WELL SINCE THERE ARE NO MODERATORS

Krom · Post by **Krom** » Sat Sep 11, 2004 4:14 pm

What? o_O

Gooberman · Post by **Gooberman** » Sat Sep 11, 2004 4:23 pm

Will Robinson · Post by **Will Robinson** » Sat Sep 11, 2004 4:29 pm

I haven't seen any of those guys at the meetings...even on free doughnuts night!

TheCops · Post by **TheCops** » Sat Sep 11, 2004 4:33 pm

Will Robinson wrote:I haven't seen any of those guys at the meetings...even on free doughnuts night!

ahahahahha!

Gooberman · Post by **Gooberman** » Sat Sep 11, 2004 4:38 pm

That's because the ultra left wing self-loathing America haters have free beer and putang night during your free doughnuts night.

<3

Krom · Post by **Krom** » Sat Sep 11, 2004 4:43 pm

HEH @ goob.

No MODs, but the admins are still around.

TheCops · Post by **TheCops** » Sat Sep 11, 2004 4:54 pm

Krom wrote:No MODs, but the admins are still around.

ya, and you nazi's could use a nice alien anal probe (where's mobius when you need him... oh yea, he is in love with his jpegs) to lighten up and join our sodem and gomorrah like wild parties we have behind our computers.

Xamindar · Post by **Xamindar** » Sat Sep 11, 2004 4:55 pm

hehe, I voted Woodchip. No reason

Lothar · Post by **Lothar** » Sat Sep 11, 2004 5:37 pm

Zuruck, definitely. Making the left look like it has no credibility...

Topher · Post by **Topher** » Sat Sep 11, 2004 5:47 pm

behave

MD-2389 · Post by **MD-2389** » Sat Sep 11, 2004 5:49 pm

I picked Woodchip just to make the poll look like its flipping off the viewer.

Birdseye · Post by **Birdseye** » Sat Sep 11, 2004 5:57 pm

Heh, Lothar deletes some posts, starts a new thread about his own bad moderating making it look like I started it, and Topher takes both our moderating privelages. Go figure!

MD-2389 · Post by **MD-2389** » Sat Sep 11, 2004 6:11 pm

Birds, you two need to get a ★■◆●ing room. Seriously. Dragging out your little vendetta with Lothar all over this forum is getting old. If you have a beef with him, settle it outside the damn board. Better yet, take it up with Sickone and Xciter. This is why we have admins.

Lothar · Post by **Lothar** » Sat Sep 11, 2004 6:11 pm

Birdseye wrote:Heh, (1) Lothar deletes some posts, (2) starts a new thread about his own bad moderating making it look like I started it, and (3) Topher takes both our moderating privelages. Go figure!

1) I deleted off-topic posts. In response, Birdseye threatened (in a PM) to start deleting my posts.

2) When I split the thread -- in order to keep the actual discussion on-topic -- I added in a "this thread was split from (other thread)" note, which Birdseye then edited out of his post. Then he claims that I made it look like he started the thread?

3) Does it really surprise anybody? Do you think Topher or any other admin was going to reward Birds for the above by removing me and not him? Especially considering that, rather than taking his complaint to the admins, he made it public? It doesn't work to have one moderator undermine the actions of the other, so there's no way we're both staying -- and I'm pretty sure there's no way you'll be left as the sole moderator after this.

And you're confused about this? Come on, Brian -- you're not stupid; you know exactly what you're doing. And Topher isn't stupid either; he's not falling for the "Birds innocent, Lothar evil" routine.

Krom · Post by **Krom** » Sat Sep 11, 2004 6:30 pm

Are we having fun yet?

MD-2389 · Post by **MD-2389** » Sat Sep 11, 2004 6:34 pm

Oh hell...

Ok, who wants tickets?

Ferno · Post by **Ferno** » Sat Sep 11, 2004 6:35 pm

Vindicator · Post by **Vindicator** » Sat Sep 11, 2004 6:36 pm

Just get rid of the Ethics forum and ban all form of political/social commentary. That'll teach em.

Lothar · Post by **Lothar** » Sat Sep 11, 2004 6:48 pm

Just doing my best to keep you all entertained.

