Hypocrites

[woodchip]

So it is okay for the border states to field 10's of thousands of illegals a day but it is a crime to share the pain with a rich sanctuary city like Martha Vineyards ? Didn't know it was also okay to be racist and quickly get the poor sods off the island. And now dim rims like gov Newsom want the DOJ to charge DeSantis for human kidnapping, forgetting of course this was what the Biden Admin was doing only in the dead of night as he bused thousands of illegals to various cities. How the various mayors of dem cities cry foul when illegals are sent to their already crime invested cities.

[vision]

You seem to be missing a bunch of details, which is expected from you.

[Vander]

woodchip you used "illegals" 3 times in your post. Can you please explain that?

[Top Gun]

ITT a dementia-addled boomer drools some more.

[Spidey]

Bussing migrants is the first brilliant political stunt pulled by the Republicans in a long long time.

Listening to the retorts and whining by Democrats is just golden.

"We don't have the infrastructure"...Yea, neither do the southern states.

[Top Gun]

The "retorts and whining" is pointing out that this was literal ★■◆●ing kidnapping.

[Vander]

"brilliant"

Meh, it's not new or innovative. Just your average ★■◆● pretending to govern.

[Tunnelcat]

Bussing migrants is the first brilliant political stunt pulled by the Republicans in a long long time.

Listening to the retorts and whining by Democrats is just golden.

"We don't have the infrastructure"...Yea, neither do the southern states.

No, it's a cruel political stunt by desperate and cynical Republicans who think doing this will get them brownie points and votes from every bigot in America since they want to distract from their little overturn Roe v Wade screw job come November. If Republicans were REALLY concerned with immigration, other than build more WALLS, WALLS, WALLS, which is ALL they've called for as of late, they'd get off their collective bigoted shitty asses in Congress, work with the Dems and fix a problem that's been staring us in the face for DECADES. Congress is responsible for fixing it, not Biden. And dammit, that ★■◆● Pelosi needs to get her wrinkled ugly ass out of Armenia fer cripes sake and work on our problems HERE.

[Darth Wang]

They were legal asylum seekers, FYI.

[woodchip]

You seem to be missing a bunch of details, which is expected from you.

And what details would those be?

[woodchip]

woodchip you used "illegals" 3 times in your post. Can you please explain that?

And what else would you call them?

[woodchip]

"brilliant"

Meh, it's not new or innovative. Just your average ★■◆● pretending to govern.

You secretly talking about Biden and the Dems?

[woodchip]

They were legal asylum seekers, FYI.

Were they now.

[woodchip]

Bussing migrants is the first brilliant political stunt pulled by the Republicans in a long long time.

Listening to the retorts and whining by Democrats is just golden.

"We don't have the infrastructure"...Yea, neither do the southern states.

No, it's a cruel political stunt by desperate and cynical Republicans who think doing this will get them brownie points and votes from every bigot in America since they want to distract from their little overturn Roe v Wade screw job come November. If Republicans were REALLY concerned with immigration, other than build more WALLS, WALLS, WALLS, which is ALL they've called for as of late, they'd get off their collective bigoted shitty asses in Congress, work with the Dems and fix a problem that's been staring us in the face for DECADES. Congress is responsible for fixing it, not Biden. And dammit, that ★■◆● Pelosi needs to get her wrinkled ugly ass out of Armenia fer cripes sake and work on our problems HERE.

Political stunt? What do you call encouraging them in the the first place. What do you call Biden's midnight busing trips? Roe vs Wade? All Sotus did was kick it back to the states to decide. Or do you think it was now somehow part of the constitution? So now Pelosi is a ★■◆● because she has done something you don't approve of

[Vander]

And what else would you call them?

Legals?

