Gay Nay

[Ferno]

So if they're truly against genocide, why on earth would they stick around in a protest march where others in the same group start mocking them or destroying their flag instead of sticking with protesting Palestinian genocide

Because they're truly against genocide?

I certainly wouldn't feel welcome and would get the hell out of there if my "supposed compatriots" were being bigoted towards me.

You're here calling them antisemites! I don't know about the "start mocking them or destroying their flag" bit, seems pretty specific but I haven't seen details, but I'd guess the harassed trans protestors probably wouldn't want them destroyed and ethnically cleansed either!

Right? It's starting to sound like a new conspiracy theory: "the trans protestors are really anti-Semites!".

[Vander]

War

Meh. A war to what end? Israel has been pretty clear through words and actions (not just since Oct 7) that their intent is to exclude, dislodge, and dissolve Palestine/Palestinians as any kind of going concern, to consolidate total material and political control of the territory for their religious ethno-state.

[vision]

It can be both war and genocide, these aren't mutually exclusive. And I see a lot of right-wingers say because the population of Palestinians is increasing it "can't be genocide" which is absolutely stupid because genocide is not just the raw numbers of a population, but erasing their land, culture, and identity. It's a type of political violence. And in this regard, Israel is absolutely committing genocide.

[Darth Wang]

So if they're truly against genocide, why on earth would they stick around in a protest march where others in the same group start mocking them or destroying their flag instead of sticking with protesting Palestinian genocide

Because they're truly against genocide?

I certainly wouldn't feel welcome and would get the hell out of there if my "supposed compatriots" were being bigoted towards me.

You're here calling them antisemites! I don't know about the "start mocking them or destroying their flag" bit, seems pretty specific but I haven't seen details, but I'd guess the harassed trans protestors probably wouldn't want them destroyed and ethnically cleansed either!

Right? It's starting to sound like a new conspiracy theory: "the trans protestors are really anti-Semites!".

What about all of the Jews and even Israelis who are against Israel's actions? Are they anti-Semites too?

[Tunnelcat]

Can't some LQBTQ people be antisemitic? Blacks, Asians and other races have all been guilty of it, so it's a universal sickness. Ye, aka Kanye West, is a big one, who's not shy and very vocal about his hatred of the Jews. Why frankly, I don't know. Maybe he's mentally ill or a vile person, you tell me. You'd think that victims of hate would be more sympathetic towards others who are victims of hate, but that's not always the case, is it? Tribalism can be illogical and sometimes trumps compassion. As for those trans people joining in the Palestinian protests, sure, many of them are against genocide and are true protestors. I'm against genocide. It's pointless and only makes more terrorists and kills innocents. But the dirty little secret is, some LGBTQ people are probably antisemitic. Personally, I'm not, but I wouldn't march with them when any "supposed" fellow protestors can't seem put aside their own bigotry and hatred of people like me. So I'm not going to stand with them in a protest march and take abuse, no matter who they're marching in support for, period. In fact, I'd probably get royally ticked off and start a big fight just to feel good about kicking some bigot's ass.

[Ferno]

So that's the answer to the question of "trans people are antisemitic". Because that's how you feel. No supporting evidence, no statistics. Just how you feel and you just don't like them.

Good to know. It's getting harder and harder to think you're not edging closer to right-wing mentality.

[Darth Wang]

Sure, some of them could be. But you're claiming that it's a major part of the motivation for those protests.

[Vander]

But the dirty little secret is, some LGBTQ people are probably antisemitic.

No doubt. There's nothing special that prevents them from being susceptible the same weird biases and prejudices as everyone else.

Personally, I'm not, but I wouldn't march with them when any "supposed" fellow protestors can't seem put aside their own bigotry and hatred of people like me.

Are you talking about a specific event? Or just generalizing.

[Tunnelcat]

Ferno, I'm guessing that the antisemitism percentages of trans people runs about the same in straight people, but since the population of trans people is far less than straights, it's less just by pure numbers. But I haven't actually gone out and taken a poll of your average LGBTQ pro-Palestinian protestor, not that most people would answer truthfully if asked anyway.

Vander, NO on specific events. Just generalizing.

But this interaction between an antifa protestor and some Muslim women at a London pro-Palestinian protest should give you an idea of the anti-LGBTQ bias on the Muslim protestors side. You know he was there just to stir up trouble, but the insults thrown back at him by the Muslim women is telling.

https://nypost.com/2023/11/06/news/anti ... s-collide/

[Vander]

Vander, NO on specific events. Just generalizing.