Ferno · Post by **Ferno** » Sat Sep 11, 2004 7:03 pm

Birdseye · Post by **Birdseye** » Sat Sep 11, 2004 7:12 pm

it's interesting that I'm getting the blame for lothar deleting posts by others.

preach on, Md. From what I hear in the NHB you have people pissed off at you for deleting their posts as well.

I know Lothar deleting posts without explanation or warning is a form of oppressive control that some complained to me about. I PMed you and you made no indication of changing or warning anyone. I PMed the admins and had no response after 24 hours.

I didn't "make anything public" really. I was about to type a response to vader's straw man post and suddenly it was gone. Then I found out you deleted it, and I made a comment about you deleting it. Others followed wondering why posts were deleted. You made a new thread with myself at the top. I suggest you make your own posts for yourself, rather than writing words into my posts that say "-Lothar" because it made it look like I started the moderator complaint thread when I did not.

here are 2 solutions:
1) make will the moderator and we both step down.

2)an easy way for us to coexist would be if you are going to delete someone's posts, send them a private message explaining why or a warning to edit before you delete it. I think we all deserve that kind of decency.

I don't think warning or explaining why a post was deleted is an unfair thing to ask for from a moderator. Vader was messaging me trying to figure out what was going on. He didn't know if the DBB was down, something was messing up, or if someone was deleting his posts.

TheCops · Post by **TheCops** » Sat Sep 11, 2004 7:33 pm

i have the solution.

the first to remove the anal probe from my hairy buttocks is the moderator.... and i will renounce my political, personal, and spiritual beliefs and replace them with the un-pluggers views.
ready! set! remove the anal probe!

Lothar · Post by **Lothar** » Sat Sep 11, 2004 7:39 pm

Birdseye wrote:it's interesting that I'm getting the blame for lothar deleting posts by others.

No -- you're getting the blame for threatening to delete my posts as retaliation. You're also getting the blame for continuing to make this a public topic. There's a thread in the moderator forum, you know...

I PMed you and you made no indication of changing or warning anyone.

Like I said: he was trolling. His post got deleted. He should know better. No explanation or warning is necessary.

I PMed the admins and had no response after 24 hours.

That doesn't make it appropriate to make it a public topic.

You made a new thread with myself at the top. I suggest you make your own posts for yourself, rather than writing words into my posts that say "-Lothar" because it made it look like I started the moderator complaint thread when I did not.

I can't "make my own post" if I'm going to split a thread. I can only split posts that are already present, and then leave a note in the top one saying where the thread came from.

I took all the relevant posts out of the thread they were in, and put them in a new thread. That's the best that can be done.

here is a solution: make will the moderator and we both step down.

Which is exactly what I said you were going to do. You don't use your mod powers, so stepping down doesn't actually change anything for you. But you really want me gone, so you're willing to lose mod powers you don't even use as long as you can get rid of me in the process.

Not that I really mind -- as long as we have a moderator who does his best to cut down on trolling, flaming, and sniping I don't particularly care who it is. And it would at least mean I don't have to put up with this same crap from the same people every time I do anything.

an easy way for us to coexist would be if you are going to delete someone's posts, send them a private message explaining why or a warning to edit before you delete it. I think we all deserve that kind of decency.

People know better than to troll, flame, or snipe. I don't need to tell someone "I deleted your trolling, flaming, and/or sniping post." If you're posting something like that in E&C, expect it to disappear without explanation. I can't believe we've become so whiny that we expect a moderator to take the time to explain to us why such things are unacceptable. Everybody here knows the rules. I don't have to repeat them every time I delete something.

And even if I did start giving warnings... we wouldn't coexist as mods. You'd still do your best to undermine everything I do, because you don't *want* an active moderator. You'd do your best to force me into moderating your way. That's not coexistance, it's coercion. It doesn't work.

I suggest we continue this in the appropriate forum, and let E&C get back to normal.

Ferno · Post by **Ferno** » Sat Sep 11, 2004 7:54 pm

birds actively tries to sabotage your efforts every time?

TheCops · Post by **TheCops** » Sat Sep 11, 2004 7:58 pm

Lothar wrote:I suggest we continue this in the appropriate forum, and let E&C get back to normal.

why?
let it go! let's see it you brainiacs that make mistakes. let's see both of you make perfect in public.

we uh mayonnaise eating small people would love to lurn from ya... you well spring of experience.