[Tunnelcat]

Political stunt? What do you call encouraging them in the the first place. What do you call Biden's midnight busing trips? Roe vs Wade? All Sotus did was kick it back to the states to decide. Or do you think it was now somehow part of the constitution? So now Pelosi is a ★■◆● because she has done something you don't approve of

No one is encouraging them to come. The vision of the American Dream and violence at home is driving them to come here. Yes, Biden's been busing them also, but not lying to them about it like DeSantis. And no, I don't approve of Biden doing it in secret either because that's political stunt as well. I certainly have NEVER liked Pelosi, so I don't know where you got that idea. But I stand by my statement. CONGRESS is the entity that makes law. CONGRESS needs to fix the problem. All YOUR party has done for years is ★■◆● and moan about the issue and refuse to work with the Dems on a permanent solution. All your bigoted party really wants is a magical impenetrable wall to keep out those who are not American and call it fixed for their bigoted base. However, walls aren't a solution. Walls can be gotten around. Migrants seeking asylum and yes, criminals as well, will always find a way because humans are smart and a wall is not a barrier. Since your party has never seen fit to even try to make good law around this issue, they obviously don't really want immigration occurring at all, especially if they aren't white Christian conservative people, which is un-American at its core.

As for Roe v Wade, Lindsey Graham has just put forth a law in the Senate to make abortion illegal federally. That is not "states rights" is it? All the Republican Christo-Fascists want is MORE power over women like the ★■◆●ing Taliban. Well ★■◆● them. This ain't Afghanistan. The Constitution does not specially give women the right to privacy or abortion, but it's "implied" in several Ammendments. Just as the Second Amendment "implies" you can own an assault weapon as a private citizen (weapons the Founding Fathers never envisioned in their wildest dreams when they wrote that Amendment) and a militia "really" doesn't have to be state regulated since you seem to like splitting hairs. I can just hear your screams if a liberal SCOTUS were to interpret the implied definitions in the Second Amendment differently than you do and claim that what they REALLY meant was that we private citizens could only own muzzle loading muskets and that all these white nationalist fascist militias running around right now need to be regulated by their states.

So what I want as an American woman is the right to freedom, the right to control my own body without state or religious interference and the right to keep church and state SEPARATE!

[Darth Wang]

They were legal asylum seekers, FYI.

Were they now.

Yes, they were.

[Tunnelcat]

But Darth Wang, didn't woody's Q Messiah, Heir Trump, claim most of them were rapists, murderers and drug dealers?

[Ferno]

Shut the ★■◆● up, Woody.

I'd shut you up myself if I could, but I'm afraid I'd make you look better.

[Vander]

The thing about woodchip is that after it's point out that his entire premise is factually wrong, there's a 90% chance he doesn't respond. It's unsatisfying.

[Spidey]

Maybe if the debates were more civilized...

But yea, pointing out hypocrisy among our political leaders is really a no brainer.

Arguing against it is really...dumb.

[Ferno]

The thing about woodchip is that after it's point out that his entire premise is factually wrong, there's a 90% chance he doesn't respond. It's unsatisfying.

That's true. He runs off to start another garbage thread. Each thread he abandons after starting is a win in my book.

Spidey, there is no civilized debate with that individual. There is no room for civility when he spews hate. We will never give him the floor because of that. Debate implies he has a different viewpoint for a certain set of facts. He doesn't do facts. His hate needs to be shut down.

[vision]

Maybe if the debates were more civilized...

There is nothing to debate when you show up spew propaganda without doing the slightest research or fact checking. In fact, we should be even harder on this stuff. It should be removed immediately on sight and routine offenders should be blocked. I'm serious. This isn't an "intolerant left" meme. This isn't censorship. This is throwing out the trash.

If anyone wants to have a serious discussion about immigration I'm all for it. Do your homework and get back to me with a well crafted thesis and supporting facts. That's what the start of a debate looks like. Reposting right-wing propaganda points isn't an opener.

[Spidey]

When someone points out hypocrisy by politicians it's pretty hard to miss the mark, it's a target rich environment.

The OP does have some hyperbolic text, but it basically hits the mark, and was never meant to be a discussion on immigration.

If you want to see some hate filled regurgitated left-wing propaganda, you should have a quick look at some of TC's posts, but no one ever says a word about those.

I couldn't even bring myself to reply to her rebuke of my post due the hateful content.

