Pro-life benefits from pro-choice.

[Ferno]

The irony in this is as large and plentiful as a Thanksgiving dinner.

https://www.vice.com/en/article/m7jmvv/ ... I845aVz5Qs

[Tunnelcat]

Didn't even really faze my abortion hating conservative sister. She and most of our country's mindless conservatives are too delusional right now looking through Trump colored glasses to even notice the hypocrisy.

[Burlyman]

and you actually think that justifies murdering a baby so one can satisfy his lusts? I thought you were smarter than that, Fern-ho. I guess I overestimated you.

[vision]

and you actually think that justifies murdering a baby so one can satisfy his lusts?

I'm actually pro-murdering babies. I've yet to be convinced it's a bad thing.

[Top Gun]

Don't you have a rock to crawl back under, Neo?

[Burlyman]

No, but I have a troll to ignore. Guess who that is?

LOL... You guys are crazy. How would you like it if someone murdered you?

[vision]

How would you like it if someone murdered you?

That's a great question. It depends on when someone murdered me. If they did it before I had a fully formed sense of self or even knew what the concept of death was I wouldn't care one bit. You see, that question only makes sense when your brain reaches a certain level of maturity. You aren't born with a brain in that state, and you certainly don't have it before you are born.

[Spidey]

And once you're dead, you will have no concept that you ever had a self anyway.

So what's the difference again?

[vision]

And once you're dead, you will have no concept that you ever had a self anyway.

So what's the difference again?

I don't know who you are addressing (classic Spidey), so I'll assume it's me and say the difference is that I have an opinion on murder before being murdered, and my opinion is "try to avoid being murdered." I didn't always have that opinion. When I was a baby I didn't have any opinions at all, nor did I know what an opinion was.

[Burlyman]

None of that is true.

[Tunnelcat]

One has to look at things from a certain point of view, especially Burlyman's. When one gets old and is facing death, one starts to ask these sorts of things. So the big question is, do most people believe that human beings have a soul? If yes, even killing a fetus is depriving a new soul of a chance at life on Earth and is essentially murder. If no, then life is cheap and disposable and killing a fetus is no more than squashing a bug.

[Krom]

If natural history teaches us anything it is that life is indeed cheap and disposable.

Its all bull★■◆● if you ask me, if conservatives really cared about life so many of them wouldn't base a huge part of their identity around killing things and then hanging the stuffed corpses on walls. They also spend so much time complaining about killing the unborn while at the same time deliberately and even actively going out of their way to attack and obstruct any attempts to stop a worsening problem known as climate change that if left unchecked will eventually kill everyone.

[Tunnelcat]

They pick whatever riles up their base. Christians flock to the Republicans because they claim they'll stop abortion, even though in the same breath they don't want to address the other social problems that impacts those already living, like poverty, homelessness and child abuse. The Republican mantra, once they're born, they're on their own. Tough ★■◆●. Make it or die. Toughen up. They don't believe in evolution, but they sure like that evolutionary selection practice, survival of the fittest. Even with Covid, it's a liberty problem to them even thinking of having the government require you to wear a mask, even though masks work and 560,000 people have already died from this thing in the US alone. Heaven forbid that they even TRY to address climate change that is currently killing people with natural disasters even in THIS country all because it hurts the bottom line of their largest donors, big corporate business.

You know what my conservative Christian sister was bitching about? California wants to eliminate all single family zoning in their land use laws. She complained that would violate their choice of where they want to live. I responded, "Well, people need to quit having so many babies then because they've got to have somewhere to live and if you don't like being stacked like cord wood when you live in a home, fix the problem causing the issue in the first place, overpopulation and climate change". She fumbled in response.

I still would like responses to my other question. Do people believe humans have a soul?

[vision]

Do people believe humans have a soul?

LOL no. Even if a baby had a soul, they go immediately to heaven, so who gives a ★■◆●?

