Time for War?

[Tunnelcat]

Has the time come to put this little pantywaist despot of a dictator to permanent rest, dead preferably? The free world is tired of his warmongering, his state sanctioned hacking, the coddling and support of other despot nations who hate the West and the threats of mutually assured destruction if we interfere with his grand now-royally-fucked-up war dreams, a resurrected Soviet Union. Ukraine is being leveled as a country and it's civilians are either being mass murdered or forced to flee for their lives, for no reason other than the vanity of one ★■◆●ing despot, Vladimir Putin. And yet, we still stand here hoping sanctions do the job! Our country is in the throws of it's highest inflationary period in 40 years and although we can't lay the blame for all of that on Putin, he's exacerbating things by creating world instability with his vanity war and the millions of refugees ending up in European countries with no homes to go to. The costs are becoming astronomical and our Congress just approved $13.9 BILLION of our own money out of a $1.5 TRILLION spending package in aid to Ukraine. I'm willing to help Ukraine, but it needs to really HELP, not be a temporary and expensive band aid. Putin's military has turned out to be incompetent, so he's indiscriminately shelling and bombing them into submission, even now threatening to use weapons of mass destruction on civilians, all because he doesn't want to lose face in a senseless incompetent war HE started.

If conservatives like woodchip think Biden is being weak, I'm afraid I have to agree. But Trump was, is and wouldn't now be a solution. Besides the fact that Trump has a despot bromance going on with Putin, the Ukrainians HATE Trump. I know because many of them have told me to my face. I point out that little backstabbing quid pro quo phone call he made to Zelensky in 2019, when Ukraine asked for $400 million in military aid, TO HELP DEFEND AGAINST RUSSIA you jackass! Trump wanted a "favor" in exchange for that aid, perhaps some made up dirt on Hunter Biden right before the election here? Or some kind of corroboration on a conspiracy theory concerning a Democratic Party server floating around like some mystery laptop just waiting to be discovered? ★■◆●, what an imbecile!

What's the average American's stomach right now on the U.S. and NATO going into full scale war with Russia to clear them out of Ukraine? How about Europeans since they're closer? I'm seriously leaning towards it myself. Time for NATO and the West to rip the band aid off this festering boil of a despot and pop his dreams.You know we'd clean their clocks right now militarily (and Putin knows it), but the Russian crazy man has threatened nuclear war if we do. So do we call his bluff? Do we depend on his oligarch friends calling his bluff? At this point, I'm getting tired of the panty waist response the West has had towards this bastard and his war, a bastard who's now considering using chemical and biological weapons out of desperation. How much evil will the free world tolerate, AGAIN? For the love of God, I hope none.

[Krom]

Nothing would improve if we went off and started World War III.

[Spidey]

Personally, I believe the Ukrainians should take the deal and be done with it.

They will never get back those annexed areas, and neutrality is not a high price to pay for stopping the war.

Of course, the idea that Putin would not renege on any deal is probably wishful thinking.

[Top Gun]

Personally, I believe the Ukrainians should take the deal and be done with it.

They will never get back those annexed areas, and neutrality is not a high price to pay for stopping the war.

Of course, the idea that Putin would not renege on any deal is probably wishful thinking.

Ah yes, because taking the knee to megalomaniacal dictators has worked precisely *checks notes* zero times in history.

[Ferno]

I was expecting this thread to be started by woodchip about five days ago.

[Vander]

I say we invade Russia while they're looking the other way.

[Tunnelcat]

Nothing would improve if we went off and started World War III.

True. Unfortunately it's a deadly game of poker, where one opponent sees if he can bluff the other into giving up his hand. The consequences of calling that bluff on a crazy megalomaniac is a world apocalypse. I'm hoping Russia's economy collapses before ours and Putin or his oligarchs finally capitulate. I also hope that this isn't Biden's Waterloo, because we don't need Trump back in office in 2024 spouting his superiority to "save" us from Putin and inflation.