Also she states that the congress has the power to fix the immigration problem, but she conveniently leaves out the fact that the WH and State Department have the authority to deal with this kind of crisis.

[Vander]

IMO, you can't have a civilized debate on immigration because "no more immigrants" isn't a civilized position. Neither is it a viable one. And unfortunately, that has become a core pillar of reactionary turn in the Republican party.

I mean, I'm all for reforming immigration policies, or providing more resources to facilitate it. And I'm certainly for foreign policies that help countries thrive so that immigrating isn't as much of a necessity. But it's not worth negotiating with people who would rather have a broken system then a working system because it's closer to their goal of no system and a wall.

[Spidey]

You can't have a civilized debate on immigration as long as one side is constantly accused of racism and xenophobia, and the other side is being accused of wanting to change demographics in their favor.

[Vander]

Is it racist and xenophobic to assume immigrants will vote with your perceived enemies against you?

[Tunnelcat]

When someone points out hypocrisy by politicians it's pretty hard to miss the mark, it's a target rich environment.

The OP does have some hyperbolic text, but it basically hits the mark, and was never meant to be a discussion on immigration.

If you want to see some hate filled regurgitated left-wing propaganda, you should have a quick look at some of TC's posts, but no one ever says a word about those.

I couldn't even bring myself to reply to her rebuke of my post due the hateful content.

Also she states that the congress has the power to fix the immigration problem, but she conveniently leaves out the fact that the WH and State Department have the authority to deal with this kind of crisis.

Spidey, I'm only registered as a Dem, but I don't consider myself a Dem, only because I'm left of center and don't want to be harassed by the parties during the primaries registered as an independent. However, I'm seriously pissed off at the nutty political right for now and I have good reason. So sure, the busing of migrants was a brilliant idea to throw in the face of the Dems who were doing essentially the same damn thing in secret like a bunch of hypocrites. Yes, I knew about it and thought it was stupid, so I'm not uninformed about the crap on the left. But it's downright cruel to tell these poor asylum seekers they're going to get jobs, housing and food if they just take this little freebie plane ride to where they thought was New York, but ended up being unceremoniously dumped in Martha's Vineyard with no place to go. And by the way, Mr. DeSantis paid for that trip using Federal Covid relief funds he had lying around just to ship migrants FROM TEXAS because he saw no reason to use those funds for say.... Covid relief in Florida. Besides, he wanted to gin up support from his bigoted base, the very state who brought us the "Don't Say Gay" bill. That's not leftie propaganda either. Is that OK Spidey? In my view, it is NOT, no matter which governor from which party does it. If the Republicans want to fix immigration, work to fix it per the process, not break it more like a bunch of kindergartners. It takes 2 to tango in Congress to get something done, so they need to step up.

And I'm NOT off base calling the current crop of Republicans BIGOTS bordering on Fascists, because THEY ARE. As others have pointed out, all the Republicans want right now is a big effing WALL, preferably topped with machine gun turrets and a license to shoot. But they'll NEVER in a million years voice that out loud, other than ol' woody himself, which I'll have to hand it to him that he had the balls to even breathe out that thought at some point here. And you call me hate filled. YOU are not on the receiving end of all the current Republican Party's evil political moves they've been up to. YOU are not a woman who can no longer make choices about her own body when it comes to pregnancy. If it keeps up, women won't even be able to access contraception either. YOU are not a member of the LGBTQ community who has to listen to all this hate filled bigotry and suck it up, smile and take being stepped on like a stinking turd over and over. And yet, you dare say all my complaints are left wing propaganda. Well, I used to vote for conservatives at one time, when they were sane and not a bunch of culture warriors. I would STILL since I'm fiscally conservative as a retiree. But no longer. Until you can stand in the shoes of people under attack by a party you won't even call yourself a member of anymore, don't ★■◆● about my posts. I'm so mad right now I've even disowned my own sister, who can't seem to see that her beloved party she pledges allegiance to has now gone down the rabbit hole with a de facto autocratic leader now openly supporting absolute nonsense conspiracy BS like "Q". She would rather vote her party line because her church and Fox News tell her to like some mindless sheep rather than listen to ANY contrary facts or support a member of her own family who's different from the norm. Can you say brainwashing. Geezus!

