Killers

[woodchip]

IDF has recovered the bodies of 6 hostages that were brutally murdered by Hamas...just prior to the IDF closing in to where the hostages were being held. Can't wait for the idiots to say it was Trump's fault.

[TheWhat]

Why would someone say its Trump's fault? Are you fishing for something?

[vision]

...just prior to the IDF closing in to where the hostages were being held.

So, you claim to be a military man. I mentioned my father being in the military in another thread. One of the reasons for his PTSD was the policy of the American government on how they treated enemy POWs while he was overseas. You see, at times when my father's unit was in danger of being captured or surrounded, if they had any enemy POWs with them, the policy was to kill them all and retreat as fast as possible. This is a real thing that happened. As long as I live I will never forget the look in his eyes while describing killing men point blank in order to save his life. I'm sure as a military man you understand why Hamas would do this. I'm sure you also sympathize with the IDF members who kill children, because hey, they are Hamas too.

[Tunnelcat]

Well, if you want guilt by family members....



Just to remind everyone, Kushner's peace plan was take parts of the West Bank and the Golan Heights from Palestine and make Jerusalem the new capital of Israel. Just push out every Palestinian from THEIR land to achieve it. I can see how THAT lead to Peace in the Middle East. See, Trump fucks up everything he touches, even via preppy little family members.

[woodchip]

Why would someone say its Trump's fault? Are you fishing for something?

Not at all, I just know how some think here.

[woodchip]

Well, if you want guilt by family members....



Just to remind everyone, Kushner's peace plan was take parts of the West Bank and the Golan Heights from Palestine and make Jerusalem the new capital of Israel. Just push out every Palestinian from THEIR land to achieve it. I can see how THAT lead to Peace in the Middle East. See, Trump fucks up everything he touches, even via preppy little family members.

Just as expected.

[TigerRaptor]

The whole purpose of this thread is so Woody would be like, "you see I told you so I told you so".

But given the nature on how things work around here. She'll shut you up.

[Tunnelcat]

Just as expected.

This coming from someone who's party espouses, excuse me, USED to espouse, "Take Some Personal Responsibility".

Woody, back when Kushner stood for that signing op pic with Netanyahu and claimed "Peace in the Middle East", I predicted the deal would eventually blow up in everyone's faces. Why? Because just like Trump and his deal with the Taliban, you can't exclude an an affected party, or worse ★■◆● them over in any deal, because that party will be pissed off. Trump, his son-in-law and Netanyahu pretty much said "★■◆● you" to the Palestinians. Want did you expect? For them to bend over and take having their homes and land stolen? No, they reacted as I expected they would, with violence. It just took awhile to plan the heinous act they finally came up with. I don't approve of it, but I understand the "why".

[Vander]

This was Trump's fault.

[Spidey]

The idea of having to kill hostages to save your life when the enemy closes in is Ludicrous.

They killed them because that is what terrorists do.

[Tunnelcat]

Did you read vision's earlier post? Our own troops have done the same thing. So are our troops terrorists?

As many here have pointed out, war is not clean or honorable. Even Allied troops committed atrocities like rape on civilians and murdered POW's during WWII. I won't even get into the crap that happened during the Vietnam War. So where's the fine line between soldiers and terrorists? I see no line at all, other than actual soldiers are state sanctioned murderers.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allied_ ... rld_War_II

[Top Gun]

The truth is that their blood is on Netanyahu's hands. Just like the dozens of hostages who have been murdered by Israeli air strikes. He doesn't give a ★■◆● about their lives at all, just using them as pawns to desperately cling to power.

[Spidey]

Did you read vision's earlier post? Our own troops have done the same thing. So are our troops terrorists?

Of course, I read vision's post...what do you think I was responding to?

Hostages are not POWs.

[Tunnelcat]

That's kind of a hairsplit since Israel has been at war with the Palestinians ever since WWII, all over land. Both sides are guilty of terrorist acts and murder, so why ★■◆● about only what one side does in an undeclared war?

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-69052857

[Spidey]

I wasn't bitching about anything and that is not a hair split.

A POW is a trained enemy combatant ready to take advantage of any opportunity.

A hostage is most likely a poor soul that is scared senseless and only wants to get home.

But if you believe 6 unarmed hostages probably held in isolation was a threat to Hamas, I have a bridge to sell...very cheap and only bombed once.

