The trend in modern operating systems.🕵️🖥️

[Isaac]

Not the point:
In 2022 I bought a new laptop and the first thing I did was try to experience the WIndows 10 OS it came with... however it wanted me to create a Microsoft account or some bull★■◆● so I wiped it and put something more Foss on it. (See link below)
I've installed Liniage OS on almost 3 phone already for people expecting them to want me to undo my modification to their phones. The only thing they ask me for is to do updates on apps that require manual updates by me. It's a very nice phone OS and unlike switching to Arch or Debian, you can run the same apps that a stock Android phone can run, meaning there's not real loss. The only crazy thing I do is patch youtube to run without the playstore installed.

/rant


It's 2024 and what the actual ★■◆● is going on. I use Windows at work and when I started it was Windows 7, which I thought was pretty nice. I'm on windows 11 and the amount of web content that shows up on the default settings should be illegal. You can switch it all off, but after updates it sometimes comes back on. But now

https://www.techradar.com/computing/sof ... ed-to-know
"Windows Recall has proven to be a highly controversial AI feature ever since it was first announced in May. What it does is it constantly takes screenshots of everything you do on your PC and then places the images into a searchable on-device database. And yes, that includes pictures displaying sensitive information. "
Bull ★■◆●! They're going to have popups saying "Please turn this feature on for a better experience". I guarantee you...

https://www.zdnet.com/article/apple-int ... will-work/
"But rather than (APPLE) unveiling a slew of flashy generative AI features to knock your socks off, Apple is expected to focus on incorporating AI into its apps to simplify users' daily tasks. And it'll categorize such features under the name "Apple Intelligence."
"Apple Intelligence focuses on broad-appeal AI features rather than advanced image and video generation. To do this, the company developed in-house AI models and partnered with OpenAI to power a chatbot that will work similarly to ChatGPT."
At least Window's Copilot is a thing that can be turned off. Apple's will just be hidden in the services stack, untouchable to anyone without root, which which will be everyone on iphone 18.

I could quote you on google, but what they do is almost old news and you've already heard it.

Can I take a second to plug one of my favorite Linux OSes?
https://endeavouros.com/
I love it so much. It's so well made. I recommend learning a bit about how to configure Firewalld, which comes standard on it. Also add Opensnitch as an outbound firewall, so you can tell apps "not today ★■◆●". And KDE has come such a long way. I used to be a hater, but it's now like cozy blanket.
/plug

The point:
There's no hope. There's no light a the end of this tunnel. The farther we go the faster we go and the darker it gets.

[Krom]

Yeah, just when you thought windows 11 defaults were already so bad they should be criminal, microsoft goes "hold my beer!" and announced recall.

[Tunnelcat]

CoPilot and Recall. It's almost like MS wants everyone to hate them and live with it. Screw the users, we own your computers now, bwuaaaahaaaahaaaahaaaa! They tried to shove CoPilot into Win 10 a couple of updates ago. I said WTF and promptly threw it in jail in a Group Policy edit. Recall will be disabled by any means possible, up to and including installing a tiny OS drive where there's not enough disc space for it to store anything and/orLinux if it comes down to it.

[TigerRaptor]

Windows - The OS that controls you - Long live Skynet !

I should boot back into Windows again. I heard Windows has SUDOKU support now, I mean SUDO.

[Isaac]

CoPilot and Recall. It's almost like MS wants everyone to hate them and live with it. Screw the users, we own your computers now, bwuaaaahaaaahaaaahaaaa! They tried to shove CoPilot into Win 10 a couple of updates ago. I said WTF and promptly threw it in jail in a Group Policy edit. Recall will be disabled by any means possible, up to and including installing a tiny OS drive where there's not enough disc space for it to store anything and/orLinux if it comes down to it.

FYI, a feature of modern Windows updates can delete your custom bootloader (GURB). And they're trying to make it more difficult to dual boot all together. I'm not familiar with the issues first-hand because I only run Linux on my personal stuff: I prefer the Linux headaches to the Windows ones.

[Isaac]

Yeah, just when you thought windows 11 defaults were already so bad they should be criminal, microsoft goes "hold my beer!" and announced recall.

They act like they have addressed the issue by not having it on by default. What they'll end up doing is probably copying Apple's full integration of the AI system so you can't actually pinpoint it as a single application. And they may disable recall, but the underlying AI system that calls back to the cloud could be a completely different system system service.

[Isaac]

Windows - The OS that controls you - Long live Skynet !

I should boot back into Windows again. I heard Windows has SUDOKU support now, I mean SUDO.

