Swords, in real life.

roid · Post by **roid** » Tue Jul 06, 2004 12:46 am

this has branched off from the dogfighting cafe thread. so let me set the scene:

NitroFox125 wrote: I think dogfighting may have gone the way of gentelmently swordplay, if you know what I mean.

roid wrote:and don't knock the swordplay Wink. the only reason we don't have sword duels anymore is because it's legally and socially questionable to be seen with one hanging from your belt. it's much easier to carry a flick knife, so that's what ppl carry.

Vertigo 99 wrote:I was wondering about that the other day - with my recent acquisition of a job, the first thing i thought about spending [read: wasting] my money on was an authentic japanese katana.

of course, i wouldn't actually use it to defend myself (i would probably end up cutting my own arm off sooner than an attacker's), but i was wondering - is it legal to carry a katana around on your belt? do you have to get some sort of permit for that?

Duper wrote:Vertigo, i think you can "get away with it" if you declare it's for religious reasons. The samurai were as much a religious class a warrior class. Otherwise I think you need a permit for carrying a lethal weapon on your person. It might fall under "consealed weapons" but I kinda think not as you are not to tell ANYONE that you are "packing".

btw, my wife's brother-in-law as 2 authentic WW2 katana's and 1 wahkasahi. He's been appraohed by several sword hunters and offered LARGE sums of money for them. These guys fins Family Katanas and SELL them back to thier rightful owners for HUGE amounts of money. Mad

roid wrote:wouldn't it be easy to just get a permit? what's involved in getting a permit (where you are anyway)?

i mean, i'd get a permit, just so i could be badass and carry a sword around. i want to do it THAT MUCH

so do you need a reason to get one? or is it just a matter of passing an eye exam, answering some questions, showing your ID, and paying a fee.

ok that's the stage set.

here's one of tet's badass pics to set the mood (yar i be stealin yer bandwidth of the high-seas).

roid · Post by **roid** » Tue Jul 06, 2004 12:51 am

...what do you think of the way that swordplay has gone. we don't duel anymore. but people still carry CONCEALED knives. if there wasn't laws against carrying weapons around like swords, then i imagine a lot of people would love to carry them around.

i don't think the west has really bled out the dueling culture from our society, because people carry flickknives and stuff, for this VERY purpose.
(to look badass, thereofore discouraging people from picking a fight with you perhaps).

theres not much you can do about it, you can't search everyone to see if they have a concealed weapon, so perhaps we should just be able to carry swords around, even in plain sight.

*slaps the entire DBB with a glove*

or perhaps it's just all too Freudian?

XeonJr · Post by **XeonJr** » Tue Jul 06, 2004 4:18 am

I get it now... You're drunk

woodchip · Post by **woodchip** » Tue Jul 06, 2004 5:13 am

Why carry a sword when you can carry a pistol? Pistols out bad swords.

Will Robinson · Post by **Will Robinson** » Tue Jul 06, 2004 7:21 am

...and why carry a pistol when you can carry C4?

I carry a one pound block of C4 molded in the shape of a 10"p#nis...now who's bad?

Vertigo 99 · Post by **Vertigo 99** » Tue Jul 06, 2004 9:21 am

roid wrote:wouldn't it be easy to just get a permit? what's involved in getting a permit (where you are anyway)?

i mean, i'd get a permit, just so i could be badass and carry a sword around. i want to do it THAT MUCH

so do you need a reason to get one? or is it just a matter of passing an eye exam, answering some questions, showing your ID, and paying a fee.

YES exactly.

because carrying a ★■◆●ing katana around would be so much more badass than having a pistol.

i mean honestly, who would ★■◆● with a person crazy enough to have a katana? having a katana on your belt PREVENTS conflict, rather than solves it

you could even be MORE badass if you just walk around with full samurai armor...!

now i just need to figure out the legalities of it all... heh

roid · Post by **roid** » Wed Jul 07, 2004 4:04 am

omg samurai armour. best idea ever.

i wanna carry a sword around coz i like hitting things with sticks.

woodchip · Post by **woodchip** » Wed Jul 07, 2004 6:09 am

I'll just drive around in my SUV and squash you all.

roid · Post by **roid** » Wed Jul 07, 2004 9:11 am

didn't you watch matrix reloaded? katana does like +999 damage to SUV. SUV dies.