[Vander]

I should also say that I don't see racist and xenophobic impulses as automatically abhorrent. We're pretty much wired up for tribalism. It's how you act on the impulses that matters. But my general philosophy is to have a bit of empathy and try not to be an ★■◆●.

[Ferno]

You can't have a civilized debate on immigration as long as one side is constantly accused of racism and xenophobia, and the other side is being accused of wanting to change demographics in their favor.

When one side constantly engages in it, we have a duty as decent human beings to call it out every time. If we don't, it finds more people to seed in and it spreads; like a weed.

the busing of migrants was a brilliant idea

Calling you out on this one Tunnelcat. No it's not a 'brilliant idea' Using people as political pawns in a stunt is not 'brilliant'. t's a horrid, wretched and inhumane idea. To see you say this is maddening.

to throw in the face of the Dems who were doing essentially the same damn thing in secret

This is QAnon nonsense. I'm not going to sit here and let that go unchallenged. This is like the moon landing hoax conspiracy. If this was true, you'd need hundreds if not thousands of people involved. And there would be reports of this everywhere. It would be larger than the CIA conspiracies.

[Tunnelcat]

You know Ferno, you're right. I stand corrected for blithering BS during my rant and stepping into their trap. Damn Republicans are gutting under my skin. I could use a beer right about now. A tall cold can of F-Bomb would suffice and yes, there is a beer called F-Bomb and it's pretty good.

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2 ... s-cities-/

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2 ... on-busing/

[Darth Wang]

I'd like to see some concrete examples of what Spidey considers 'hate speech' from the left.

Also, if you're so worried about immigrants voting against you, why not actually try to enact policies that help them so they'll want to vote for you, instead of trying to make them cease to exist and stop them from voting?

[Spidey]

Yea, Yea, Yea TC...everyone is a victim.

Two years ago, I was attacked on my very own block by two black teenagers playing the knockout game, I was walking down the street minding my own business heading to ShopRite, the teens were coming down the street in the other direction, I didn't pay any mind to them but after I passed the group, two of them turned around and attacked me from behind.

At the time I was on Plavix due to having 3 stents placed in my coronary arteries and could have bled to death. Fortunately, I remained on my feet and a passerby stopper her car and came to my aid. (a black woman) When my senses returned, they were down the street laughing their asses off.

I was attacked for no other reason than being elderly and white. So no. I'm not gay or a minority...etc...but I sure know what it is like to be a victim of hatred.

And if you are not repeating propaganda, why do you call it the "Don't say Gay" bill...that is not its name?

[Ferno]

Sorry to hear that happened to you Spidey, but that sounds more like you were a victim of a random attack instead of you being a target of a hate crime.

[Tunnelcat]

Damn Spidey, that horrible. I'm sorry that happened to you. You'll have to forgive me for my anger because some of my plight involves bigotry and stupidity from my own close family. Even my stepfather, who used to be a Democrat, is a latent homophobe that I never new anything about until he made a sickening bigoted comment one night when we went to a restaurant and were served by nice but a clearly gay young male. He knows nothing about me and for good reason now. Bastard.

And not necessarily Ferno. He's a white elderly man. I'm willing to bet if Spidey was black, they would've sought out a better and whiter target and left him alone given the current state of race relations in the U.S. There has also been a spate of recent assaults on Asian people as of late too. While the majority of the people doing the assaulting in the U.S. were white males, in San Fransico the majority of the assualters were Black males. In New York, most of the recent attacks that were caught on video were Black on Asian as well. But even that may be skewed by bias in news reporting. This report was in 2008, so it's been going on for a long time in San Fransico.

https://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/nevius/a ... 265760.php

In a more recent study in 2020, 157 of the Asian assault cases that were studied in the report below, 152 were committed by white Republican-aligned males after stigmatizing comments came from politicians, specifically the Trump White House and Republicans in Congress. I'm guessing the uptick was due to Covid blaming and Trump's foul mouth.

https://asamnews.com/2021/05/22/finding ... mmunities/

The report also analyzed what it identified as stigmatizing comments made by politicians. The authors identified 157 such incidents. In 152 of those incidents, the offender aligns with the Republican Party. Just under 50% came from the White House and 20% came from members of Congress.

