Good news for those of you that refuse to go beyond Win98SE.

MD-2389 · Post by **MD-2389** » Sat Jan 17, 2004 1:47 pm

Microsoft has extended the cutoff deadline to June of 2006. That means you still get "critical" updates upto then.

Mr. Perfect · Post by **Mr. Perfect** » Sat Jan 17, 2004 2:21 pm

Heh...

woodchip · Post by **woodchip** » Sat Jan 17, 2004 3:07 pm

Most of them are security updates geared to those who for some odd reason still use IE and microflaccid's email proggies.

Krom · Post by **Krom** » Sat Jan 17, 2004 3:58 pm

By now the total amount of patches for 98SE (compressed) must exceed the amount of data on the 98SE CDROM and after all the updates and patches the only thing orignal to the 98SE install would be the sample desktop images.

Mobius · Post by **Mobius** » Mon Jan 19, 2004 2:39 pm

I can see the sense in the decision - but I am still utterly hosed by it. Microsoft may have decided to keep supporting Win98, but I have put my foot down, and point-blank refuse to even LOOK at a box running Windows 98.

I just tell people to chuck the fcuking thing in a sewer, and I'll help them out when they have a new PC and Windows XP.

The only other alternative is to pay me $400 to throw the box out for them, save recyclable parts, and assemble a new box based on XP.

MS agreeing to keep supporting Win9SH!T is all the reason idiots need to avoid upgrading. I can hear Intel and AMD screaming their heads off about this. Here they are, at the start of a recovery, expecting UNTOLD upgrades due to the fact that XP will not run on boxes which have 98 running on them (Except for morons who install 98 on new machines - Dear Sweet Baby Jebus!) and so MS just dicked the hardware manufacturers out of about 5 Billion USD (And probably MUCH more than that) for FY04.

Top Wop · Post by **Top Wop** » Mon Jan 19, 2004 3:32 pm

Considering some people dont even care to upgrade to "the latest and greatest" and some people like me fall back to 98 for compatability reasons, I dont see why it should be so bad.

And Mobius, STFU and quit being a dork.

Mobius · Post by **Mobius** » Mon Jan 19, 2004 5:52 pm

Compatibility reasons? PFFFFT.

You are just a masochist. Admit it. You love being the butt of the best joke MS ever played on the world. Yes, Win9CRAP is the funniest joke ever played on PC users...

Now, go out there and UPGRADE! To 2K AT LEAST!

Top Wop · Post by **Top Wop** » Mon Jan 19, 2004 6:17 pm

I dual boot between 98 and XP so dont give me that masochist crap.

98 is not perfect and I never said it was so I dont understand the point of your attack. As I stated I keep it so I can fall back on it when my old games cant play on it. You want to try Rune on XP? Go ahead I dare ya.

Dork.

Warlock · Post by **Warlock** » Wed Jan 21, 2004 1:58 pm

the 9X shell is old and slow and trity much a paine in the ass Nt runs alot smoother and it doesnt hog up mem like 9X does and Fat32 is such a POS

i just cant wait untill Longhorn goes in to beta

Krom · Post by **Krom** » Wed Jan 21, 2004 3:30 pm

DOS support in 98 can come in handy for old games like Descent, Dark Forces and other DOS games, if I were intersted in playing thosw again I would assemble a legacy box and it would use Windows 98SE.

-Krom

woodchip · Post by **woodchip** » Wed Jan 21, 2004 5:16 pm

With a newer O.S., can't you still at boot up go to the safe-mode dos screen and choose #6 "safemode DOS prompt" then load and play a dos based game? Maybe even install Dos 5 here also?

MD-2389 · Post by **MD-2389** » Wed Jan 21, 2004 5:21 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by woodchip:
With a newer O.S., can't you still at boot up go to the safe-mode dos screen and choose #6 "safemode DOS prompt" then load and play a dos based game? Maybe even install Dos 5 here also?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

1. You can choose Shift F5 to goto the command prompt, but you will only be able to read FAT32 and older partition types.

2. You can't install DOS as it only reads FAT16 and FAT.

Jeff250 · Post by **Jeff250** » Wed Jan 21, 2004 6:29 pm

No, not unless you have a Win9x boot disk or dual boot.

woodchip · Post by **woodchip** » Wed Jan 21, 2004 6:51 pm

O.K., then how about using partition magic and make a partition into fat 16?

Warlock · Post by **Warlock** » Thu Jan 22, 2004 9:14 am

y would u want to part a drive with Fat16 cuase 16 is limited 2GBs per Part or was it 4GB

DCrazy · Post by **DCrazy** » Thu Jan 22, 2004 9:39 am

There's no real DOS in any NT-based operating system. There's a DOS subsystem built into the kernel (like the OS/2 and POSIX subsystems) but it is incapable of granting access to devices that normal Windows applications cannot access themselves; this is why games like Descent will not function.

