Why didn't the PXO crowd just join Kali?

Codger · Post by **Codger** » Wed Jul 07, 2004 6:55 am

Yeah, I finally figured that one out. So, I'll try the Kquery. Along with Kali, planetdecent, and the cx tracker I know I'll find a game. Too bad that there isn't an agreed upon, centralized location for d3 advocates to chat. Seems kinda splintered at the moment.

Lobber · Post by **Lobber** » Wed Jul 07, 2004 8:33 am

That was the whole point of this post. There is a centralized single community that supports Descent, and all its Descendants (eric cartman laugh).

Suncho · Post by **Suncho** » Wed Jul 07, 2004 9:40 am

Duper wrote:Kali was originally MADE Exclusively for play Descent on the Net. It faked the game out into thinking it was on a Lan.

Yes. What does that have to do with anything?

CDN_Merlin wrote:Suncho, try playing a wared copy of War3 on Bnet. Won't happen. These are the types of games I meant.

We're Descent 3 players.

WarAdvocat wrote: #1: You don't have to pay for Kali to use it.

You don't?

WarAdvocat wrote: #2: Most IRC Clients want you to pay too.

I don't know if this is true, but if it is, you still have the option of using one that doesn't.

WarAdvocat wrote:
#3: No IRC Clients have built-in D3 game browsers.

Sometimes I just want to chat. Sometimes I just want to browse games. Forcing a game browser down my throat when I'm trying to chat would be annoying. Forcing chat down my throat when I'm trying to play would also be annoying.

WarAdvocat wrote: #4: Kali was the heart of the Descent community way back when.

Dude... I'm not against people using Kali. The only thing I'm against is forcing *EVERYONE* to go there. Even if it were possible to make sure all D3 action happens through Kali (which I don't think it is), I think we'd lose a lot of players.

WarAdvocat wrote: #5: Kali supports many other games, and has built-in game browsers for all of them.

I never figured out how to chat and view games at the same time on Kali. How do you do that?

WarAdvocat wrote: #6: Did I mention there are no IRC clients with built-in game browsers?

I prefer it this way. Maybe other people don't. If people like Kali, that's great. Use it. But why force one system down people's throats and why question the fact that everyone likes to make their own decisions about where to chat and where to find games?

I happen to find mIRC/Kquery more convenient than Kali, so I'll use it even though I've paid for both.

Lobber · Post by **Lobber** » Wed Jul 07, 2004 10:30 am

1. It's just abit of history to help see what's relevant about Kali and why it was written.

2. I've noticed that D3 players are a distinct group apart from the D1 and D2 crowd. What I was proposing was unity, not divisions.

3. Kali has a 15 minute trial period where you have to relog in every 15 minutes, but you can do that as often as necessary. Back in the day before I bought my serials I played for 5-10 minutes before I had to relog back in. Since buying of course, I could play a game till my wrists broke.

4. I've never heard that, but it makes sense

5. Who's forcing a game browser down your throat? If all you're doing by posting here is explaining why you don't want to use Kali, then this post has served its purpose. It posed a question, why don't D3 players and PXO crowd join Kali? You answered, and thats fine, go your own way.

6. SEE 5

7. It's in the latest version, with a side window that expands and shows you whats happening in the games while you're chatting.

8. SEE 5

Suncho · Post by **Suncho** » Wed Jul 07, 2004 10:39 am

I apologize, Lobber. My post was not in direct response to you or this thread. It was in response to those who claimed that we should all be on Kali and there was no good reason for us not to be.

That's awesome that you can view games and chat at the same time. I gotta try that.

CDN_Merlin · Post by **CDN_Merlin** » Wed Jul 07, 2004 11:02 am

The way I see it is this; the more chat areas for D3 there is, the fewer number of peolpe in each chat room which would make users think D3 is dead. Hence, they would stop playing cause they ahrdly see anyone.

If everyone was in one central location, it would flourish more as players would see more people interested in D3.

Just my 2 cents

Top Gun · Post by **Top Gun** » Wed Jul 07, 2004 11:17 am

Actually, Lobber, the 15-minute trial is no longer used by Kali. Jay Cotton changed it to a 30-day trial account with limited priviliges. You'd have to use different e-mail addresses to get new trial accounts. That being said, 30 days is plenty of time for anyone to realize that Kali is well worth the $20. While no one should be forced to use Kali, it's a very nice tool to have.

WarAdvocat · Post by **WarAdvocat** » Wed Jul 07, 2004 12:33 pm

Just for the record:

I never said that you could view games and chat at the same time in Kali.

Nobody is forcing anyone to do anything, although I personally feel it is a good idea to ENCOURAGE people to use Kali, and I plan to use it myself when I decide to play Descent 3 online again, if PXO doesn't return that is.

And yes, Suncho, you're allowed to do whatever you want. I just happen to believe in the KISS principle. Keep it Simple, Stupid.

