Turn about fair play

[woodchip]

I'm wondering with the revelation that a Biden think tank possessed classified documents, when will we be seeing FBI Sturmtruppen invade Biden's home. I'm not holding my breath in anticipation.

[Krom]

Never, because it would piss you off.

Also because they wouldn't have to, nobody was even looking for classified documents in this case, when they found some they immediately contacted the archives and handed them over at the first opportunity. Trump had almost a year worth of the archives asking nicely to turn over the classified documents both they and Trump knew he was in possession of before they stopped asking nicely and sent the FBI in to collect them by force.

[Ferno]

[Tunnelcat]

I was wondering how long it would take for you to come here with your false indignation about this one. Yes, Biden shouldn't have had those documents in his possession and the Justice Department started an investigation into the matter with a Trump appointed judge running the show. We'll see what eventually comes out of this one and if Biden pays a price. However, there's a BIG difference in the reactions of the 2 presidents and their lawyers. In Biden's case, his lawyers discovered the few documents stored in a LOCKED CLOSET and immediately notified the the Government Archives of the find and turned them over without any drama or question. Yes, Biden screwed up and should explain as to why those documents were not already in the Archives, documents apparently unknown to them as well.

In Trump's case, he hauled off tens of BOXES of documents and stored them in his private residence in a room ANYONE under the sun could access. Trump also fought the Archives REPEATED requests that those documents be returned time an time again, claiming ownership like a 2 year old crying: "They're all mine and you can't have them". So that's why a subpoena was issued and the FBI got involved, raiding Trump's home to retrieve them and return them to the Archives, clearly obstruction of an investigation. On top of that, Trump had his own lawyers LIE to Federal authorities and the Archives that ALL documents in question had already been turned over, WHEN IN FACT THEY HADN'T. Also, the Archives still can't find ALL the classified documents from the Trump presidency to this day, so technically, he's STILL obstructing the active investigation over his removal of classified documents from the government. Why do they think that? Some of those marked folders in Trump's possession were actually EMPTY of any documents, and believe he may have SOLD them to the highest bidder.

https://www.newsweek.com/trump-may-have ... er-1739646

Trump's lawyers found even more classified documents stashed in a storage facility of all places. Woody, there is NO comparison between what Trump did and what Biden did, so far. Trump is the document mishandling KING.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/202 ... ents-found

Oh, and why didn't the GOP perform a damage assessment of all the classified documents Trump took home and never bothered to secure or perhaps may have sold to the highest bidder? There was nary a whisper about it before this episode with Biden, only a constant and still ongoing vilification and blame casting of the FBI and DOJ, not the actual thief himself, Heir Trump.

https://news.yahoo.com/gop-requests-int ... 11060.html

[woodchip]

Lets see TC, in Trumps case there were secret service agents guarding the place and the security there was infinitely higher than Biden's documents. Locked closet stored with no security agents around where any chi-com agent could access them. And when Biden grabbed them he was only a vp and not POSTUS. Just to remind you and et al that a pres. can de-classify what ever the hell he wants. and in Bidens case, the National Security Act says you may not posses classified documents no matter what your stated intentions are. Neither does it say anything about number of documents. Interesting you and Ferno are thinking it is a number issue as that is what the libs are pushing.

[woodchip]

Never, because it would piss you off.

Also because they wouldn't have to, nobody was even looking for classified documents in this case, when they found some they immediately contacted the archives and handed them over at the first opportunity. Trump had almost a year worth of the archives asking nicely to turn over the classified documents both they and Trump knew he was in possession of before they stopped asking nicely and sent the FBI in to collect them by force.

Even more reasons the feds should raid Bidens other residences to see what he may have stashed there.

[Spidey]

You do have to admire how fast the media gets it spin machine into high gear.

"It's completely different"

Except for the fact that classified docs were taken from the white house.

[vision]

"It's completely different"

There are some pretty important differences, but on the most basic level Biden should face impeachment, a fine, jail time, all three. I don't play favorites. ★■◆● Biden and Trump.