It's also impossible to boot to DOS from WinNT/2K/XP. You need to use a boot disk, and as was said above, a DOS boot disk will be unable to read an NTFS volume, and anything older than DOS 7 (I believe?) will not be able to read anything newer than FAT16.

SSX-Thunderbird · Post by **SSX-Thunderbird** » Thu Jan 22, 2004 11:16 am

A 95/98 boot disk will read FAT32 just fine though.

And the limit for FAT16 is 2GB, though some tools may have been able to allocate a 4GB partition to FAT16, but that'd be a bit of a waste o space, given that FAT16 has insanely large cluster sizes for partitions that big.

Warlock · Post by **Warlock** » Thu Jan 22, 2004 1:35 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by DCrazy:
 There's no real DOS in any NT-based operating system. There's a DOS subsystem built into the kernel (like the OS/2 and POSIX subsystems) but it is incapable of granting access to devices that normal Windows applications cannot access themselves; this is why games like Descent will not function.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

yep thats y its called VDM (Virtual Dos Machine) cause of IIRC on a NT system the software has to ask the OS permission to acess a device, 9x and dos does cause they just talk strate to the device

Akasha · Post by **Akasha** » Fri Jan 23, 2004 9:56 am

This is just my two cents:

Why keep Win98SE for two years? I would want my computer to last a long time. I just want a system that will kick WinXP's butt.

I like Windows XP better, but 98 is still cool. It's just that I want to move forward, even if it has bloatware. But then I won't be able to play games like Splinter Cell, or maybe even Doom III. I don't know about doom, but splinter cell might just use an engine that is just bloatware.

Scorch · Post by **Scorch** » Fri Jan 23, 2004 10:42 am

I think I actually like Win98 the best out of all of MS' OSes. Sure, I'm running XP at home, but there are several things I really don't like about it. The main one is networking. Networking was so simple in 98, now you have to bend over backwards just to see another computer on a home LAN.

I hate how "friendly" XP is, and yet once again you have to go through contortion just to be able to do stuff. Want to share your program files directory on a network? Impossible. Want to look at system files? Hordes of option forms and checkboxes to wade through. Want to use your own program to open zip files? Not gonna happen.

You can say XP is more stable, and yes, I agree. But 98 was always stable for me too. My last computer, running 98, once I got everything installed and tweaked to my liking, never crashed more than twice a year, and that was due to a poorly written program I installed. And I left it running 24/7.

The point is, for people who know how to use it properly, 98 worked fine. I still use it work without ANY problems whatsoever, and so does every other computer here. My secondary machines at home use 98. My dad uses 98. None of us have any problems and I have no desire to upgrade any other computer to XP.

Jeff250 · Post by **Jeff250** » Fri Jan 23, 2004 1:18 pm

Want to share your program files directory on a network? Impossible.

Disable simple file sharing.

Want to look at system files? Hordes of option forms and checkboxes to wade through.

What, enabling the view of system and hidden files? I thought you had to do that on 98 too.

Want to use your own program to open zip files? Not gonna happen.

Howcome?

Even if 9x doesn't crash, you'll still run out of those cryptic "system resources" if you do anything intensive after a few days and reboot anyways.

Scorch · Post by **Scorch** » Fri Jan 23, 2004 2:56 pm

Jeff, if you can tell me definitivly how to enable sharing the Program Files directory, I will take back all the bad things I ever said about you.

Simple file sharing is off. MS says, no matter what, Program Files will not be shared on a network.

Yes, you had to enable viewing system files on 98 too, but it was less work.

As for the zip thing, if I do a regsrv32 thing to try and disable the integrated zip suport, it only works until Windows is restarted. I don't want my zips categorized as folders, thank you very much, and I want to open them in PKZip, not a new Explorer window. But no matter what, it never works.

Jeff250 · Post by **Jeff250** » Fri Jan 23, 2004 3:12 pm

In the security tab, just add "Everyone" and give it every permission.

edit: This is assuming you've already created a share in the "sharing" tab. Also take a look at the "Permissions" button in that tab for more sharing permissions.

MD-2389 · Post by **MD-2389** » Fri Jan 23, 2004 3:24 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Scorch:
Yes, you had to enable viewing system files on 98 too, but it was less work.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Umm...you do it the same way you goofball.

As for the zip thing, if I do a regsrv32 thing to try and disable the integrated zip suport, it only works until Windows is restarted. I don't want my zips categorized as folders, thank you very much, and I want to open them in PKZip, not a new Explorer window. But no matter what, it never works.

So just right-click on it, select Open With, select PKZip and check the box that says "Always use this application to open this file" and click OK. Thats it. Same way in Win98 except to access the Open With option you have to hold down the shift key.

Vindicator · Post by **Vindicator** » Fri Jan 23, 2004 3:28 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Scorch:
Yes, you had to enable viewing system files on 98 too, but it was less work.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Explorer -> Tools menu -> folder options -> view tab -> check 'show hidden files and folders', and uncheck 'hide protected operating system files'.