I've had my say here, especially as you've come perilously close to contradicting yourself in your attempts to refute my points. As the following quotes show, it's pretty obvious to me that you're justifying rather than discussing at this point.

Suncho wrote:
WarAdvocat wrote:
#3: No IRC Clients have built-in D3 game browsers.
Sometimes I just want to chat. Sometimes I just want to browse games. Forcing a game browser down my throat when I'm trying to chat would be annoying. Forcing chat down my throat when I'm trying to play would also be annoying.

Uh huh. Here comes an almost-contradiction:

Suncho wrote:
WarAdvocat wrote: #5: Kali supports many other games, and has built-in game browsers for all of them.
I never figured out how to chat and view games at the same time on Kali. How do you do that?

Hmmm. Verrrrry interesting...So you looked? I personally haven't tried to do both at once, so I'll have to take your word for it that you can't. And you found that the chat and game browsing are separate and you can't chat and view games at the same time, right? Therefore, Kali meets your criteria: Chat is not forced down your throat, nor is game browsing! So...Didn't you just sort of invalidate your response to #3 above or were you trying to make some kind of obscure point? Oh wait... There's more...

Suncho wrote:
WarAdvocat wrote: #6: Did I mention there are no IRC clients with built-in game browsers?
I prefer it this way.

Nobody is campaigning AGAINST anything here except for you. It's obvious that it's become a point of honor to you to defend your ideas at all costs.

Suncho · Post by **Suncho** » Wed Jul 07, 2004 1:01 pm

WarAdvocat wrote:Just for the record:

I never said that you could view games and chat at the same time in Kali.

I never said you said that. But Lobber did. =)

WarAdvocat wrote:Nobody is forcing anyone to do anything, although I personally feel it is a good idea to ENCOURAGE people to use Kali, and I plan to use it myself when I decide to play Descent 3 online again, if PXO doesn't return that is.

Awesome.

Waradvocat wrote:And yes, Suncho, you're allowed to do whatever you want. I just happen to believe in the KISS principle. Keep it Simple, Stupid.

I believe in that too.

Waradvocat wrote:I've had my say here, especially as you've come perilously close to contradicting yourself in your attempts to refute my points. As the following quotes show, it's pretty obvious to me that you're justifying rather than discussing at this point.

I don't know what that means.

Waradvocat wrote:
Suncho wrote:
WarAdvocat wrote:
#3: No IRC Clients have built-in D3 game browsers.
Sometimes I just want to chat. Sometimes I just want to browse games. Forcing a game browser down my throat when I'm trying to chat would be annoying. Forcing chat down my throat when I'm trying to play would also be annoying.
Uh huh. Here comes an almost-contradiction:

Suncho wrote:
WarAdvocat wrote: #5: Kali supports many other games, and has built-in game browsers for all of them.
I never figured out how to chat and view games at the same time on Kali. How do you do that?
Hmmm. Verrrrry interesting...So you looked? I personally haven't tried to do both at once, so I'll have to take your word for it that you can't. And you found that the chat and game browsing are separate and you can't chat and view games at the same time, right? Therefore, Kali meets your criteria: Chat is not forced down your throat, nor is game browsing! So...Didn't you just sort of invalidate your response to #3 above or were you trying to make some kind of obscure point?

No. =) I like to view chat and games at the same time when I'm chatting about games I want to join. I like to only view chat, when I'm not looking for games. I like to only view games when I want to play but not chat.

Some people don't chat at all and only want to play. Or they chat, but they chat in a place other than the one that happens to be bundled with their game browser.

Some people don't play at all and just chat about the game they used to play.

That's all I was trying to say there.

Suncho wrote:
WarAdvocat wrote: #6: Did I mention there are no IRC clients with built-in game browsers?
I prefer it this way.

Nobody is campaigning AGAINST anything here except for you. It's obvious that it's become a point of honor to you to defend your ideas at all costs.

[/quote]

That's not true. I get a vibe that some people people are campaigning against not going to Kali. Maybe it's just a vibe. =)

My point is as follows:
Kali is good, but so are some of the alternatives. Allowing everyone to use the methods they choose will not hurt the community.

Is that something that we all agree on?

Suncho · Post by **Suncho** » Wed Jul 07, 2004 1:04 pm

I'm not campaigning against Kali either. I'm doing 2 things:

1. Trying to explain why we aren't all already on Kali (the original question)
2. Campaigning for the freedom for players to choose their methods.

WarAdvocat · Post by **WarAdvocat** » Wed Jul 07, 2004 1:06 pm

#1

Fix double post

#2

I agree with your final statement (from the first post of your (subsequently fixed) double post) 100%

Suncho · Post by **Suncho** » Wed Jul 07, 2004 1:08 pm

Awesome that we agree. I fixed the double post (it was acually an edit but I clicked the quote button instead). I sneakily replaced it with some new stuff to make it look like I'm just hyper and making a lot of posts.

Codger · Post by **Codger** » Wed Jul 07, 2004 2:15 pm

Lobber wrote:That was the whole point of this post. There is a centralized single community that supports Descent...