[vision]

chi-com agent

This is some of the strangest thinking. Wacko red-scare stuff. Really wacko.

[Vander]

Context isn't spin.

As I said about the Trump situation, I'd cut him slack on "accidentally" retaining things. And the government did cut him some slack. It didn't need to escalate like it did.

[Tunnelcat]

Lets see TC, in Trumps case there were secret service agents guarding the place and the security there was infinitely higher than Biden's documents. Locked closet stored with no security agents around where any chi-com agent could access them. And when Biden grabbed them he was only a vp and not POSTUS. Just to remind you and et al that a pres. can de-classify what ever the hell he wants. and in Bidens case, the National Security Act says you may not posses classified documents no matter what your stated intentions are. Neither does it say anything about number of documents. Interesting you and Ferno are thinking it is a number issue as that is what the libs are pushing.

POTUS can certainly declassify anything he wants, but not by JUST THINKING ABOUT IT. He never went through the approved process and besides, being POTUS is not being God. POTUS must follow the rules, as should Biden. If Biden took docs without permission, IMO BOTH of these men should face punishment so future precedence is set. So if you want your pound of flesh with Biden, Trump must fall too.

As for storage, having the Secret Service around doesn't stop the random guest or employee from sniffing through Trump's poor attempt at secure doc storage in an unlocked pool storage locker of all places.

https://www.rawstory.com/trump-mar-a-la ... 658974475/

https://www.businessinsider.com/mar-a-l ... 22-12?op=1

And Trump was told his residence was not a secure location for classified docs 2 months before the FBI raided Mar a Lago and STILL the moron refused to turn over the docs. At least Biden turned his docs over without complaint or resistance.

https://www.newsweek.com/trump-knew-mar ... oj-1737475

[Spidey]

"Context isn't spin."

Context is the best spin there is when the goal is to use facts to divert attention away from other facts.

[Tunnelcat]

You know, they both violated the procedures for the handling of secret government documents when they left their previous prospective offices, so indict both and uphold the law. It just happens that one president was more stupidly agregious about his thievery than the other, but that's now beside the point. But do realize that if Biden gets ousted as POTUS because he gets indicted, we get Harris as POTUS.

[Spidey]

Everything about Trump is more egregious...that's not a very high bar.

[Vander]

"Context isn't spin."

Context is the best spin there is when the goal is to use facts to divert attention away from other facts.

Do you feel that’s the case here? That the context differentiating the Biden situation and the Trump situation is an irrelevant distraction from the possibility the Biden may have mishandled documents? I haven’t followed too closely, but I’ve not seen anyone say it’s just fine. I guess it depends on the contents and the explanation, but it doesn’t seem to me to be some dire situation based on the available info.

And if we learned anything from Trump, it’s that Biden isn’t getting indicted for anything, even if this were to rise to that level. I wouldn’t be shocked if our new House moved to impeach, though. They don’t seem to be too concern with being self aware.

[Spidey]

Yes and yes...It's called [framing the narrative].

[Ferno]

The other thing we've learned, and this happened with their covid response is this:

They want to tell us what to do.

And...

They don't want to be told what to do.

[Tunnelcat]

Everything about Trump is more egregious...that's not a very high bar.

Unfortunately, a lot of the Republican Party is helping him hold that bar up and setting precedence for what's considered acceptable behavior. So they want to nail Biden to the wall for his document mishandling, they need to do the same with Trump. Personally, at the least, I hope this incident with Biden keeps him for running again for office in 2024. At the most, I hope he gets indicted right along with Trump and is removed from office and neither man can ever again run for office.

[Spidey]

Ooops...looks like somebody may have found some more docs.

[woodchip]

Another reason to raid Bidens other offices and residence's is that they found more classified document in another office. Raids may be the only way to find out the extent of classified documents he's squirreled away . And TC, I agree that if both of them mis-handled sensitive documents, then both need to pay a legal price. And yes I would not like to see Mini HaHa take over Biden's job though i Don't see that happening. I suspect preventing both from running in 24 would be the most to be expected. BTW, why in gods name did Biden ever choose Harris as a running mate?