Topher · Post by **Topher** » Sat Sep 11, 2004 8:14 pm

Ok, how's aboot we do this. Listed in the DBB Policies linked in this forum's descrition is the "3 Strikes Rule" copied below.

In summery, Moderators can edit and delete posts as they please. However, let's try to follow Steps 1 and 2. Delete the post if it's "completely inappropriate" and email/PM the user explaining why to eliminate confusion of where the post went and why it was removed.

So that would mean with trolling, flaming, sniping, etc: If it's a serious offense, then fine, delete it. But assume we're all naive and didn't know we were being totally retarded and avoid being asinine by letting the user now.

Aside from that, there isn't anything mentioned about disagreements between mods. How about a general "Rules of Respect" which would be 1. If one mod makes a decision, keep it the way it is as to avoid mod-level flame wars (aka this thread). 2. If you really disagree, post it in the Mod forum first. 3. Still can't solve it, PM an admin.

eh?

------------
DBB Moderation Policies:
Moderators have rights to edit messages, delete messages / entire threads and close threads, from forums where they are granted rights. .

The format of the board, and the caliber of the people on it can help keep conversations more or less 'civilized', productive, and fun. We want everyone to be able to be free enough to express themselves within the limitations of the rules. We will only approach users about a problem when what they're doing is clearly against the rules they agreed to when they regged, or there is something that obviously needs to be dealt with to keep the BB on track. So policing the the forums is secondary to being a moderator.

Other than brief comments in a thread to try and point it in the right direction, or comments when closing out a post - moderation will primarily be private. Policing the forum publicly can backfire: there's a chance it will just get worse. That's why we think it's better to carefully and professionally ask offending users to stop via e-mail.

However when a Moderator feels there is a real problem with a certain individual, we will follow this rule:

"3 Strikes and YER OUT!"

When deemed necessary, Moderators will:

1 - Delete the offending message if the they think it's completely inappropriate

2 - E-mail the user, tell them that the message has been deleted and why , and CC the Admins to inform them of the problem

3 - If they are still getting out of hand, and the offending user(s) do not respond to the mails, or stop the offending behavior, repeat Step 1 and Step 2.

4 - At that point if it really looks like the person has NO clue, just mail the admins directly and we will deal with it from there. We will yank their posting privileges if we have to. This is a last resort however. It really shouldn't get to that point (ahh yeah..we hope)

Gooberman · Post by **Gooberman** » Sat Sep 11, 2004 8:40 pm

Birdseye · Post by **Birdseye** » Sat Sep 11, 2004 9:22 pm

Sounds good to me. All I am and have been asking for is a deletion notification which Lothar has refused.

I don't think it's right to delete a poster's thread without telling them. I'm happy to see that this was already on the rulebook.

For the record I apologize for any posts people were offended by. I also want to make it known that I didn't start the "complaints about lothar's moderating" thread--Lothar did that and put my post at the top.

I think we can co-exist fine with the rule clarification by topher.

Vander · Post by **Vander** » Sat Sep 11, 2004 9:41 pm

If you really want to fix this situation, appoint a moderator that doesn't moderate. Lets be realistic here. There isn't a whole lot of moderating needed for this group. This isn't quite the Howard Stern Bulletin Board. We're all pretty tame, and we usually abide by the basic rules of no cheats, no warez, no porn. I don't see how this place needs more moderation than the occasional warning or moved thread. Keep it simple, stupid!

Ferno · Post by **Ferno** » Sat Sep 11, 2004 10:03 pm

well with that in mind.. i think Vander would make a great E&C mod.

bash · Post by **bash** » Sat Sep 11, 2004 10:16 pm

Things ran alot smoother when it was just Lothar. I don't know if Lothar requested a second mod to assist him or one was thrust upon him but the only ones who ever whine about E&C or Lothar are the ones that contribute next to nothing to the forum anyway (unless you consider flamebait, ad hominem attacks, non sequiturs and hijacking to be *contributions*). Not much gets discussed anymore due to the rise of those sorts of posts. Given the choice between an active mod or an inactive forum, I'll choose an active mod.