I musta missed the point. Ok, I can't seem to find this chat area where I can find the most chatterers, d3 type. You know someplace where the same folks that come here to post also go to chat? Where might that be?

Top Gun · Post by **Top Gun** » Wed Jul 07, 2004 2:21 pm

Codger, most people are using the IRC channel at irc.gamesurge.net #Descent3 or #Descent3Rookie. Alternatively, there's irc.shadowfire.org #Descent. Any IRC client will allow you to connect to these servers.

Suncho · Post by **Suncho** » Wed Jul 07, 2004 2:25 pm

These 2 web pages also bring you to irc.shadowfire.org #Descent3:
http://www.descentchat.com
http://www.suncho.com/chat

Lobber · Post by **Lobber** » Wed Jul 07, 2004 6:40 pm

I think the view games and chat at the same time was in a beta I tested, it doesn't seem to want to do that in the official release.

Capm · Post by **Capm** » Thu Jul 08, 2004 7:28 pm

Why don't we put it to a Vote.

Face it people, we have way too few people in this community anymore to be scattered all over hell's half acre. In such an instance, it is for "the greater good" of the community as a whole that we should decide on ONE place to create a hub around.

Much like the DBB is THE forums for Descent, (pd forums not withstanding, but I think we all agree the DBB is superior in every way anyhow) - We need ONE place to meet for Descent. Now, I'm not saying you can't use other means also - But I'm saying that we should pick a place where *everybody* goes.

Before, we were FORCED to use PXO. Now we have a choice. Yes, we have a game tracker, we have a couple IRC channels, whateverelse there is, But Kali has always been there for us, and a large portion of the remaining D1/D2 community is still based there. It also has support for nearly every game we play in addition to Descent, built-in game browser for all those games, not just Descent. The interface is fully featured, time-tested and easy to use.

We have every reason to use Kali, and it doesn't have to be our only method, but it should be our PRIMARY method. In my honest opinion.

We can debate back and forth for all of time and not get anywhere. It needs to be put to a vote, and be done with it.

{Hawk}Liquid · Post by **{Hawk}Liquid** » Thu Jul 08, 2004 7:30 pm

i agree and i say everyone just use www.descentchat.com

its so freaking easy , its free, and it works

Capm · Post by **Capm** » Thu Jul 08, 2004 7:35 pm

Vote Here

DigiJo · Post by **DigiJo** » Fri Jul 09, 2004 5:58 am

i have set kali to open chat in a new window, that way i can watch chat and gamebroser at the same time.

Lobber · Post by **Lobber** » Fri Jul 09, 2004 8:22 am

Oh yea

Suncho · Post by **Suncho** » Fri Jul 09, 2004 10:46 am

Capm wrote:We can debate back and forth for all of time and not get anywhere. It needs to be put to a vote, and be done with it.

Nobody's going to enforce the results of a vote. I think it's a little naive to believe that people will follow the results of a vote if they voted the other way.

Suncho · Post by **Suncho** » Fri Jul 09, 2004 10:47 am

DigiJo wrote:i have set kali to open chat in a new window, that way i can watch chat and gamebroser at the same time.

Aha! Cool! Thanks Digijo!

Capm · Post by **Capm** » Fri Jul 09, 2004 2:02 pm

Suncho, perhaps not, but it would be in the best intrests of the community if we did. The community has no governing body except itself as a whole. I think that if the vote turns out in Kali's favor, then let it be so, and support it. If it doesn't turn out in Kali's favor, then we can vote on something else. But majority rules, so if the majority of people know everyone is going to be located on Kali, then that is where they will go, enforced or not. The noobs will find their way there, they always did before.

Sirius · Post by **Sirius** » Sat Jul 10, 2004 6:48 am

Excuse the incredibly late replies. I just don't come around here very often these days.

CDN_Merlin wrote:I can get a Linksys router for 75$ CDN. That's 40$ US. Time to get one Sirius. My Linksys work fine with Kali.

Yes, but living in New Zealand DSL routers are more expensive here. Four years ago that sort of price might have justified buying a new router just for Kali (although at the time they were something stupid like $800 depending on the model; most people used to rent them), but not any more.

Ferno wrote:I'm running a FreeBSD firewall/router/dhcp server/etc and i can connect to kali just fine. just gotta open up the correct ports.

Yep, tried all that. I've been tinkering with this thing on and off for three years in an attempt to get it to work, but absolutely nothing does except connecting through a proxy (which raises more trouble of actually finding one). I suspect it would work if the router supported DMZ, but unfortunately it doesn't.

Testiculese · Post by **Testiculese** » Sat Jul 10, 2004 12:53 pm

I want people in servers.

I don't care what chat is used, so I didn't vote. I have Kali, tho'..and it was always a pain to get working. I finally got rid of the duplicate IP and network problems..when I reload this machine, I dunno how I'm going to get it working again.

edit..wrong thread..sort of..