[Vander]

Maybe Obama declassified them with his mind and didn't tell anyone. Did you ever think of that?

[woodchip]

I was kinda thinking that who ever in the Clinton WH that disappeared those FBI files and then made them reappear might of be doing this.

[Ferno]

Need a fuckin' warrant, clownshoes.

[woodchip]

So get a search warrant.

[Ferno]

And they'll use the exact same standards for when they served Trump with his warrant.

[Tunnelcat]

Well, even MORE documents have been found, in Biden's garage of all places, the old doofus. If the DOJ doesn't appoint a special counsel, then we'll know the system is favoring Biden, because he's as guilty as Trump right now and needs to pay the price. He should also keep his trap shut about how his indiscretion isn't as bad as Trump's, because it IS, whether Biden is cooperating or not at this point. He was just as careless. They want to indict Trump, they better indict Biden as well.

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/classif ... d=96390141

[woodchip]

And they'll use the exact same standards for when they served Trump with his warrant.

If the Rep. hadn't taken control of congress do you believe this would be true? Also who bears the responsibility for withholding the first batch since they were discovered prior to the mid terms. Again we have the holding back of info that may affect a election. We also have released info from twitter that the FBI was intimidating them to suppress certain info.

[Tunnelcat]

Every election fraud claim that went before a whole bunch of different federal courts, 50 of them, CAME TO THE SAME CONCLUSION, no basis in fact! It had nothing to do with a Dem controlled government, other than all the impeachments that Trump got, which he deserved IMO. Trump LOST the election because he's a jackass who couldn't keep his foul leftie bashing trap shut and alienated a whole bunch of independent voters who voted his 2 year-old brain out of office. You know, those voters that Republicans NEED to win because there's no way in hell there's enough Republicans in this country to get anyone from that party elected to national office?

https://www.factcheck.org/2020/12/nine- ... -credible/

https://www.forbes.com/sites/alisondurk ... -lawsuits/

https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-fact ... SKBN2AF1G1

Even SCOTUS declined an election fraud case, so get off your election conspiracy high horse and accept that TRUMP LOST FAIR AND SQUARE.

https://www.cnn.com/2023/01/09/politics ... index.html

[Tunnelcat]

Here's what's probably going to happen. Both Biden and Trump improperly took classified top secret documents away from the government. That much is fact. But here's where Trump is in trouble. He has been obstructing the investigation into his mishandling of the files, even claiming he owns them outright, which is false. The FBI had to raid his home to retrieve them. Biden has been cooperating with the investigation and has willingly turned over everything that's been found. So obstruction is what may eventually nail Trump yet again. It's always the LIE that nails people, not the original wrongdoing.

[Darth Wang]

Here's what's probably going to happen. Both Biden and Trump improperly took classified top secret documents away from the government. That much is fact. But here's where Trump is in trouble. He has been obstructing the investigation into his mishandling of the files, even claiming he owns them outright, which is false. The FBI had to raid his home to retrieve them. Biden has been cooperating with the investigation and has willingly turned over everything that's been found. So obstruction is what may eventually nail Trump yet again. It's always the LIE that nails people, not the original wrongdoing.

Yeah but apparently Trump can just magically declassify everything he wants to keep so he can't get in trouble for it, but I guess Biden can't do the same for some reason.