[Burlyman]

God does, because you were the one who killed him so that's 2 of the seven deadly sins, regardless of where the baby goes, God searches the heart and mind and knows your intention to be a lustful murderer.

By the way, human life isn't cheap. Every baby has potential to be someone great, yet you all say humans are expendable? That makes absolutely no sense at all.

Krom and Tunnelcat just proved that both the demoncats and the reptilicans are wrong and evil and that they should not be looking to politicians to solve the world's problems.

[Tunnelcat]

God did not write the Seven Deadly Sins. They were first conceived by Pope Gregory, {gasp, a Catholic!} and further enumerated on by St. Thomas Aquinas. I thought you hated Catholicism?

Why am I evil? I believe humans have a soul. That's why I asked the question. And no, I don't have to be a Christian to believe that. I also don't believe human life is cheap, but there are so many of us on this planet now, it's become very cheap just out of shear volume and lack of caring. I don't even like the concept of abortion and I personally would only have it done in the case of rape or incest and even then it would bother me. But if you as a Christian value human life Neo, you should value ALL human life, not just those who are unborn. You can't pick and choose and expect respect, especially when many from some Christian faiths actively repress the very contraception practices and funding needed to PREVENT unwanted pregnancies and thus abortions. And if Christians truly believed in the sanctity of life, they wouldn't be members of a political party who actively and politically eschew wearing masks and social distancing during a deadly pandemic, which should be easy for Christianity because it SAVE LIVES, or be all for sending illegal immigrant children back into Mexico to face probable death or worse. Christians are a bunch of hypocrites.

[Jeff250]

Do people believe humans have a soul?

I'm not sure if I would call it a soul or if I would call it something else, but the physical universe would seem to lack the furniture required to explain human experience. For instance, how am I sentient? How do I experience qualia? How am I not a philosophical zombie? Whatever the answer is to those questions, even if it is some as yet undetermined feature of our physical universe, it would hardly seem an essential feature of our physical universe, and we would seem quite fortunate to be able to have it. Whatever that is, call it a soul or not, I believe in that.

[Flatlander]

I do not believe that there is any such thing as a soul, in the religious sense of there being some sort of supernatural aspect to a person. When I was a Christian, the general consensus of the churches that I attended was the trichotomic view, "...which characterizes humans as consisting of a body (soma), soul (psyche), and spirit (pneuma)." WIkipedia

However, this view does not accurately reflect our modern knowledge of neurology and the human brain. I think the case of Phineas Gage illustrates this best, as an example of how a physical injury can drastically change someone's personality. If, as some religions teach, there is a supernatural soul that is somehow part of a person and their personality, then how could a physical injury or trauma possibly affect the soul? Shouldn't the personality remain unchanged? For a Christian who believes in an eternal soul, if Phineas Gage is in heaven, which version of him is there? The pre-injury version or the post-injury version?

I think that whatever ineffable "spirit" or "soul" we seem to possess is just a result of sapience or intelligence, or in other words, the mind/consciousness. The mind is the software that runs on the hardware of the brain.

[Jeff250]

Yep. Just to clarify, I believe that memory, personality, character, behavior, intelligence, emoting, etc. are all easily explained by the physical universe. It's just being able to experience what it feels like to sit in a hot tub... I'm not so sure, and even if it can be, the capability to have such experience wouldn't seem to be an essential feature of our universe, and we could as well have lived in a universe where stepping into a hot tub invokes no more feeling of warmth than dropping a towel into one. (I'm making some assumptions on what it's like to be a towel...)

[Tunnelcat]

Let's just say I believe there's more to us even after our bodies are long gone. Whether that's a soul or something else, I don't know. I do know that most of the world's religions don't answer the question to my satisfaction.

[Burlyman]

God did not write the Seven Deadly Sins. They were first conceived by Pope Gregory, {gasp, a Catholic!} and further enumerated on by St. Thomas Aquinas. I thought you hated Catholicism?

