Going Rambo on D1 level 6 (And other levels)

[Marvin]

Level 2, 9secs improvement. I should be able to go under 2:30 if I try more, but I'm fine with this run. I don't plan playing more this year. Maybe I will come back in future:).

[vision]

I should be able to go under 2:30 if I try more...

Realistically any time better than this has to be all RNG. That was as close to a perfect run as I can imagine.

[Marvin]

Good RNG is a must. But since the level in general is simple, it is not unimaginable to do. Besides this 2:30 run I did twice 2:31. In comparison, improving Level 3 I posted few days ago is harder.

[Marvin]

Realistically any time better than this has to be all RNG. That was as close to a perfect run as I can imagine.

That is because you don't speedrun it. I see many small imperfections in execution in that vid, which resulted in few lost seconds.

And I actually improved it to 2:26 now:). Still not perfect, that will never happen. At least not by me. Long time ago I would say such a time has to be perfect run, but while improving you simultaneously learn that it is always improvable.

[Marvin]

Once I was 5 secs faster than this 2:26 run while entering reactor room. That actually felt really close to perfect. Unfortunatelly last part was total mess and I finished with same time at the end..

[Darth Wang]

How fast do you think you could do it if you didn't have to kill everything?

[Marvin]

To be honest, I have never tried. But twice as fast should be doable on insane. If it is on hotshot it can be done in 1 minute, long time ago I speedrunned all levels this way.

[Marvin]

So, I kept going, did multiple 2:25 and 2:24 runs until I did this 2:22. The start (from beginning to hostages) was close to perfect. Best pace I ever had. Rest wasn't that perfect, but there wasn't significant time lost anywhere neither. Reaching exit was a bit sloppy, I though I missed last green robot . Luckily I didn't. Usually I have nearly no vulcan ammo at the end, so I switch to laser for last 2 robots. This time I had enough, it was a mistake I didn't check it, using laser was unnecessary risk. It happened multiple times I missed here before.

[vision]

Here is a question, since shielding is a resource just like any other, how often do you deliberately take damage to save time?

[Marvin]

It happens rarelly, because usually it means instant death, but for example start of secret level 3. Most of the time it means loosing nearly all shield, but it is a must, because there is no other fast solution. Same with green platforms in level 26 (before blue key). But in most cases it is possible to go nearly as fast without taking extra damage, because you have to destroy robots. Very different story would be if there are no cloacks and invulns in the game. I think I would have to change strategy drasticaly many times.

[Marvin]

Back with new run!

I remember, when I did L1 (1:26) a few years ago, I thought 1:25 is max for me. I tried that and it felt like even tie my 1:26 is not possible at all, haha. Took me 2 days to understand better all the details and 1:25 felt possible again. And not only that, I believed 1:24 aswell. And after doing 1:25 three times, I managed. And actually it was close to 1:23, lol. But to reach that time, so many things and details have to go well, it is close to limits.

[Marvin]

Level 5, 11sec improvement. Had some better runs, but never got as good ending as here. A bit lucky, since my shield was very critical. Btw the only strategical differences from old run were using vulcan for opening one door and (and that turned out to be very important) switching for concussion missiles for brown hulks at the end. Homings there are just a luckfest, because of that wall infront of hulks. About 3:30 is max for me in this level I believe, so 3:35 is not that bad at the end I guess:).

Edit: oh and I forgot, this time I took L4laser, which is slightly out of a way (about 1 sec of loosing time to take it), but overally I believe it pays of. The way how I killed some robots might not work with L3. But I'm just guessing. If somebody is into nerdy descent stuff, you can tell me the science

[Marvin]

Ok, let's go to the hell. Level 19. Improved by 20sec to 5:11. After that I still kept trying, because I was on better pace many and many times (best runs were 10sec faster), but the amount of luck needed to finish it off without loosing time is demoralizing. In 99,9% you die, or RNG makes you loose time. Roaming is problematic basicly in all parts of the level.

Anyway, although I'm not fully satisfied, this is still a solid run hard to achieve.

[vision]

this is still a solid run hard to achieve.

Great job. It really hurts to see those couple spots where things didn't go right, especially by the yellow key.