Then yeah, I think you're wrong to call trans protestors in general antisemitic.

[Ferno]

Ferno, I'm guessing that the antisemitism percentages of trans people runs about the same in straight people, but since the population of trans people is far less than straights, it's less just by pure numbers. But I haven't actually gone out and taken a poll of your average LGBTQ pro-Palestinian protestor, not that most people would answer truthfully if asked anyway.

Then it makes no logical sense and it's inhumane to paint them as antisemitic.

[Isaac]

At some point we should just change the E&C to "what was on fox news this week".


Me returning to this forum:

[TheWhat]

At some point we should just change the E&C to "what was on fox news this week".

I thought Fox News became the sellouts after the goal posts had been moved again

[Tunnelcat]

Vander, NO on specific events. Just generalizing.

Then yeah, I think you're wrong to call trans protestors in general antisemitic.

You misunderstand. I'm generalizing that the rate of antisemitism in the LGBTQ community probably runs about the same as with any other group of people. Some are genuine with their concerns about the Palestinians and some are probably antisemites. Theyre pretty much strange bedfellows. Personally, I think their compassion is misplaced by supporting a population of people who are antisemites themselves and would be willing to call for the death of any Jews as well as LGBTQ people if they walked within Gaza's borders.

[Vander]

Yeah, and I’m saying objecting to the destruction of people who might hate you doesn't require antisemitism as an explanation. Simple humanity will suffice.

[Ferno]

[Tunnelcat]

Yeah, and I’m saying objecting to the destruction of people who might hate you doesn't require antisemitism as an explanation. Simple humanity will suffice.

And I'm saying there are more antisemites out in this country that you care to acknowledge. Anyone can harbor it and anyone can use some other reason to hide that hate by expressing it in some other form as a mask.

Nobody in that region likes the Jews and nobody likes the Palestinians. But the Palestinians are Iran's convenient proxy to go after their hated enemy, the Jews. If we in the U.S. seem to support the Palestinians so much and hate genocide, let them move here, where apparently far more people here like them than in their home territory. But I'm willing to bet that there would be a giant uproar and backlash from the very people protesting and supporting them here.

MLK may have his heart in the right place, but even giving the Palestinians full control over their territories to make peace will never happen. Every surrounding Muslim nation wants Israel gone. That hate ain't ever going away. It's taught to their kids and their kid's kids. It's built in generational hate for hate's sake.

[Darth Wang]

If we in the U.S. seem to support the Palestinians so much and hate genocide, let them move here, where apparently far more people here like them than in their home territory. But I'm willing to bet that there would be a giant uproar and backlash from the very people protesting and supporting them here.

Because

A. It's totally practical to transport 2 million people across the ocean like that

B. They would all be willing to abandon their ancestral homes and trust a country that has been the strongest ally of Israel historically

C. We have the infrastructure to support that

D. Xenophobic right-wingers wouldn't object to this louder than anyone else

[Spidey]

Yea, just what we need...2+ million people who hate Jews and America.

Let Iran take them...no wait, they really don't give a ★■◆● about Palestinians they just hate the Jews.

Nobody over there wants to take them in because then they wouldn't have anything to ★■◆● about.

[Vander]

And I'm saying there are more antisemites out in this country that you care to acknowledge.

I make no claim on how much antisemitism there is in this country. I'm not even sure how you'd quantify it with any accuracy. I certainly don't think there's anything special about trans people that makes them less susceptible to biases and prejudices than anyone else. I'd even say that protests against Israel are more likely to draw out a higher percentage of antisemites. But I think if you're going to charge people with antisemitism you should back it up. You claimed trans protestors (specifically) must be motivated by antisemitism because everyone (Palestinians, other protestors) hates them. Opposition to death and destruction, the actual protest subject, isn't a motivation worth considering. Can you see why that reasoning would be questioned?

[vision]

...let them move here...

Do you ever think deeply about the things you say? Palestinians are a displaced people, that's what the whole conflict is about. You want them to be displaced further?

I can't even...