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Tetrad · Post by **Tetrad** » Wed Jul 07, 2004 11:19 am

roid wrote:didn't you watch matrix reloaded? katana does like +999 damage to SUV. SUV dies.

image 1 (linkified)

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Vertigo 99 · Post by **Vertigo 99** » Wed Jul 07, 2004 11:25 am

i don't know whats going on in that pic tetrad, and i dont know how that dress is revealingly getting blasted away, but i like it.

Lothar · Post by **Lothar** » Wed Jul 07, 2004 1:41 pm

just a brief reminder... if your image makes me scroll horizontally, it should be linked instead.

edit: discussion of this policy can be found here.

Gooberman · Post by **Gooberman** » Wed Jul 07, 2004 2:38 pm

Dude, no way in hell I'm wearing a full samurai armor in 112 degree heat. Actually, maybe in hell...

You guys arn't thinking globally so it will never catch on

Vertigo 99 · Post by **Vertigo 99** » Wed Jul 07, 2004 2:40 pm

No we aren't. But in Boston, in the winter? Samurai armor would seem pretty comfy to me

woodchip · Post by **woodchip** » Wed Jul 07, 2004 6:41 pm

Roidy, you Do know what a SUV is...don't you?

Duper · Post by **Duper** » Wed Jul 07, 2004 7:15 pm

LOL like laminated bamboo sticks weaved with cloth is comfy ... LOL

oh, btw, Samuri didn't wear underwear per say. Anyone one their local laws on carrying a sword?

As I said in the other thread. My wife's brother-in-law has 2 katana and 1 wakahsashi. All authentic WW2 articles. Pretty cool stuff.

Katana are made with over 28 pounds of raw ore and is folded 4 million times over 2 1/2 years. 0_o The blade is reduced in that time to about 1 1/2 pounds of steel. Each sword master has his own wavy pattern which is created in the final firing.

Lothar · Post by **Lothar** » Wed Jul 07, 2004 7:19 pm

erm, I'm going to send this over to Tetrad's other forum, since there doesn't seem to be any E&C type material here...

Capm · Post by **Capm** » Wed Jul 07, 2004 8:00 pm

Its hard to find new swords you don't have to pay a fortune for that are of high quality, most you see are shiny pot metal and are actually rather fragile. Anyone know where to find actual good swords?

Duper · Post by **Duper** » Wed Jul 07, 2004 8:51 pm

I have seen some in a local store, but as you said they are rather pricey ... $800+

Phoenix Red · Post by **Phoenix Red** » Wed Jul 07, 2004 10:23 pm

Before you start carrying a sword, learn to use it. 99% of people will avoid pissing you off when you're walking around with something like that, but drunken punks that decide to take you on (probably carrying their own weapons) will rip you apart and leave you for dead.

Believe me, it happens.

roid · Post by **roid** » Wed Jul 07, 2004 10:33 pm

woodchip wrote:Roidy, you Do know what a SUV is...don't you?

YES IT'S A SPACESHIP WITH TENTICLES COVERD IN CRUSHED PEANUTS AND KEYBAORD SHAVINGS

dude, don't call me Roidy, only my iraqi girlfriend calls me that.

Wolf on Air · Post by **Wolf on Air** » Wed Jul 07, 2004 10:41 pm

Whatever you get, it must, of course, be Heron-mark. [/WoTnerd]

Vertigo 99 · Post by **Vertigo 99** » Thu Jul 08, 2004 12:00 am

my friend showed me a site that had literally top of the line sword, perfectly balanced, etc.

however, right now, it escapes me what the address was :

a good place to start searching is eBay.

as a general rule, look for folded steel blades made in japan. also, ask the buyer what material they're made out of, if they're sturdy, and if they're balanced.

Wang_Lo · Post by **Wang_Lo** » Thu Jul 08, 2004 12:10 am

weilding a katana is like an art man, unlike the european, hack and slash, the best way is to find someone, who knows it and have em teach ya, better then any book

roid · Post by **roid** » Thu Jul 08, 2004 1:40 am

i'd rather have a hardcore hack and slash sword. katannas are too dangerous for me to want to handle. i don't need that much danger hanging from my hip*.

remember that article on material science and kickass swords i posted recently on ZZZonline? that's more my kinda thing. i like slow moving heavy weapons that force you to conserve motion and redirect inertia accurately, if i had a lightsaber i'd just end up accidentally killing myself.