What I'm really waiting for is to the see what the free world's reaction will be when Putin uses chemical and/or biological weapons against Ukrainian citizens. He's done it in Syria and Chechnya and recently Russian soldiers have been seen carrying bio/chem hazard suits into the field in Ukraine. He's already used cluster bombs and thermobaric (vacuum) bombs there, which are against the Geneva Convention. Of course, we used the damn thermobaric bombs in Syria, so we don't have any standing to complain nor will we be ever tried as war criminals. The world royally sucks right now.

I was expecting this thread to be started by woodchip about five days ago.

I did it to SEE if Americans had the stomach for war (apparently not, not even for the millions of people being displaced by the actions of one despot) and if woodchip would reply that Trump would've solved the whole thing with one masterful sweep of his orange hair and a kiss to Putin's ass. No worries about golden showers videos being released to the public as long as he and Putin are best bros.

Personally, I believe the Ukrainians should take the deal and be done with it.

They will never get back those annexed areas, and neutrality is not a high price to pay for stopping the war.

Of course, the idea that Putin would not renege on any deal is probably wishful thinking.

What deal? Putin wants their whole country right now, not just the annexed areas.

[CDN_Merlin]

Putin wants all the countries that left the USSR back. And he will fight for it.

[Tunnelcat]

That's what my Ukrainian friend said as well. My burning question is, conservatives keep saying that if Trump was still in office, none of this would have happened in the first place. Even if it had, he would have stopped Putin cold because he's a "strong" leader. bull★■◆●! Geezus Christ I'm getting tired of my stupid Tucker Carlson brainwashed sister bitching about how all this is Biden's fault and that Trump would do much better. Give me a ★■◆●ing break! A simple straightforward answer with reasonable standing and facts is needed, not squishy "feelings" for an idiot they just can't seem to quit. Conservatives keep forgetting that Trump hated NATO and was tempted to pull out of it, because I'm getting sick of hearing conservative bitching about Biden. Yes, I think Biden is "looking" weak, but I'm willing to cut him some slack since we aren't privy to everything our military is doing (remember, Trump said we shouldn't reveal our military plans to the public) and facing off with a crazy Russian leader who wants WWIII all because his pantywaist military royally screwed the pooch and needs to save face is irrational. To prove that irrationality, Putin now wants to cheat to win at all costs by using chemical and bio-weapons against civilians, civilians who hate his guts. That's not being a "man", that's being a short man chickenshit wimp. Putin wants Ukraine, he needs to fight man to man to get it. That's serious business and I don't think this is something Trump's pea brain can internalize or handle. Since Putin has some sort of hold on Trump, he'd be more likely to look the other way to save his precious orange ass.

[Sergeant Thorne]

It's way too convenient that everyone is jumping on the anti Russia bandwagon and either sounding the drums of war or working to "cancel" them. International politics is only this simple in propaganda. Russia has an interest in Ukraine from the perspective of national sovereignty. Not many people are talking about that. The U.S. government is smacking a hornet's nest on your porch after turning off your utilities and raiding your fridge. Total domination. We have a manufactured economic ★■◆●-storm coming our way, and it's important that the lemmings are emotionally and mentally distracted. The international community driven by the powers that be have their designs regarding Russia and the U.S. We are pawns on a chess board. Might as well try to see it for what it is.

Anyone else in a position to enjoy the supply chain problems beyond retail woes (there has been no Welches grape juice at Meijer in months)? I do some ordering for business grade electronics, and it's kind of like the grocery store before a major blizzard. It was getting like that before Russia became major news, but only really got bad in the last 6-10 months. Prices are way up, and supply is bad. Taking a really long time for big companies to get iPhones.

[CDN_Merlin]

I waited 11 months for my Trek bike
I waited 6 months for my couch
I waited 5 months for my freezer
I waited 6 months for my bedroom set

[Top Gun]

Ah yes Thorne, a fascist despot is illegally invading a sovereign country and murdering civilians en masse, but what really matters is that you can't buy grape juice. Pathetic.