[Marvin]

Thanks. What is triggering me more is first floor. I was 5sec faster entering blue door quite often (best tries were 10, but that is very rare). After that it is pure lottery. All parts can be done better, but having perfect RNG everywhere is close to impossible. In this case it was overally very good RNG. I guess I can't ask for more:).

[Marvin]

Ok, I moved to L13. More or less same route, but I changed a bit fighting tactics in some places. I managed improve from 5:24 to 5:11, then ridiculous series of events happened (during whole week). I have finished it 5 times under 5:10 (1x 5:07, 3x 5:06, 1x 5:05), but in all cases one baby spider behind fake wall in the end survived!! That was quite demoralising, lol. And I don't even know how many times I have died infront of exit..

Yesterday I finally managed. First 5:10, then 5:08 and then shoking and satisfying jump to 5:02. Most annoying about this level is ammount of spiders. Random baby spiders spawns can (and VERY often do!) easily ruin whole run. Very annoying is also yellow key area. One of the heavy drillers loves to come from behind while you are fighting drillers and red mech guarding the key, which is basicly a game over. Killing that heavy driller in advance is not an option, you have to fight him later during recharge, so you don't waste any time. So you are just hoping for a good RNG here. In this run overal RNG was REALLY good, if I avoided some small mistakes (especially in reactor room) I could (maybe) break the barrier of 5mins.

[vision]

OMG this has to be my favorite run of yours, so much went absolutely right. Great job. Really exciting to watch.

[Marvin]

Thanks! I think now it is time to move on and practice for the ultimate descent challenge!

[Marvin]

I have a route for insane-max full game. Yesterday 3 deaths, ingame time 2h47min. Making it deathless will be really hard, there is always some unexpected deadly roaming happening or you simply make a mistake during such a long run. But I will keep trying!

[Sum0Beatz]

Make a demo next time you try,would love to watch!

[Marvin]

Make a demo next time you try,would love to watch!

When I make it deathless, I will post whole run on youtube.

Meanwhile I got new run on level 27. Above all expectations. I knew I can do theoretically better than current 2:40, but my Boss fight there was so good, that even when I was 5 sec ahead before the fight many times, I was always slower at the end. Until this shocking 2:33 run happened (actually very close to 2:32). I'm far from sure, but I tend to believe, when the Boss teleported basicly on the same spot I was on, it caused him some extra damage from colision, so he died faster. Also I think he got full damage from my smart missiles. Green blobs normally goes for random bots, but I think in this case they instantly damaged the Boss. Also, in the secret area at the end there are 6 cloacked lifters that behave differently every time. So it is quite lottery, sometimes you loose quite a lot of time. In this run it worked well, so overally this run is almost perfect.

[Sum0Beatz]

Damn that level looks fun to run lol

[Marvin]

What can I say...

[Marvin]

L10 - 19sec improvement. The technique used to blow up reactor is pure gamble. It happens quite often that reactor survive. If you pay attention you will see "you cannot open this door" message before the reactor was destroyed and last red mech was destroyed even later. It means homing missile managed get through almost closed doors somehow. Also the way I finished one of the red mechs guarding red door was lucky, he was in "sleeping" mode. It was intended to kill them both by 3 smart missiles + some plasma. But one of the missiles killed 2 drones behind the red door instead.

[vision]

19sec improvement.

This is shocking to read. When is the last time you made such a significant improvement? I feel like I've only been seeing single digit improvements for a long time.

[Marvin]

Hmm, I would say most of my recent improvements are double digit, haha. This year, I went for improving levels 1, 2, 3, 5, 10, 13, 14, 19, 27. And only level 1 and 27 were single digit improvements. But these two levels are actually close to its limits I believe.

About my newest run - L14: New time 5:23, that means 26sec improvement! I actually could do 5:17 once, but I died because of splash damage when all robots + also reactor were already gone. Ouch, that would be really satisfying run. This level is really frustrating to run. A lot of roaming by a LOT of robots + you need 2 specific cloak drops, so you can go through the matcen area twice. So for a fast run you really need significant ammount of cooperation.

[vision]

Marvin, I don't think I've ever asked what your setup is like. Are you mouse or joystick, and if so what kind? Also what's your player configuration like (keyboard mapping, weapon auto-select, etc)?