*(ps: "DANGER DANGER... HIGH VOLTAGE!!! WHEN WE TOUCH!! WHEN WE KISS!!"

)

oh yeah, folded metal samurai swords are a form of Damascus Steel. but they are not the strongest form

, that's "Wootz Steel". but still, again, even damascus wootz steel swords can be cut through by the recently built superhard dragonslayer sword, made from Ferrium C69.

suicide eddie · Post by **suicide eddie** » Fri Jul 09, 2004 2:27 pm

theres a little misconception about whats called damasus steel, derived from steel ore called wootz traded from indian went as far as the northern med across to far easten russia known as butal and many counties approaching the indian coastal trading routes. just really called damasus cos in syria they where really into the patterned and acid washed stuff. patterned steel was readily available almost anywere the ancient brits and gauls were really into the stuff liking a blue and brown oak leave effect. what gave the Nihonto swords their name is for thier cutting edge when around the 6th century, when the swords were straight bladed was using different blends and layers of cray in tempering giving a layered hardened edge, the more modern curved sword appeared around 9th century.anyway i prefer a tachi kogarasumaru, a good foot and a half longer and double edged over a foot soldiers katana nice for chopping up peeps from ontop of horse`s

Duper · Post by **Duper** » Fri Jul 09, 2004 7:22 pm

I've seen one of those. They have one on display at a musium in Washington state. It's a ceremonial sword only as it's handle and scabbard are made of ivory. It's one bigass sword. It's believed that the Japanese swordsmasters learned the art of folding steel from the Chinese.

Beowulf · Post by **Beowulf** » Fri Jul 09, 2004 10:22 pm

I still think that little Asian chick is one of the hottest creatures I've ever seen.

roid · Post by **roid** » Sat Jul 10, 2004 2:52 am

you sure it was an ivory handle?

they generaly use petrified walrus peni for katana handles. coz it's not slippery when covered in blood.

yes, serious.

suicide eddie · Post by **suicide eddie** » Sat Jul 10, 2004 2:46 pm

usally sandalwood or similar oily wood for the handle shaft with a ray or sharkskin wrap and on some of the better swords the skin will be inlaid to the handle and left unbraided for cerimonial use. if used for practice or fighting the skin will be covered for extra grip with braided silk or coloured horsehair and threaded thought the pommel. alot of the newer swords from around 1920 tend to be buffalo leather and anything else you see will be just for decoration and are usally for tourists. to see if you have a sword intended to be seriously used ignore any bold markings on the blade and on the blade handle edge you may see very faint markings showing what body parts it was tested on, brilliant quality testing eh

by the way did i tell anyone that i,am really into swords ?......

Top Gun · Post by **Top Gun** » Sat Jul 10, 2004 3:21 pm

One sword owns all: Anduril. 'Nuff said

.

suicide eddie · Post by **suicide eddie** » Sat Jul 10, 2004 4:42 pm

Sage · Post by **Sage** » Sun Jul 11, 2004 2:01 am

I own The Legendary Blade! The single sharpest blade in the world!

suicide eddie · Post by **suicide eddie** » Sun Jul 11, 2004 2:20 am

thats the wilkinson mach3 isnt it?

Ympakt · Post by **Ympakt** » Sun Jul 11, 2004 1:16 pm

Dueling/flick blade: It's not dueling, one person carrying a small(er) knife today usually results in ONE person being stabbed, there is no "duel"... Two people carrying knives and have time to square off = very messy, drawn out, bloody fight, bossibly both dead from blood loss.

Carrying a sword: Permits necessary? Perhaps, but more likely every place you go will be calling security/cops down on you, regardless of a permit. WTF carries a sword? Desperately needs "lookit me I'm a bad@$$ carrying a sword" attention.

Sword vs. Gun: Close quarters with both weaps stowed, a propely trained and skilled person could do some serious damage to the gun-toting individual before the gun is in firing position: draw-cut in one motion. Problem: unless the blow is instantly fatal (even a direct-to-the-heart shot takes 3-5 seconds for death, and building up the speed/power to behead someone in a swipe straight from the sheath is all but impossible), in that time period even one shot from a handgun could be fatal. Lose-lose situation. If the gunman can move out of range of the sword, then dead swordsman.