[TheWhat]

It’s complete bs man. I haven’t been able to get Pineapple Bubbly water for at least 6 months (who cares about entire apartment buildings being shelled). At first I thought it was some rich lady on Lake Minnetonka stockpiling the stuff along with the Kevita without the cayenne pepper flavoring (never mind bombing paternity hospitals with mothers being wheeled away with half a kid sticking out of her) I want my products!

On the upside my 2018 Fender Jazz Ultra in Cobra Blue could be sold for about $1900 clams for a profit of about $450 (never mind entire cities being starved out with water supplies cut off its all just George Soros propaganda… anyways let’s rush the capital because I didn’t get my way mulletman brothers and sisters).

[Spidey]

According to Putin, Ukraine is just getting some tough love.

[CDN_Merlin]

Ukraine will not be the only country he attacks.

[vision]

Ukraine will not be the only country he attacks.

On the contrary, there is a really good chance that this is the end of Russia's regional influence. The tremendous failure of their military coupled with the worldwide condemnation of their actions paints a terrible picture of their future as an ineffectual global power. I predict that Russia will basically turn into another Pakistan, a nuclear country that has very limited influence on Asia let alone the world. Russia will fare better because of their natural resources and agriculture, but without a significant change of internal dynamics after Putin leaves they are basically dead in the water.

It's way too convenient that everyone is jumping on the anti Russia bandwagon...

So, so stupid and selfish.

[Tunnelcat]

It's way too convenient that everyone is jumping on the anti Russia bandwagon and either sounding the drums of war or working to "cancel" them. International politics is only this simple in propaganda. Russia has an interest in Ukraine from the perspective of national sovereignty. Not many people are talking about that. The U.S. government is smacking a hornet's nest on your porch after turning off your utilities and raiding your fridge. Total domination. We have a manufactured economic ★■◆●-storm coming our way, and it's important that the lemmings are emotionally and mentally distracted. The international community driven by the powers that be have their designs regarding Russia and the U.S. We are pawns on a chess board. Might as well try to see it for what it is.

Anyone else in a position to enjoy the supply chain problems beyond retail woes (there has been no Welches grape juice at Meijer in months)? I do some ordering for business grade electronics, and it's kind of like the grocery store before a major blizzard. It was getting like that before Russia became major news, but only really got bad in the last 6-10 months. Prices are way up, and supply is bad. Taking a really long time for big companies to get iPhones.

Do you have a heart or soul? You got your despot love going? You want to see democracy in the world fail? I guess so since you favor antidemocratic despots like Trump. Do you like to see women and children being murdered and their bodies dumped in mass trench graves, plus the nearly 3 million refugees flowing into NATO countries day after day all because ONE crazy Russian despot wants their land and is willing to destroy the population and infrastructure to get it? Sound familiar, like just before WWII perhaps? WTF is wrong with you AND my hedonistic sister as well? Putin is outright murdering civilians and children with bombs and missiles all because he thought he could waltz in easy like it was a Sunday afternoon but instead found out his military was nothing but the Three Stooges on steroids and that the Ukrainians had more balls to defend their country than he thought they did. If that prick Putin didn't have nuclear weapons, NATO could move in and steamroller Putin's army in a heartbeat and Putin now knows it. Now all the bastard wants is to save face and not look like a LOSER and he's playing the nuclear card to keep us out. That protestor who stood behind a newscaster on state Russian TV with a NO WAR protest sign said that every Russian that's behind Putin is nothing but a mindless zombie who drinks in Putin's propaganda as the TRUTH day after day. Most older Russians never see the carnage and destruction in Ukraine, but the young savvy ones DO. You know, kind of like all the old clueless Trumptards living in THIS country?