[Marvin]

Oh, I thought you know I'm keyboard player. For that matter it is important to have a keyboard with good antighosting system, so you can hit many buttons at the same time. I have never played with mouse or joystick.

My default set up (which I for example used in my recent full game insane run that you can see in another thread):
Right hand:
Little finger - Num0 - slide down
Ring finger - Num1 - slide up
Middle finger - right arrow - pitch right
Index finger - up arrow - pitch down
Index finger - down arrow - pitch up
Index finger - end - mega missile
Index finger - del - smart missile
Thumb - left arrow - pitch left
Thumb - right ctrl - drop bomb
Left hand:
Little finger - left shift - shoot primary
Ring finger - A - slide left
Ring finger - Q - bank left
Ring finger - 1 - lasers
Middle finger - W - forward
Middle finger - S - backward
Middle finger - 2/3 - vulcan/spreadfire
Index finger - D - slide right
Index finger - E - bank right
Index finger - F - bank left second option (alternative button in a case my ring finger is busy with A at the moment, so can't hit Q simultaneously)
Index finger - X - flare
Index finger - 4/5 - plasma/fusion
Thumb - space - shoot secondary
Thumb - left alt - cycling concussion/homing missiles

For speedrunning particular levels I adjust my config to what is important for me in that specific level. For example in many levels I don't need bombs at all, so I change right ctrl to something more usefull. Same with left alt. Sometimes I use these buttons for cycling or setting specific weapons for example, so I can do it easily while trichording.

Edit: About autoselecting, it again depends on particular level I'm speedrunning. As a default, when I play normally I have mega and smart missiles to be never autoselected.

[Marvin]

I tried L14 again and it payed off. 5:19. I'm fine with that run, I will not go further.

[vision]

Oh, I thought you know I'm keyboard player.

This seems crazy to me, but I guess it totally makes sense since you aren't doing any long distance sniping. Everything is basically close quarters at full speed. I guess what surprises me most is you use both hands for sliding and pitching. I honestly don't remember what the default keyboard layout is for D1, but at one point I assigned all movement keys to one hand (move, slide) and "pointing" keys to another (pitch, bank). That worked out best for me, and then I eventually started using a mouse with the L/R mouse buttons for bank so it was basically the same as my previous keyboard layout for that hand. Luckily my layout avoids multiplexing issues but I also have two keys each for slide up/down because switching is more comfortable for some movement.

[Marvin]

Yeah, long distance shooting is difficult, especially when you are in a narrow corridor, so you can't adjust your aiming by sliding, which is esencial for keyboard playing. Aiming is done by combination of moving and pitching (at least for me). But I believe I developed quite good accuracy over the years. Sliding up/down by "pitching" hand is what I'm used to for a very long time, so I hardly can imagine it different way. If I ever switch to mouse, it is almost guaranteed I would use L/R buttons for slide up/down.

[Krom]

Fine tuning ones aim with slides is pretty much universal, I do it on a joystick all the time. And more traditional shooters with a mouse I still do it sometimes.

[Marvin]

Ok, thanks for insights!

I have one more run. L20. True nightmare to speedrun on insane. You need a lot of luck for fast start. And then you just die because of roaming green platform robot anyway, or if you survive, you can't catch red keybot quickly.. This run is only 2sec faster than the old one, but what is ridiculous I finished the level with over 100 shields, that was very unexpected. I could save some time by skipping safety shield, I took it just because of a habit here. Also I could leave energy center a second earlier. But whatever, I didn't expect improving this level at all.

[vision]

I was thinking the other day about the randomness in this game and wondering if it is possible to modify the levels to remove it? I know you can fix robot state changes but I don't know if there is other randomness that is baked in and can't be removed.

[Marvin]

I have no idea. Also, I don't know if the game is deterministic and reacts the same way if your inputs are same (which is of course only possible with tool assistance), or robots reaction is randomly generated. Anyway, I would not be interested in playing modified game to have an edge like that. I even on purpose didn't use the glitch for level 27 to make boss fight easier. You can easily force the boss not spawning robots + also not teleporting!