I did medieval re-creation stuff for a while and have handled several types of sword ( I own a hand-and-a-half), you'd have to be a very strong, skilled swordsman to survive a fight with anyone who has an equal or greater weapon and has similar skill. If you're wearing it because it's cool, you invite conflict, and wind up losing.

Anyone interested in swords/medieval stuff can go here: http://members.tripod.com/merchantsrow/

All kinds of stuff there, a search on google will find many traditional swordmiths that produce functional as well as decorative blades for a price.

roid · Post by **roid** » Sat Jul 31, 2004 3:01 am

Ympakt wrote:I did medieval re-creation stuff for a while and have handled several types of sword ( I own a hand-and-a-half)[b/], you'd have to be a very strong, skilled swordsman to survive a fight with anyone who has an equal or greater weapon and has similar skill. If you're wearing it because it's cool, you invite conflict, and wind up losing.

what is a hand and a half?

Drakona · Post by **Drakona** » Sat Jul 31, 2004 3:26 am

A big-ish sword. Though my knowledge is more from role playing than real life, I think it goes roughly like this. You have your big swords, that you're supposed to use two hands to swing, like a baseball bat. Then you have your little swords, that you use one hand to swing, like a ping pong paddle. And then you have your middle sized swords, that you use.. um... a hand and a half to swing? Um... you know, come to think of it, I'm not sure either what that's all about.

rijruna · Post by **rijruna** » Sat Jul 31, 2004 4:16 am

Iv been watching this thread with some interest & more than a little amusment.
There are some who play me who know of what I do with metals for a living & a hobby; [Qualified boilermaker/welder with 30+ yrs of experience], who forges steel timing chain & chainsaw chain into laminated flatbar. Some also know that I have also made metal from the ore, [Aussie is awash with the stuff & which I got by simply dragging a speaker magnet over my sisters backyard]
The ore I turned into solid metal was reduced by a thermite process then consolidated into the bar in a furnace & with use of a large hammer.
Just to clear up a few points raised by others but arent quite right.

Yes, japanese steel for swords are possibly the best handmade steel in the history of iron-working & yes it is a very involved & demanding process. [one of the olden days tests of a blade was to stack dead bodies of criminals upto a depth of 8 [eight] & some were able to cut entirely through in one hit. Very tough & sharp steel that.
No damascus steel wasnt named because they liked the pattern of it there. [good try eddie but no gold star] Damascus was a major trading center of its era being at the cross-roads of major civilizations that existed to all sides {persians, africans, europeans, slavs {no not slaves} & asians] that developed their own methods of steel making due to the type of raw ore they had & the methods they found to work
it.
Duper, the swords made for WW2 werent all that good, mostly being a stamped form cut en-mass from a blank plate & not very highly rated by the japanese. About them being folded 4 million times, nope maybe 13-15 times starting off with 4 pieces of smelted ore of various grades, do the math, if someone was just to double over a single piece of steel & kept doing that it still wouldnt take too long to get to large numbers. Sorry `bout that.
Eddie. Wootz Is the persian [indian] crucible melted ore . Bulat IS THE russian metal & not stuff imported from persia but similar methods of making, differnet base ore gives you a different finished metal no matter what you do. Ho wood for the handles & scabbards.
ympakt, Iv made weapons for the local chapter of 'the society of creative anachronisms' who do battle with real swords & armour etc. Iv made Halberds, Bills, Pikes etc.

For further reading, this book is the only one written by a genuine japanese sword-smith in the traditional manner in english. [iv got a copy]

http://www.historyofmilitary.com/The_Cr ... 1798X.html

If you go here & do a few hrs reading you will find a wealth of info there about Wootz, modern-day damascus [like I make] & a few other related things.

http://p077.ezboard.com/fthecrucible26870frm1
cheers
rij

Ympakt · Post by **Ympakt** » Sat Jul 31, 2004 7:32 am

Nice information!

CUDA · Post by **CUDA** » Sat Jul 31, 2004 8:08 am

sorry Duper not to rain on your parade about being the sword being folded 4 million times in 2 1/2 years but that would be a total of 4,386 times a day or 183 times an hour or 3 times a second more likley it would be 400 times in 2 1/2 years.
besides I prefer the Klingon Bat'leth my self