They make skynet look competent.

[Tunnelcat]

I wonder how long before Microsquish is sued again. This is ridiculous.

[Isaac]

I think they want more people to try linux...

[TigerRaptor]

If Microsoft continues to alter Windows hardware requirements (like the recent 24 H2 update), it will force more users to seek alternatives.

[CDN_Merlin]

When I bought a new custom PC in March, I bought a CD copy of Win 11. I put the CD in, booted and for whatever reason, it would not see my NIC was plugged in. Then I read that my system was too new for the version of Win 11 I had on CD. So I downloaded the file onto UDSB (From MS site) and started over. It only saw my wifi on my MB. installed Win 11, then it asked me for my hotmail acct. Didn't want to do this but had no choice to finally get into windows and install the ASUS MB software/drivers. Had to reinstall Win 11 3 times in total to bypass all the crap and not have to login using my hotmail account.

Pretty soon it will be a full on reqiurement to instlal windows with a hotmail account. Sucks

[Jeff250]

It's called enshittification. Once a company's product has reached its maximum market share, the only way for the company to make more money off that product is to increasingly squeeze the product's existing user base.

[Vander]

For setting up a new Windows 11 install, unplug the network cable. In Windows setup, before joining a WiFi network, press Shift + F10 (+ Fn if necessary) to open a Command Prompt. Type in: oobe\bypassnro then press Enter. The computer will reboot and restart Windows setup. When you get to the point of joining a network, you should have the option to Continue Without Internet. Doing this will allow you to setup a Local User Account instead of being forced to use a Microsoft Account. Once at the desktop, you can join WiFi or plug in the network cable.

If it’s Windows 11 Pro, you should also be able to bypass the Microsoft Account by choosing the option to Join a Local Active Directory Domain. (this lets you proceed to create a Local User Account with the expectation you’ll join a Domain once at the desktop, which you don’t need to do)

[Tunnelcat]

Recall has already been hacked, of course.

[Isaac]

Recall has already been hacked, of course.

<video>

So the hacking was just the user being able to access recall without an api. Not really malicious... Should be totally allowed especially if they're using sql. Microsoft reacts by saying they need extra "layers of data protection". If this isn't a clear case of "you don't own your windows machine" or "The user is the enemy" mindset at M$ I don't know a more clear example. If I was a Windows fan, I'd feel betrayed.

[CDN_Merlin]

For setting up a new Windows 11 install, unplug the network cable. In Windows setup, before joining a WiFi network, press Shift + F10 (+ Fn if necessary) to open a Command Prompt. Type in: oobe\bypassnro then press Enter. The computer will reboot and restart Windows setup. When you get to the point of joining a network, you should have the option to Continue Without Internet. Doing this will allow you to setup a Local User Account instead of being forced to use a Microsoft Account. Once at the desktop, you can join WiFi or plug in the network cable.

If it’s Windows 11 Pro, you should also be able to bypass the Microsoft Account by choosing the option to Join a Local Active Directory Domain. (this lets you proceed to create a Local User Account with the expectation you’ll join a Domain once at the desktop, which you don’t need to do)

This is exactly what I did to bypass the netowrk part and then somethin to bypass the account activation with Hotmail part.

[Isaac]

Yeah, I was going to say, remember those old cheat codes in games, like the konami code? Vander's Windows setup guide reminds me of that. "Bruh, when you start press ↑ ↑ ↓ ↓ ← → ← → B A START and you get infinite logins, bruh!!!!"

[Tunnelcat]

Vander or CDN_Merlin. Can you tell me the exact steps you took to bypass the Microsoft account creation and the Hotmail part when setting up Windows 11? I just received my new HP workstation with Win 11Pro and I want a local account AND absolutely no Hotmail account. When I upgrade my other 2 systems tp Win 11, I want to do the exact same. What a PITA.

[Tunnelcat]

Wow, Microsoft has been hard at work blocking all the ways to bypass setting up a local account, even through the command prompt. So far, this guy's method is the most recent way to set up a local account in Win 11. I don't know if Win 11Pro is any different, but I'm guessing not.

[Krom]

I used:
https://rufus.ie/en/
To make my install media automatically bypass the microsoft account requirement.

Steps of how to use it are below the command prompt method here:
https://www.tomshardware.com/how-to/ins ... ft-account

[Tunnelcat]

Right now, I'm assuming that HP preloaded the install for Windows 11Pro, so no USB stick or using Rufus. I'll have to see when I hook up the system. Will the above method work for my case? So don't connect to the internet (the motherboard doesn't have WiFi, Ethernet LAN only) and follow the instructions you posted to? How about drivers and such since Windows will not be able to go out and obtain drivers?