[Tunnelcat]

I'm pointing out the facts. People in this country can support any displaced peoples they like, but protesting doesn't solve the problem. At one time, the Jews were all displaced too and we and the Brits gave them their home. Now they have their home, but the original Palestinians are being displaced to expand it. Since there is so much hatred between the Jews, the Palestinians and every Muslim country surrounding the entire State of Israel, I'm saying there is no solution but war and death, which seems to be the human de-facto solution for taking land, by force. Protesting won't fix that metric, so what's the point? No country wants them. No one who is protesting their genocide here in the states or Europe really wants millions to immigrate here or there. Iran is using them to kill Jews but doesn't want them. Lebanon, Syria, Egypt and Iraq doesn't want them. The Jews are killing them in retribution because they killed Jews first. So either the Jews move or the Palestinians move to survive, or one side wipes out the other side. That's the cold hard truth repeated over and over in human history.

[Spidey]

I say bring over the Jews...we can give them New Jersey...we don't need it anyway.

[vision]

Protesting won't fix that metric, so what's the point?

The protests are worldwide and support for Israel is dropping like a rock so I'd say the protests are working as expected.

[Tunnelcat]

To what end? Back to the status quo, where the Israelis keep the Palestinians bottled up in Gaza and the West Bank, where a repressed people will still hate the Jews (now even more) and still support a terrorist organization like Hamas who'll now exact revenge for their current situation AND the deaths of thousands during this war? Nothing has changed. Iran will still support their Jew hating proxies and the killing will continue on both sides unabated. People can support the Palestinians all they want, but it's going to come down to who gets to keep that land, the Israelis or the Palestinians and how many are going to die just to keep it in the future. I see no compromise in the near future at all.

[vision]

To what end?

A two-state solution that recognizes the 1967 borders, which is where the peace process left off before Israel's right wing decided to invest in Hamas. It's a good a starting point as any. This would signal that Israel wants to be a good neighbor and that would go a long way toward calming the region down. Promoting a recognized Palestinian state with strong coalition government would tamp down terrorism quite a bit.

[Spidey]

The two-state solution is not viable.

Everyone in the world wants a two-state solution except the two parties involved.

The Palestinian's don't want it because they want their entire land back.

The Israelis don't want it because they know in some amount of time they will have Iran at their front door in the form of a Palestinian state having a real military that could make the 7th look like a picnic.

It doesn't matter what "we" want, it matters what "they" want.

Let's face it...they both want the others GONE.

[Darth Wang]

[Spidey]

Well in that case a lot of protesters must not be aware of all of the human rights violations & genocides occurring all over the globe.

And it's a guarantee that many of those protesting wouldn't give a rats ass if it were Jews that were on the receiving end.

guaran fuckin teed!

If fact...many of them would probably celebrate.

[Darth Wang]

Well in that case a lot of protesters must not be aware of all of the human rights violations & genocides occurring all over the globe.

And it's a guarantee that many of those protesting wouldn't give a rats ass if it were Jews that were on the receiving end.

guaran fuckin teed!

If fact...many of them would probably celebrate.

I'm sure you know better than someone who knows them personally.

[Tunnelcat]

One thing is for certain vison. There will be no 2 state solution for the Palestinians as long as the extreme right wing warmonger Netanyahu remains in power. He's already told Biden to go to hell. The Israeli president, Isaac Herzog, is also being looked at for war crimes charges as he's currently sits at the World Economic Forum in Davos trying to convince everyone that Israel has NOT committed war crimes. Uh huh.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/live ... rcna134660

[Spidey]

Well in that case a lot of protesters must not be aware of all of the human rights violations & genocides occurring all over the globe.

And it's a guarantee that many of those protesting wouldn't give a rats ass if it were Jews that were on the receiving end.

guaran fuckin teed!

If fact...many of them would probably celebrate.

I'm sure you know better than someone who knows them personally.

Don't be coy, he is using the protesters he knows as a representative sample of the protesters in general, so my comment was on the protesters in general.

[Darth Wang]

And what evidence do you have to support that 'the protesters in general' are antisemitic?

[Spidey]

None, because I never said that.

I used the term "many" and I would guess that the ones who would celebrate if the Jews were on the receiving end are the ones using the phrase "from the river to the sea".

And the ones that were celebrating on 911.

[Ferno]

And the ones that were celebrating on 911.

I thought we debunked this pile of garbage years ago. But it looks like we're doing that all over again.

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/false-footaging/

[Spidey]

Did you even bother to read that link?

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/false-footaging/

Also note that I never specified Palestinians, there are far more groups that hate America and I'm sure many of them are among the protesters.

[Neo]

This post has been removed for violating the DBB's rules. -- Jeff250