placed in such a fashion that they're pretty much never a problem. It's easy to take care of the boss too, as even though the arena is cramped, it's very easy to take potshots from the safety of the rim encircling it. You get two easily accessible invulnerabilities and one cloak too, so the boss really shouldn't be hard. Now the interesting part about this level is the design - the layout often involves wide, sloping areas connected with each other via a single cube, not always passable so you need to find an alternate route. It's somewhat reminescent of Vertigo levels 17 and 19 because of this. The hexagonal forcefield area is probably the most eye-catching here, as it even invokes vibes similar to Overload's late alien levels. As for the texturing - it's dark and somewhat somber, with the obsidian texture being almost ubiquitous (definitely its most prolific use thus far), but also has that arcadey feel - it almost feels like a polar opposite of what you'd see in D1, and also quite dissimilar to anything from Counerstrike. Interestingly, several Puuma Sphere textures were used here too, demonstrating how loosely Dan Wentz approaches the Group A theme.

Zeta Aquilae difficulty order from hardest to easiest: 4 > 3 > 2 >1. That's actually pretty cool in how logical it is

Level 5: I like the sprawling, winding layout in this one, making the level actually feel biggish for Maximum. Did I mention Dan Wentz liked rock326? Yeaaaah... Anyway, in my run in the demo the layout kinda worked to my detriment, as I went in blind and it turned out the energy center was at the opposite end of where I went, so I had to do engage in some desperate, energy-less shenanigans with secondary weapons for a while. It's also the first level in the mission where the thiefbot actually appears - it can be annoying to take care of overall in Maximum because of how the level layouts are poor in tight dead ends, which fortunately didn't seem to be a big problem in this one. It also aptly demonstrates how Wentz stuck rather loosely to the theme restrictions from Counterstrike - as this level features both some Puuma Sphere texturing and a single Lou Guard, neither of which appeared in the water levels of Counterstrike.

Level 6: I remember having trouble with this level before I finally managed to record a successful demo. The area where you pick up the yellow key and has an energy center and a hostage cell is rather hard, since you apparently can't load up on energy without triggering the matcens - luckily there's a hidden switch that lets you access the area from the other side, bypassing one matcen trigger. The hostage cell will trigger the matcen anyway, though, so care should be taken there. The thief bot was also harder to deal with here than in level 5. Now again, the interesting part was the design - this level emulates the initial area of Vertigo's level 4 very closely, while the reactor area is highly reminescent of that same level's yellow key area (rock262/263: the dark green, vegetation-like texture, low lighting). Not sure if the purpose of this design choice was to save time or whatever, but I don't mind, since the level is actually quite pretty, tricky though it may be. The hardest level so far for sure, but it still doesn't hold a candle to the levels from the big missions.

That's it for now! Already beat level 7 too, but didn't get a demo of it. Guess that's what I'll be doing next

DEMOS: https://www.sendspace.com/file/cz2vzk

[Alter-Fox]

You know, I watched a playthrough of descent maximum on PSX a while back... the level names were *not* the same as on the PC port -- they were mostly obscure gibberish-like names sorta similar to those three maps in Overload -- and the robot briefings were not in the same places as they were in D2 Counterstrike (thief briefing was on level 5, seeker on 15, just for examples).
I think when DescentMax did his initial conversion the level names and briefings must not have carried over, and he ended up guessing at them. I think Wentz might have released his own conversion of the levels later on with corrected info and briefings because I seem to have that version now, but I don't actually remember how I got it. Nothing in the level design/population itself changes between the two versions anyway.

I could link to that playthrough I guess. It was interesting to see how the game actually played on the system it was meant for.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N39mO8C ... dex=2&t=0s

[Xfing]

The level names were different in the conversion? I thought they were the same. Destination Sony, Cyberyne Operations, Badabingbadadoom and such