[woodchip]

Every election fraud claim that went before a whole bunch of different federal courts, 50 of them, CAME TO THE SAME CONCLUSION, no basis in fact! It had nothing to do with a Dem controlled government, other than all the impeachments that Trump got, which he deserved IMO. Trump LOST the election because he's a jackass who couldn't keep his foul leftie bashing trap shut and alienated a whole bunch of independent voters who voted his 2 year-old brain out of office. You know, those voters that Republicans NEED to win because there's no way in hell there's enough Republicans in this country to get anyone from that party elected to national office?

https://www.factcheck.org/2020/12/nine- ... -credible/

https://www.forbes.com/sites/alisondurk ... -lawsuits/

https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-fact ... SKBN2AF1G1

Even SCOTUS declined an election fraud case, so get off your election conspiracy high horse and accept that TRUMP LOST FAIR AND SQUARE.

https://www.cnn.com/2023/01/09/politics ... index.html

TC you still are focusing on the wrong subject. If Hunters laptop would of been reported on when it happened 15% of voter would of changed their vote:
https://thepostmillennial.com/flashback ... den-voters

https://nypost.com/2022/08/26/2020-elec ... rage-poll/

So once you stop listening to news source that are trying to deflect your attention you'll be a much better poster

[woodchip]

And Darth pushing leftist info. Biden was not the president when he stole the documents. So he doesn't even have the "Wave your magic twangger froggy " excuse.

[Tunnelcat]

TC you still are focusing on the wrong subject. If Hunters laptop would of been reported on when it happened 15% of voter would of changed their vote:

https://thepostmillennial.com/flashback ... den-voters

https://nypost.com/2022/08/26/2020-elec ... rage-poll/

So once you stop listening to news source that are trying to deflect your attention you'll be a much better poster

Right wing sources. Yes, the laptop is real, but any information post April 2019 is most certainly fabricated data, not original to Hunter's use. The FBI also has ownership of said laptop as well. Your idea that 16% of voters would've changed their vote if they'd known about the contents is fantasy. But assuming that the contents weren't made up and are pre-4/2019, I really don't care. We all know Hunter was a drunken drugged up businessman and Biden's bad seed son who had dealings with Ukraine and China and maybe got his father involved. So what? I bet you could find any number of the current members of Congress, from either party, just as corrupt if you dug into their personal business practices. Why do you think they keep avoiding or voting down that nice little law some congress members keep bringing up for a vote that's supposed to outlaw them from profiting off of stock trades while they're in office? STILL not a law.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/hunter-bid ... -analysis/

But understand this. Even if part or all of the Hunter Biden data showed that he was the crookedest man on earth, I STILL would've have voted AGAINST Trump by voting for Biden because I'm a NEVER TRUMPER, period. There's A LOT of never Trumpers out there with the same views. Biden and his son may be corrupt as hell, but they're not anywhere as dangerous as that despot kindergartner Trump. Biden is just another corrupt old line Democrat who will leave office like he's supposed to once he's voted out. Trump is autocrat who craves power and adulation who actually refused to leave office after he legally lost the election and tried a little white supremacist insurrection tactic on Jan. 6th to remain there. I'd say an old line corrupt Dem is a hold-your-nose better alternative than a narcissistic egomaniac Republican who craves absolute rule just to enrich himself and get a massive hard on while doing it, AT EVERYONE ELSE'S EXPENSE.

Oh, and he's an EXPERT on hairspray and hates the product now since the removal of CFC's. So that proves he's narcissistic as hell and would rather make sure his precious coif is gorgeous for longer than 12 minutes instead of protecting the planet's ozone layer. He's so stupid he believes none of the air ever leaves the inside of his apartment.

Give me a little spray. … You know you’re not allowed to use hairspray anymore because it affects the ozone, you know that, right? I said, you mean to tell me, cause you know hairspray’s not like it used to be, it used to be real good. … Today you put the hairspray on, it’s good for 12 minutes, right. … So if I take hairspray and I spray it in my apartment, which is all sealed, you’re telling me that affects the ozone layer? “Yes.” I say no way folks. No way. No way. That’s like a lot of the rules and regulations you people have in the mines, right, it’s the same kind of stuff.

https://www.factcheck.org/2016/05/trump ... and-ozone/

And Darth pushing leftist info. Biden was not the president when he stole the documents. So he doesn't even have the "Wave your magic twangger froggy " excuse.