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics ... ar-AAUURti

You ★■◆● and moan because you and I can't get certain items, oh poor us babies. Such hardship. WE DON'T KNOW HARDSHIP! Besides, most of the shortages are mostly because of the pandemic (China is having to do more Covid shutdowns as we speak, including electronics factories) and not because of Russia, and you're complaining about people having anti-Russia sentiment? Most of this country is pro-Ukraine at this point, so you are in the minority. Why don't you go out and do something productive, like become a truck driver or a pilot, because it's a lack of those people on the job that's adding to our supply chain problems. If I was younger, I'd go and apply, but my eyesight isn't as good and my body is failing with age. Complain to Congress instead about our lovely free market since it seems that when the price of a barrel of oil spikes, gas prices go up very quickly at the pump. But when it drops below $100 a barrel, like it did a couple of days ago, we've seen no price reductions at the pump and probably won't for weeks. Rapid rise, slow fall. We're all being taken for a ride because Americans are being held hostage by the oil companies who all want to do their drill baby drill bull★■◆● in ecologically sensitive areas, so let's squeeze the customer until they ★■◆● and demand more oil and let us have our way. By the way, there is ONE product I'm having trouble getting because of Russia and that's Ravenol motor oil. It's made in Germany from Russian natural gas, so it makes sense that it's in short supply and you know what? I don't give a damn right now. I can get an American equivalent. Putin can go to Hell and ★■◆● himself. Better yet, DIE!

[Top Gun]

Thorne is essentially a walking billboard for "What Would Jesus Not Do."

[Tunnelcat]

[Ferno]

"way too convenient", Thorne?

Is this convenient?











Sit the ★■◆● down, shut the ★■◆● up, and maybe... just maybe you might fuckin learn something.

[Tunnelcat]

I see despots crave the same thing, adulation. Plus, these guys just can't miss out on a good boner.

[TheWhat]

I tried watching that annexation rally but I don’t speak Russian. I wonder if that music act sucks as much balls as the performers at American political rallies? Unless that guy was like the Russian Bob Dylan or something, maybe he is great. Or maybe he is like a D level regional tribute band guy doing great Russian pryde n trucks n woman n the long highway from the Kremlin down to Main Street it’s great Russian pryyyyyyyydddddeeeee

[Tunnelcat]

I'd love to know what all those signs say. "Make Russia Great Again"? Need Sigma to translate.

What's even funnier is that all the seats in the stadium are yellow and the stage Putin is standing on is blue, Ukraine's national colors. Ooopsie.

[Vander]

Russia has an interest in Ukraine from the perspective of national sovereignty.

Whom among us hasn't invaded a country in the name of national sovereignty. Putin has been pretty clear that he believes Ukraine was a communist mistake. That it's filled with Russians, and just because they don't want to actually be Russians doesn't make them Ukrainians.

The way I see it, Russia's only chance for any kind of positive outcome was a quick government decapitation, have the Ukrainian population mostly acquiesce to an installed government subservient to Russia, and have the west squabble over what to do about it. They misjudged their own capabilities, misjudged the reception they'd receive, and misjudged the unified reaction by the west.

They've already lost, the only question is how much of Ukraine they will destroy before they "declare victory" and leave. Even if they end up overthrowing the government, they're looking at possibly the most well armed insurgency in history. Putin seems to have kicked away the ladder he climbed up with, so for Ukraine's sake I hope we're trying to find a quick way back down for him, but I'd bet money some game theory ★■◆● in a cubicle wrote a report making its way up the chain saying Ukraine is a small price to pay to absolutely ★■◆● him.

It's also not good that the region is a large world supplier of grain. A lot of people are going to go hungry, and a hungry mob is an angry mob.