[Tunnelcat]

How many unarmed combatants, i.e. civilians, are murdered, raped and tortured by soldiers? Are they not poor defenseless souls who should be left alone during the fighting by the professionals? I see none of that happening in every war or instance of hostility on this planet through time eternal. One side wins and takes the spoils and rampages with their winning high, the other side suffers, or dies. How many of those Hamas hostages were probably killed by IDF bombs or airstrikes? Probably more than Netanyahu's government will admit, because they bombed the crap out of Gaza. How many IDF soldiers outright shot Palestinian civilians just because they were there in front of them as easy targets? Probably quit a lot. In illegal West Bank Jewish settlements, Palestinians are forced off their lands and sometimes murdered by Jewish settlers to get rid of the evidence. Are they terrorists? I seriously doubt they're even punished because it's one of those wink, wink government approved actions. IDF forces have tortured and raped male non-combatant Palestinians as a form or terror, or plain old revenge. Are THEY terrorists? What's the whole damn point of war or even terrorism other than to satisfy the urge for power, lust, hate, murder or take something that's not yours? I see no difference between the 2, because the outcomes are the same. The line between state-sponsored terrorism and war is very blurred.

[Spidey]

And what does any of that have to do with me calling bull★■◆● on the idea that Hamas had to kill those hostages to save their lives?

[Tunnelcat]

Ok, Hamas took revenge, I get that. I'm guessing that was probably their intention all along. Hate and blood lust can't be reasoned with. But I ask you to watch this. The IDF is deliberately tearing up streets in the West Bank just to punish people. Woody would say: "Good, they're all terrorists". I'm guessing it's nothing but revenge on the Israeli government's part for the hostage murders. But how is doing that going to solve anything? If Israel wants to deal with more terrorists, that's what they'll certainly get. What am I missing here?

[Spidey]

Yes, I have been keeping up with the news...the entire situation is sickening.

[woodchip]

First let me respond to visions post. I'm aware , especially during the D-Day invasion where airborne and glider borne troops inserted behind enemy lines, the killing of captured German troops was mandated because of the necessity for speed and nowhere to lock them up . And Spidey is right, we're talking about civilian prisoners. I wonder how humanely they were treated. Was the Red Cross or the Green Crescent allowed to visit them? Was the American hostage humanely treated for the loss of his hand during his capture? Somehow I doubt it.
So TC you want to equivocate with the video you posted? I should think that that after the 6 day war, the Yom kippur war, various intifadas, continuous rocket attacks, that Israel is done with making nice

[vision]

Hostages are not POWs.

They are functionally the same, used for negotiations.

[Spidey]

The primary reason for taking prisoners during a war is to remove combatants from the battlefield and provide information.

[vision]

The primary reason for taking prisoners during a war is to remove combatants from the battlefield and provide information.

Except when it's not. My father's unit was specifically tasked with capturing high ranking officers for negotiation and trade. He was an army paratrooper who would be dropped behind enemy lines with the explicit purpose of capturing VIPs. My dad was super smart and unfortunately because of that he had to do shitty "specialty" work like this. I was in my mid-thirties before he was able to really talk about what he did in the army and even then it was difficult for him. Getting near blackout drunk was one of the only ways he could sleep without nightmares. I've said too much already but this is a touchy subject for me. Fake veterans like woodchip and wannabe know-it-alls like you really piss me off.

[Spidey]

wannabe know-it-alls like you really piss me off.

Ahhh...life is good.

[Ferno]

[Spidey]

Portraying Jews as animals...humm, let me think, who does that.

[Ferno]

Portraying Jews as animals...humm, let me think, who does that.

Last I saw, no jew was accusing the other party of being antisemites when dealing with criticism.

Thanks for reinforcing the point the video was making.

But sure, try and push that valid criticism is being antisemetic towards all jews. You'd fit right in.

[Tunnelcat]

Given that humans resort to their animal or basal instincts more than we'd like to accept, I'd say we're all not too far removed from being animals. Civilization is propped up by the slimmest of rationales, the desire for comfort, a home to live in, a family, accessible food, secure rules and laws to protect us and a means of survival. It doesn't take much for us to devolve into gangs of animals that will attack one another just to survive when civilization collapses or worse, when self-gratification and lust for power overrides even that instinct.