Why am I evil? I believe humans have a soul. That's why I asked the question. And no, I don't have to be a Christian to believe that. I also don't believe human life is cheap, but there are so many of us on this planet now, it's become very cheap just out of shear volume and lack of caring. I don't even like the concept of abortion and I personally would only have it done in the case of rape or incest and even then it would bother me. But if you as a Christian value human life Neo, you should value ALL human life, not just those who are unborn. You can't pick and choose and expect respect, especially when many from some Christian faiths actively repress the very contraception practices and funding needed to PREVENT unwanted pregnancies and thus abortions. And if Christians truly believed in the sanctity of life, they wouldn't be members of a political party who actively and politically eschew wearing masks and social distancing during a deadly pandemic, which should be easy for Christianity because it SAVE LIVES, or be all for sending illegal immigrant children back into Mexico to face probable death or worse. Christians are a bunch of hypocrites.

The Bible says there are seven sins that are an abomination to God. I agree with you 100% about hypocritical "Christians" who join a political party and claim it's more Christian than the other. They are both evil. I also agree with you about abortions except rape and incest and contraception. There was no allowance for such a thing in the original creation, so I don't see why it should be an issue now. People just want to have more sex, which is lust. Remember, abortions/contraception was taught to us by fallen angels!

All humans have to study the word of God and show themselves to be approved of Him. Physical defects or injury/trauma are no excuse. Sometimes it even happens after they've formed a negative opinion of God. The mind is not at all located in the brain. There's nothing that proves the brain is a mind, unless you can prove me wrong; the mind seems to be reacting to what the mind is doing.

[Flatlander]

All humans have to study the word of God and show themselves to be approved of Him.

And ★■◆● all those suckers who happened to be born, live their entire lives, and die before the Bible was written, right? So sad, too bad, no salvation for them!

[Top Gun]

The mind is not at all located in the brain. There's nothing that proves the brain is a mind, unless you can prove me wrong; the mind seems to be reacting to what the mind is doing.

[Burlyman]

All humans have to study the word of God and show themselves to be approved of Him.

And ★■◆● all those suckers who happened to be born, live their entire lives, and die before the Bible was written, right? So sad, too bad, no salvation for them!

God was known before the Bible was written. Remember Adam?

Looks like Top Gun is making fun of you.

[Tunnelcat]

So, did dinosaurs, mammals, eventually proto and modern humanoids and the billions of years of life and earth's existence and history come before or after Adam and Eve or am I missing something? Nowhere is any of that mentioned in the Bible.

[Flatlander]

Adam? First, there appear to be two contradictory creation accounts in Genesis. "In the first creation story, humans are created after the other animals." "In the second story, humans were created before the other animals." Source: https://skepticsannotatedbible.com/contra/accounts.html

Answers in Genesis does a bunch of hand-waving about the meaning of the word "formed" or something to explain this away. Source: https://answersingenesis.org/contradict ... -accounts/

In any case, it's irrelevant. The story of Adam and Eve is just one of many creation myths that various ancient human cultures came up with to try to explain the world around them, before the advent of the scientific method. As such, it is only interesting from a historical, socio-cultural or anthropological viewpoint and should not be taken as literal, historical fact. Rather, we should look to scientific documents and research for these answers.

[Burlyman]

Those events in evolution never happened.

Adam? First, there appear to be two contradictory creation accounts in Genesis. "In the first creation story, humans are created after the other animals." "In the second story, humans were created before the other animals." Source: https://skepticsannotatedbible.com/contra/accounts.html

Answers in Genesis does a bunch of hand-waving about the meaning of the word "formed" or something to explain this away. Source: https://answersingenesis.org/contradict ... -accounts/

In any case, it's irrelevant. The story of Adam and Eve is just one of many creation myths that various ancient human cultures came up with to try to explain the world around them, before the advent of the scientific method. As such, it is only interesting from a historical, socio-cultural or anthropological viewpoint and should not be taken as literal, historical fact. Rather, we should look to scientific documents and research for these answers.

You just say that because you don't know what God did to create man or exactly why he was special.