Birdseye · Post by **Birdseye** » Sun Sep 12, 2004 12:14 am

Oh, you mean like the fiasco with the thread closings? ;p That caused woody to leave the forum and many of the E&C material went to the NHB for a few weeks.

I think the forum ran best with hands off mods like sting ray. I think he closed his fair share of threads but I don't remember anyone complaining. I think over-policing tends to piss people off more than straighten them out. A good mod is hardly noticed and is the source of little contreversy.

I think there has been plenty of discussion lately, maybe you just have trouble seeing other people's opinions and shrugging off the occasional flippant reply. Most of them are in jest anyway, and I don't think anyone is really hurt. C'mon you've got thicker skin than that, I know it bash

If it helps to pull a fresh set of mods from the admin's butts to clear the fart in the forum, I have no problem with that.

bash · Post by **bash** » Sun Sep 12, 2004 12:24 am

You are the one with the power trip. You are the one with the Nazi fetish. You started the *fiasco* you seem to think you solved by whining your way into being part of the mod squad, much to the detriment of the forum. And you're doing it again. Now you feel like Lothar needs your permission to do a job he was doing just fine before you inserted yourself. Heh. E&C never needed fixing because it wasn't broken. Now you're willing to sacrifice Lothar's competent moderating. How noble.

Nope, if you go over the side I hope Jim has the wisdom not to throw the baby out with the bath water.

Ferno · Post by **Ferno** » Sun Sep 12, 2004 12:35 am

wheee, let's paint Lothar as the picked on do-gooder!

but yea, Stingy was the best mod for this forum.

kufyit · Post by **kufyit** » Sun Sep 12, 2004 1:38 am

Such anger, bash!

Tricord · Post by **Tricord** » Sun Sep 12, 2004 3:40 am

A major part of Lothar's life took place in online forums, so it has kindof gotten under his skin. He has become very skilled to formulate his thoughts in "forum format", as well as very skilled to overthrow someone else's thoughts if they didn't match his own.

That's all very well as a regular user, however it can conflict with the moderator duty in a forum such as E&C -- where personal convictions outweigh the sake of discussion by a large margin.

Given this, I've always thought Birds was given an ungrateful job as moderator here. Lothar being ultra-right-wing, Birds was thrown in to bring the political bias over moderators a little more to the center. And under the circumstances, he did a good job so far according to me.

Another thought: moderating E&C has nothing to do with political or other viewpoints of the moderator. Usually, whenever a moderator decides to mod a post, the descision should be independent of his personal convictions. That's why I think it doesn't matter what the political bias of the moderators are, as long as they don't let it interfere with their moderating duty. That is also why I think Birds would be perfectly capable of handling this forum on his own, should he want to take the job.

Birdseye · Post by **Birdseye** » Sun Sep 12, 2004 3:43 am

Interesting. Can you be specific about what power I have exterted over you or anyone?

They only thing I have done in this forum was close a thread by woodchip. It was dead from the start. I let his message stand so it could be read, then closed it. As far as I could tell, nothing else has been out of line that has been delete or close worthy.

I would have made my comments about the thread deletions the same whether I was a moderator or not.

What moderator powers have been abused? Perhaps I took the "nazi" stuff too far. I apologize for that. I thought it was a runnign DBB joke, with Tetrad (I believe) having the title "Dbb Thread Nazi" or something at one point I believed it was fair game.

I apologize if I have power tripped. But I until you can be more specific I cannot see the error of my ways. I would also like it explained how I began this fiasco so I could better understand my errors and fix them.

Thanks in advance,
Birdseye
p.s. thanks for the kind words, Tri

TheCops · Post by **TheCops** » Sun Sep 12, 2004 5:09 am

Tricord wrote:A major part of Lothar's life took place in online forums, so it has kindof gotten under his skin.

that is really so sad... so-so sad if you think about it.

Birdseye · Post by **Birdseye** » Sun Sep 12, 2004 5:20 am

hey, let's not project. Everyone makes their own life choices based on what they enjoy. Leave him alone.

Besides, between a wife and an academic career in mathematics it sounds like he is doing fine to me.

WELL SINCE THERE ARE NO MODERATORS

who is the most likely to be a member of an ultra right wing neo-nazi organization?

WELL SINCE THERE ARE NO MODERATORS