We KNOW Biden was VP and didn't have the power to declassify. So what the hell is your point? So you think because Trump THOUGHT he had that right to take what he wanted makes it OK in his case? No it does NOT. You DO KNOW that even though Trump HAD that power, HE DID NOT DECLASSIFY ANYTHING HE TOOK and no, he can't do that by just magically thinking about it AFTER THE FACT. Whether you like it or not woody, he NEVER went through the proper procedures to declassify what he took from the government, period.

[Tunnelcat]

Ok woody, since you're on a row about Hunter Biden, Chuck Todd reminded me about this little dirty family deal involving Trump's son in law, Jared Kirshner. Ol' Ron Johnson was all indignant about the circumstances around the Hunter Biden scandal, claiming unfairness and bias from the FBI and the Justice Department. Well, then Todd then asked him about Jared Kirshner and HIS attempt to secure a large loan from the Quataris and what transpired when he was rebuffed. Trump and crew used the power of the United States to create a Middle East neighbor fight. Nada from Johnson either except some stammering. Only NOW is this whole mess getting worked out too.

Got any comment? What essentially transpired was that Kirshner and Trump fomented a Middle East rift between the Quataris and their neighbors using the clout of OUR government, which appears to be nothing but revenge for not giving that little priss Kirshner a big loan to bail out a debt ridden shitball piece of real estate in NY that had the evil address of 666 Fifth Ave. The Dems never investigated this one either, although they complained about it at the time. Of course, this revelation fell on Republican and Justice Deptartment deaf ears under Trump. No one's investigated this or proved it, but where there's smoke, there's fire. The Quataris were understandably upset when they eventually found out what their little loan was going to be used for IF they'd approved it. Where's your outrage over this woody?

https://theintercept.com/2018/03/02/jar ... -blockade/

https://www.justsecurity.org/69094/time ... se-policy/

[Ferno]

Now I'm just waiting on Woody to start hollering "They found more documents! You leftists must be so mad!"

We don't give a ★■◆●. The FBI did their job. Like they did with trump. But the right was screaming about how the FBI was a tool by the left then. And now? Silence.

[Top Gun]

That's because they can't imagine any other way of existing beyond pathetic worship of human garbage and infinite hypocrisy.

[Tunnelcat]

Biden consented to allowing the FBI to search his home just recently, so don't ★■◆● anymore about the FBI woody. Trump's home had to be raided since he refused to turn anything over like the little petulant child he is. Of course, they DID find more docs in Biden's home as well. But what's interesting is that they found docs from the time when Biden was a senator. So with that, does every member of congress now need to be suspected of taking classified docs home too? How about the 3 remaining living presidents, both the Clinton's since Hillary was Sec State, Bush and perhaps Carter? How pervasive is this problem? It's well known that Johnson removed some personally damaging classified docs when he left office, docs that would have shown just how bad the Vietnam War had been prosecuted under his presidency.

[TheWhat]

Ya know it’s this same ole tit for tat crap that isn’t solving anything. We ALL agree that classified documents shouldn’t be laying around unsecured locations - it doesn’t matter if the culprit has an elephant’s trunk or a donkey’s dick - secure the ship, like NOW.

Arguing back and forth is not solving the problem.

[Tunnelcat]

I was not illegal until after 1978 to take presidential or VP records home, destroy them or flush them down the toilet like Trump did. That DOES NOT include classified documents, which were and are required to remain property of the government until they're declassified first by the president. It was made illegal to remove any presidential records all because of what LBJ and Nixon did or tried to do with their records. In LBJ's case, they mostly dealt with the Vietnam War. In Nixon's case, it had to do with those incriminating recordings. Both Trump and Biden violated the PRA requirement, period. Neither man should be eligible to run for the office of president ever again IMO.

https://www.factcheck.org/2022/02/forme ... l-records/

https://www.archives.gov/presidential-l ... 8-act.html

[Tunnelcat]

Oopsie.

https://www.cnn.com/2023/01/24/politics ... index.html