So incredibly difficult.

Krom · Post by **Krom** » Fri Jan 23, 2004 4:24 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Scorch:
Jeff, if you can tell me definitivly how to enable sharing the Program Files directory, I will take back all the bad things I ever said about you. Simple file sharing is off. MS says, no matter what, Program Files will not be shared on a network.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Disable simple file and folder sharing, connect to \\computername\c$ share using admin user and password (c$ is the default share for the C: drive and cannot be disabled, same with any other fixed disk drive). You can see Program Files, you can see Windows, you can see anything on the drive. The only folder you cant see is "System Volume Information".

-Krom

Scorch · Post by **Scorch** » Fri Jan 23, 2004 4:26 pm

That is very difficult for me! I get lost and confused in all those checkboxes!

I'll try to networking and zip stuff.

Okay, the security stuff confuses me, so I'll just leave it alone. There are a lot of logins there, so I assume it's good as it is.

BTW, just to make sure I am doing this correctly, where and how do I disable simple file sharing?

Now this is the weird part. I just went to do the zip thing, and they're no longer appearing as folders and have winzip icons! Last time I opened Windows Explorer, they were still showing up as folders and had Windows zip icons! I know this for a fact because eysterday I deleted a bunch from a folder because I was sick of them showing up as subfolders. Very strange... did one of you hack into my computer and change it on me?

Jeff250 · Post by **Jeff250** » Fri Jan 23, 2004 5:09 pm

In Windows Explorer, go to the view tab and uncheck "simple file sharing."

Then right click on Program Files, go to the sharing tab and create a share. Then go to the security tab, click add, type in "Everyone" (without quotes), hit OK, then select "Everyone" and check "allow" for full control. Hit OK. That should work, unless I've done something I've forgot to mention, and you should be taking back all the terrible and heinous things you've ever said about me.

Added note: Supposedly XP Home (i.e. not Professional) doesn't have the security tab unless you're in safe mode. I have no idea if this is true, but, if after you've disabled simple file sharing you still have no security tab just go to safe mode.

Scorch · Post by **Scorch** » Fri Jan 23, 2004 5:19 pm

I have pro, but I neither have "Simple File Sharing" under View, nor do I have a sharing option when I right click. Perhaps because I am using a Windows classic theme? If I right-click on program Files and select properties, there's something called Web Sharing, is that it?

Jeff250 · Post by **Jeff250** » Fri Jan 23, 2004 5:23 pm

Do you have File and Print Sharing installed under Control Panel -> Network? Hit "Install..." and select Service, and it should be there.

Scorch · Post by **Scorch** » Fri Jan 23, 2004 6:00 pm

sure do. After all, I can see every folder on my hdd except for Windows and PF.

MD-2389 · Post by **MD-2389** » Sat Jan 24, 2004 12:23 am

Ooooh, that is like so hard.

Admiral LSD · Post by **Admiral LSD** » Tue Jan 27, 2004 12:46 pm

Hang on:

4. Paid incident support is now available through 30-Jun-2006. Extended hotfix support for Windows 98 and Windows 98 Second Edition ended on 30-Jun-2003. Extended hotfix support for Windows Millennium ended on 31-Dec-2003. Online self-help support will continue to be available until at least 30-Jun-2007. For additional information on the type and length of support provided, review the Windows 98, Windows 98 Second Edition, and Windows Millennium Support Extended Announcement Web site.

If that means what I think it means then the guidelines are going ahead as planned (and that 9x users are still pretty much boned) but if anything comes up in the next 2.5 years then you have to pay to get the hotfix. Or am I just understanding that completely wrong?

AceCombat · Post by **AceCombat** » Tue Jan 27, 2004 4:40 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Krom:
By now the total amount of patches for 98SE (compressed) must exceed the amount of data on the 98SE CDROM <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
doesnt Me go beyond a original install by 3 or 4 CD sizes?

Scorch · Post by **Scorch** » Tue Jan 27, 2004 9:19 pm

MD, you're an ass

Just for the record, no one ever told me to go to Tools, Folder Options and then View, I was just told, in Windows Explorer, to go to the View tab. Anyway, yes, Simple file sharing is unchecked.

MD-2389 · Post by **MD-2389** » Wed Jan 28, 2004 3:07 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Scorch:
MD, you're an ass Just for the record, no one ever told me to go to Tools, Folder Options and then View, I was just told, in Windows Explorer, to go to the View tab. Anyway, yes, Simple file sharing is unchecked.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

If you look carefully, that is the view tab. What you clicked on was the view menu.

"In Windows Explorer, go to the view tab and uncheck "simple file sharing."" - Jeff250

"Explorer -> Tools menu -> folder options -> view tab -> check 'show hidden files and folders', and uncheck 'hide protected operating system files'." - Vindicator

(emphasis mine)