And again, Republican politicians like DeSantis are reading from the hate playbook for political gain and power. What makes it worse for LGBTQ people is that the hate is backed and sanctified via religion as well as politics. Humans are too tribal for their own good.

https://floridaphoenix.com/2022/09/17/r ... americans/

[vision]

The OP does have some hyperbolic text, but it basically hits the mark, and was never meant to be a discussion on immigration.

Nothing in woddy's first post is true, not the way it's framed. At all.

...you should have a quick look at some of TC's posts, but no one ever says a word about those.

I've called he out on bad posts on may occasions. The truth is I don't ever read her posts because they are too long, rambling, and full of nonsense.

I was attacked for no other reason than being elderly and white. So no. I'm not gay or a minority...etc...but I sure know what it is like to be a victim of hatred.

I've lived in Chicago most of my life. I've been assaulted by black teenagers twice, and threatened with violence and/or death on numerous occasions from black folks ranging between 60+ down to probably about 12 years old. Yet, I somehow never became a racist, even though racism is pervasive in my white bubble. I'm a child of the Civil Rights Era and all that "leftist" ★■◆● in our culture from Black Power movies down to Sesame Street made me grow up right even in the face of my racist family. Bring in all the immigrants, from every country, even those that hate America. Immigration is great for the economy, essential actually if you know anything about economics. You have to rise above "fear of the other" to succeed as a culture and as a species.

[Spidey]

Is it racist and xenophobic to assume immigrants will vote with your perceived enemies against you?

No, but maybe a little paranoid.

It was callmeslick that was always talking about how the demographics would doom the Republican party, personally I don't subscribe to the idea that Hispanics have some genetic disposition to vote Democratic, especially if they immigrate from communist countries like the Cubans who do vote Republican.

But I don't even have a dog in that fight anymore.

[Vander]

After the 2012 election, the RNC did a post-mortem on what happened and made recommendations for the future. It basically laid out that the GOP needed to be more inclusive, and suggested backing immigration reform. 2016 hopefuls like Rubio and Cruz got out front on that, and paid the price for it when Trump joined the fight bringing blood and soil rhetoric that stirred the worst elements of the American right.

[Tunnelcat]

...you should have a quick look at some of TC's posts, but no one ever says a word about those.

I've called he out on bad posts on may occasions. The truth is I don't ever read her posts because they are too long, rambling, and full of nonsense.

Sorry about that guys. I do tend to ramble on, with vitriol sometimes. I'll tone it down.

Is it racist and xenophobic to assume immigrants will vote with your perceived enemies against you?

No, but maybe a little paranoid.

It was callmeslick that was always talking about how the demographics would doom the Republican party, personally I don't subscribe to the idea that Hispanics have some genetic disposition to vote Democratic, especially if they immigrate from communist countries like the Cubans who do vote Republican.

But I don't even have a dog in that fight anymore.

Yes, you're right about that. I've talked to many a Hispanic worker, sometimes politics creeps into the conversation and quite a few of them consider themselves Republicans. Some even liked Trump and were unapologetic about it. But a good friend of mine who's a Chinese immigrant and now an American citizen hates Trump, but is a staunch conservative because he's ex-military and owns an arsenal of guns.

[Ferno]

After the 2012 election, the RNC did a post-mortem on what happened and made recommendations for the future. It basically laid out that the GOP needed to be more inclusive, and suggested backing immigration reform. 2016 hopefuls like Rubio and Cruz got out front on that, and paid the price for it when Trump joined the fight bringing blood and soil rhetoric that stirred the worst elements of the American right.

And then we got to watch as both of them went full on trumpanzee QAnon batshit. The only fate that fits is both of them get forgotten.