[Vander]

If you can’t figure out the oobe\bypassnro workaround, you can just use/create a Microsoft Account to get through the setup, then create a local user account after setup completes. Make that local user an admin, log in with it, and you can remove the Microsoft Account.

[Tunnelcat]

I can figure it out. It's just a question of how long before Microsoft blocks this most recent way to do it. It's become a game of just who owns your computer and for how long at this point.

[Tunnelcat]

Oh, this is just lovely. I can open a command prompt with the keyboard, but I can't type in the command. MS won't let me.

[Tunnelcat]

Ok, got it to take the keyboard. Even though I had the flashing cursor after the command prompt, I had to actually click on it with the mouse to get it to enter my keyboard typing. What a PITA, but I now have a local account.

[Isaac]

Ok, got it to take the keyboard. Even though I had the flashing cursor after the command prompt, I had to actually click on it with the mouse to get it to enter my keyboard typing. What a PITA, but I now have a local account.

Well done!!!

[Tunnelcat]

I've never had to click on the flashing cursor in the Command Window before. I usually start typing in whatever command I want with no issues, but not this time. I also found others on the net that recently ran into the same issue setting up Windows, the keyboard not typing in the Command Screen after hitting Shift+F10 and you KNOW the keyboard works because I was able to bring up the Command screen. None of the users posting their solutions on YouTube had a problem either, but most videos are now over 4 months old.

My old system has a MS account and a corresponding OneDrive account. I wanted all info in that cloud storage gone since this computer will be parted out. I'd previously unlinked OneDrive from the old PC because MS started nagging I needed to buy more space. Forget it. I logged into OneDrive with a web browser for nuking. Holy crap the files that MS had hoovered up over the years. Stuff was in there from when my hubby used the PC 10 years ago! I went on a delete binge and wiped everything, then dumped it's recycle bin as well. Nada remains. Everything I want is now on a USB stick. I'm going to fully uninstall OneDrive with Revo Uninstaller on the new system, then put my files back on the local drive. I'm probably going to upgrade my old NAS drive to a newer SSD version too. Any recs?

[TigerRaptor]

I'll say this: I'm glad I took the time to learn Linux in 2011, starting with Mint.

[Isaac]

I'll say this: I'm glad I took the time to learn Linux in 2011, starting with Mint.

I had to move to mint as well in 2011. Prior to that I was using Ubuntu.

What are you running now?

[vision]

I'll say this: I'm glad I took the time to learn Linux in 2011, starting with Mint.

Nice, I also switched to Mint in 2011 after fumbling with Ubuntu a year earlier, all thanks to WinXP end of life announcement. I always seem to have at least one device using Mint at all times (two currently), though I use PoP as my daily.

[Ferno]

Vision, Tiger, are you guys familiar with Nobara(Fedora) or Garuda(Arch)?

[woodchip]

After reading all this, I have two comments.
why are motherboard makers going along with the need to comply with the latest OS requirements? I am all for making things go faster but I draw the line at recording everything when it affects my privacy. Like Isaac I was fine with win 7.
2nd thing is when will the govt. declare microsoft windows OS a monopoly like AT&T was? At least AT&T was not intrusive like windows has become.

[TigerRaptor]

I had to move to mint as well in 2011. Prior to that I was using Ubuntu.

What are you running now?

KDE Neon now. Plasma has always been one of my favorite desktop environments with all of its customizations. One of the reasons I switched over to Neon.

Nice, I also switched to Mint in 2011 after fumbling with Ubuntu a year earlier, all thanks to WinXP end of life announcement. I always seem to have at least one device using Mint at all times (two currently), though I use PoP as my daily.

I have one computer still running Mint, and that is my old laptop, which I'll be replacing soon. I'd like to get a System 76 laptop, but damn, those come with a hefty price tag.

Vision, Tiger, are you guys familiar with Nobara(Fedora) or Garuda(Arch)?

I don't know much about Nobara other than that it's very game focused.

[Isaac]

KDE Neon now. Plasma has always been one of my favorite desktop environments with all of its customizations. One of the reasons I switched over to Neon.

Cool! I've never hopped on Neon, but I looked it up and it's debian based, so I think I'd do fine with it.

