Mainstream media are reliable, FOX news is the bad guy?

[Burlyman]

How about they're all bad except some alternative media?

Discuss.

[Spidey]

There is no "proper reliable" media of any kind, there never was.

[Kilarin]

I find https://www.allsides.com/unbiased-balanced-news to be a very valuable tool

[Spidey]

Other than the categorized gimmick that site has all of the same stories from the same outlets that you can find on any news feed.

[vision]

Other than the categorized gimmick that site has all of the same stories from the same outlets that you can find on any news feed.

You're missing the point. Tools like this (See also: Ground News) make it harder to accidentally eat fake news. Your earlier statement of 'no "proper reliable" media of any kind' is typically vague and contrarian from you, but fails to consider that some sources are absolutely more reliable than others, those others usually being straight-up propaganda. I use Ground News when I want to learn more about a headline I read somewhere else because I can pick a less biased source, and if there are no centrist sources I simply ignore the story as propaganda.

[Tunnelcat]

Burlyman's forgetting that Fox News KNEW they were reporting outright lies and continued to do in violation of any journalism ethics, all to appease their MAGA base and keep the profits rolling in. Internal emails revealed all their dirty secrets thanks to Dominion and their lawsuit. The other mainstream network news outlets rake in their cash from Big Pharma ads, so I refuse to watch what they peddle as well.

[Kilarin]

You're missing the point. Tools like this (See also: Ground News) make it harder to accidentally eat fake news.

Exactly. The Internet was supposed to give us broad perspectives. Boy was that prediction wrong.
Instead, the internet locks everyone into a Silo, blocking out anything you might find objectionable, and feeding you more and more of what it thinks you like.
It's like inbreeding. And this is a worse problem now than it was when I was young. Conservatives, and Liberals both can be completely unaware of the other sides point of view. And you KNOW that neither side is 100% right. And even when you ARE right, it's important to understand the other sides view. Otherwise, you can't really communicate with them at all.
And that is where we are now, and I strongly suspect it is leading us towards a civil war.

I find AllSides quite useful for helping me realize what other points of view are saying. And to recognize the bias, not JUST in the opposition, but in the articles I liked.
I thought it was absolutely fascinating that when AllSides was reporting on the Rittenhouse story, they pointed out how the Stories from the right were obviously emphasizing certain facts, and not reporting on other facts, in order to support their point of view.
Then they pointed out how the left was emphasizing certain facts, and not reporting on other facts, in order to support their point of view.
All that I was expecting.
But THEN they went on to point out how the news outlets that are rated as being Center in their point of view, were ALSO emphasizing certain facts and not reporting on other facts, in order to support their point of view.
We tend to think "CENTER" means fair and balanced. But even those in the "Center" have a point of view, and report according to it.

So it's very important to make the effort to break out of the silo. To hear the same story as told by people who have different perspectives than yours. You might find out you were wrong on some points. You might find out the other side, even if you don't agree with them, has some points worth discussing. You might find out the other side is lying. You might find out your own side is lying.

We are locked in silos. If you don't break out of the silo, we have no chance of learning whether what we believe is right or not.

[Krom]

Attacking the mainstream media also makes it easier to poison the well of information and get away with evil. Which is why the first step towards destabilizing or overthrowing a country in order to install a dictatorship involves attacking and then shutting down the free press.

[Tunnelcat]

You do realize that people actively look for and choose their own silos and stick with them for news because it makes them feel better and vindicated about their own tribalistic world views? Seeing news outside their silos that goes against their beliefs or views and makes them uncomfortable is usually avoided, even if it's the truth, because most people lack the critical thinking to look outside their silos without sucoming to cognitive dissonance.

[Ferno]

You're missing the point. Tools like this (See also: Ground News) make it harder to accidentally eat fake news.

Exactly. The Internet was supposed to give us broad perspectives. Boy was that prediction wrong.
Instead, the internet locks everyone into a Silo, blocking out anything you might find objectionable, and feeding you more and more of what it thinks you like.
It's like inbreeding. And this is a worse problem now than it was when I was young. Conservatives, and Liberals both can be completely unaware of the other sides point of view. And you KNOW that neither side is 100% right. And even when you ARE right, it's important to understand the other sides view. Otherwise, you can't really communicate with them at all.
And that is where we are now, and I strongly suspect it is leading us towards a civil war.

I find AllSides quite useful for helping me realize what other points of view are saying. And to recognize the bias, not JUST in the opposition, but in the articles I liked.
I thought it was absolutely fascinating that when AllSides was reporting on the Rittenhouse story, they pointed out how the Stories from the right were obviously emphasizing certain facts, and not reporting on other facts, in order to support their point of view.
Then they pointed out how the left was emphasizing certain facts, and not reporting on other facts, in order to support their point of view.
All that I was expecting.
But THEN they went on to point out how the news outlets that are rated as being Center in their point of view, were ALSO emphasizing certain facts and not reporting on other facts, in order to support their point of view.
We tend to think "CENTER" means fair and balanced. But even those in the "Center" have a point of view, and report according to it.

So it's very important to make the effort to break out of the silo. To hear the same story as told by people who have different perspectives than yours. You might find out you were wrong on some points. You might find out the other side, even if you don't agree with them, has some points worth discussing. You might find out the other side is lying. You might find out your own side is lying.

We are locked in silos. If you don't break out of the silo, we have no chance of learning whether what we believe is right or not.

And for a time it did. Until the advent of social media and its' engagement algorithm. Keep users interested in the stuff they want to see, or more accurately, what they think they want to see, keep repeating the same stuff over and over again while feeding them ads, and now you have what you describe.

If it wasn't for MySpace, and everyone who followed in their footsteps, we wouldn't be in this mess.

[Kilarin]

You do realize that people actively look for and choose their own silos and stick with them for news because it makes them feel better and vindicated about their own tribalistic world views?

Absolutely, that is why it works so well. It reinforces a natural human behavior.

And for a time it did. Until the advent of social media and its' engagement algorithm.

This is mostly true, but it's also true that even the search algorithms are using similar methods for delivering what they think you want. The same is true for the sites that deliver news. So I think we would have still ended up going in this direction even without social media. Just not nearly as quickly or as thoroughly.

[Tunnelcat]

So, we stick to our silos and then build walls around them to fortify our positions. So what we're now doing is hardening our silos into protective forts with embattlements instead of sitting down like intelligent beings who should be talking and working things out in compromise. How long before we start shooting at each other's silo forts to see who's king turd of ★■◆● mountain?

[Ferno]

There was once a time when we used to be able to go "well, I might not agree with your perspective, but it is your perspective to have". Not anymore. Now it's become "my perspective helps people to be people. To live out their lives. And your perspective is the annihilation of people you don't like. We don't have a difference of opinion anymore, but a fundamental divide on what is morally just."