[Tunnelcat]

Now Putin is re-prioritizing, in other words, retreating and changing tactics, since he's gotten his army's butt kicked so thoroughly by Ukrainians wielding U.S. anti-aircraft and anti-tank weaponry and God knows what other weapons we've given them. He's lost maybe 4 or 5 generals and perhaps around 16,000 troops and untold numbers of tanks, APC's and one LST ship even. Now Putin says it was "really" all about taking the Eastern Donbas region, despite the fact that large sections of Ukrainian cities and factories outside that area are now rubble and ruin where people can't even return to and live or work.The big takeaway from all this nonsense for military strategists all over is that tanks, APC's and even helicopters are now nothing but tin cans with big targets painted on their sides in the face of modern weapons specifically designed to take them out and that urban warfare with a determined populace can be nasty and costly. By resorting to using only missiles and artillery to destroy people's homes and places of work for what amounts to nothing but show now makes Putin a war criminal.

https://www.defense.gov/News/News-Stori ... than-kyiv/

[Krom]

It is probably safe to say the era of main battle tanks is pretty much over. It also doesn't help that many of the Russian tanks were designed before the proliferation of shoulder launched anti-tank missiles. A lot of or even the majority of Russian tanks on the field have autoloading main cannons with the ammo stored in a circular magazine around the inside of the turret which is also the top of the crew compartment, so when one is hit by any of these infantry portable missile launchers that all attack from above where the armor is the weakest, it sets off the ammo magazine which blows the turret clean off and kills everyone in the tank instantly. Modern NATO armor at least compartmentalizes their magazines and makes it so if it is compromised the explosive force is directed out of the vehicle and quite often the tank can even still be driven to safety by its occupants.

Then the incompetent way Russia is using its armor, no matter how good the tank is it will still be nothing more than a steel coffin when operating wide open on the roads without lots of infantry and close air support.

[Tunnelcat]

The ONE thing I have to begrudgingly give to Trump, the fact he banned all U.S. government agencies from installing or using Kaspersky Antivirus software in 2017. I've known for years they were a Russian company and as long that despot Putin, who's a former FSB agent now running the show in Russia, I refuse to install something so invasive on my computer. Never have, never will. I'm surprised Biden hasn't outright called for all Americans to remove that software from their computers and phones for the sake of national security. Even Google and Apple should take if off their store pages as part of our national sanctions. It also makes me wonder about the PC game DCS World, a "free" fighter aircraft simulator that you can find on Steam, also made by Russians. Time to put the screws to Russia and their businesses and avoid anything they make or sell like the plague.

https://www.reuters.com/business/media- ... 022-03-25/

...Then the incompetent way Russia is using its armor, no matter how good the tank is it will still be nothing more than a steel coffin when operating wide open on the roads without lots of infantry and close air support.

Good thing Putin's war advisors are either idiots or leftovers from WWII., at least for the sake of Ukraine. Ukrainians used that stupidity to full effect too when they bottled up Russia's tank traffic jams and destroyed them en masse in several cities.

[CDN_Merlin]

We should ban everything Russian. I'm surprised that Putin hasn't been in someone's crosshairs yet. Canada has said they will assist the US and Europe with oil so they they can rebound from the sanctions set on Russian oil. We need to not give that up after this war is over.

[TigerRaptor]

I'm hoping Nokian Tyres completely pulls out of Russia rather than some of its productions. Not sure I want to do business with them again if they stay.

[Vander]

I don't like the idea of punishing the entire population of a nation for the actions of it's rulers, especially the more repressive states who ostensibly have less control over the conduct of their government.

It would be nice if instead of the norm where complete assholes use a crisis for short term gain, we used this war to accelerate the move away from fossil fuels and the grip of the despots who control the ground atop them. Human habitability doesn't seem to move the needle enough with powerful people, perhaps being in thrall to likes of MBS and Putin would.

[Krom]

I've been driving an EV since 2020 because ★■◆● those guys.

Also yesterday I drove 112 miles for $4.45.

[Tunnelcat]

It's official and I wondered when this particular hammer would drop. The Russian military is run by idiots leading soldiers too young to remember some very important and still lethal history.

https://www.commondreams.org/news/2022/ ... n-sickness