I currently have been using Endeavour OS. Before that, it was Manjaro, but Endeavour with KDE has been really solid. I've been using GNOME for years and this year I've been giving KDE a chance and I have to say it feels more lightweight than Cinnamon, Gnome 3, and (kill me if you want) xfce. Also, I missed compiz so much and having it back is like going back to my old Gnome 2 installs and it's fantastic. I know I sound stupid, but compiz was part of my intro to linux and it was so much fun. And now it feels mature under KDE's stack. It's like since the epic demise of Ubuntu, KDE and Compiz went to college and have come back as adults have kids and a house payment.

After reading all this, I have two comments.
why are motherboard makers going along with the need to comply with the latest OS requirements? I am all for making things go faster but I draw the line at recording everything when it affects my privacy. Like Isaac I was fine with win 7.
2nd thing is when will the govt. declare microsoft windows OS a monopoly like AT&T was? At least AT&T was not intrusive like windows has become.

So I think it's the commercial moving features into the consumer level that causes these features to become standard. A clear example is Windows NT eventually being the foundation for Windows XP. The number of supported cores and ram size supported by NT was only something the commercial sector really could afford in the late 90s. Eventually the consumer PC needed an OS that could support the growth and they made Direct X and other features available on an NT build, which became Windows XP. I think the same thing happened again with Windows Sever. GPUs also go through this, where many quatro cards from the early 2000s are beat in CUDA cores and architecture by the gaming line of cards in 2024. So if you want to look at the future, look at commercial grade hardware that costs as much as a house and assume that's coming to you someday.

[Vander]

I've tinkered with desktop Linux for 20 years, mostly in VMWare/Virtualbox/Parallels. Because it was virtualized I stuck to the lighter weight GUI's. (Gnome2, Mate, Xfce...) Terminal was the only 'killer app' for me, I needed SSH and hated PuTTY. I tried to daily drive Mint on a laptop maybe 10 years ago, but that didn't last long as I ran into random Power Management issues. Battery life was about 2/3 of what I got in Windows and standby was hit or miss. A little after that I went to MacOS and have been using that since as my primary. (though Windows has everything I'd need now between WSL and Powershell).

I still have ARM Ubuntu w/Xfce running in Parallels on my M1 Air, but it's just for having a sandboxed/snapshotted browser to check suspicious links.

[Isaac]

I've tinkered with desktop Linux for 20 years, mostly in VMWare/Virtualbox/Parallels. Because it was virtualized I stuck to the lighter weight GUI's. (Gnome2, Mate, Xfce...) Terminal was the only 'killer app' for me, I needed SSH and hated PuTTY. I tried to daily drive Mint on a laptop maybe 10 years ago, but that didn't last long as I ran into random Power Management issues. Battery life was about 2/3 of what I got in Windows and standby was hit or miss. A little after that I went to MacOS and have been using that since as my primary. (though Windows has everything I'd need now between WSL and Powershell).

I still have ARM Ubuntu w/Xfce running in Parallels on my M1 Air, but it's just for having a sandboxed/snapshotted browser to check suspicious links.

That's the beauty of linux. It can play big role or a small one. There's no wrong way.

[vision]

I'd like to get a System 76 laptop...

I got a System76 Desktop a few years ago and it's been everything I need. I've heard not great stories about their laptops and it seems like it's hard to justify the price. Sort of the same for the Desktop models, but I chose to spend the extra money because it's a reliable long-term investment in my work and so far it's met all my expectations.

Vision, Tiger, are you guys familiar with Nobara(Fedora) or Garuda(Arch)?

Yes, but I've never tried them. I've been a Debian-derivative user since my switch to Linux, and even my jobs in programming and server administration were in Debian-based environments for the most part (occasionally CentOS or Suse). I know enough to get around any UNIX-like system,* though I mostly focus on art/media and web work, not games. So basically I'm just running Flatpaks and whatever decent text editor is readily available. All these Ubuntu-based operating systems work well enough out of the box, and Linux is so good these days I never think about switching distros.

* The other day I had to wipe a drive on a laptop from 2003 and did it using a CD of Puppy 6.0 I had stored away. So nostalgic!

[Jeff250]

I still use Ubuntu after all these years (since 2005), even though it is a bit "corporate" these days. Debian-based distros are generally the path of least resistance just because a *.deb is one of the most common ways to distribute linux software.

[Isaac]

I still use Ubuntu after all these years (since 2005), even though it is a bit "corporate" these days. Debian-based distros are generally the path of least resistance just because a *.deb is one of the most common ways to distribute linux software.

You don't feel there are more options under the AUR repo?

[Isaac]

Nobody seems super excited about this...