Well, I just played three levels of D3 Retribution and then my last level, AP. Been real busy this last year, but after playing I got the urge to do another level. (Haven't played D3 for a long time.)
In all the levels I've done there were good things and bad things. Unfortunately I did not get a lot of feedback during the beta stage for any of the levels I did. The help I did receive was extremely valuable and much appreciated, but very limited. Which told me that SP doesn't have much of a following.
Before I trot off to do this, I'd like some opinion.
What's good in a SP level and what's bad. How long should it be? How many goals? Should I even bother?
New Level?
Moderator: AceCombat
Well, personaly I only play Single Player (in any game) if I like the story line and usually only stories designed by the game makers. Descent3 single player I love, but levels made by anyone else kinda doesn't mean anything to me. Sorry, just my personal opinion. Multiplayer levels, or even co-op levels (which you could call SP levels) are what I like after beating the original game!
So really, an SP level would be great if it was designed well and I could play it in coop with a friend.
So really, an SP level would be great if it was designed well and I could play it in coop with a friend.
What I like to see in SP is something that's on the longer side, so you don't finish it in 20 minutes. The most important thing for me is truly interesting objectives, different than the usual "find the next switch" that has plagued some D3 SP missions. Blowing **** up is always cool 
. I also hate it when level designers make the next objective very difficult to find and then don't add any functionality into the Guide-bot; I like playing the mission, not hide-and-seek. If the level is anything but simple, the Guide-bot should be able to find most of the objectives.
. I also hate it when level designers make the next objective very difficult to find and then don't add any functionality into the Guide-bot; I like playing the mission, not hide-and-seek. If the level is anything but simple, the Guide-bot should be able to find most of the objectives.
Top Gun wrote:What I like to see in SP is something that's on the longer side, so you don't finish it in 20 minutes. The most important thing for me is truly interesting objectives, different than the usual "find the next switch" that has plagued some D3 SP missions. Blowing **** up is always cool
x2, i love blowing shiz up aswell. i want a LONG!! but not impossible level to finish. and ditch the "Hit the next switch or find the next key or object" make some real puszzles.......you gotta carry this object-device to this point, then activiate it, then tell the guide bot to help you find the next goal which would be, to rescue someone or something and drop it off (Object) to accomplish the next goal.
I LOVE PLAYING SP SERIES!!! multiple missions in one pack....thats what i love, a long, well built story that has plenty of action and requires more than just shooting megas and smarts at shiz and you beat the level.
If you want tons of feedback and adoring fans, you're pretty much designing levels for the wrong game. You have to do SP levels because you enjoy doing them, not for any perceived "fame" or whatnot.
If my missions are any indication, you know how I like SP missions. Short, explosive, and sweet. Everything is tidy and succinct. Things don't sprawl all over the place and there aren't strange 6-lever puzzles hanging in the alcoves or mandatory Guided Missile nonsense.
Since becoming a professional designer though, here's one thing I learned: restraint. The original Unreal did this to a great extent early on, and so did Half-Life. You don't need to fill every space with an enemy or with combat. Sometimes, just letting the player fly down an eerie corridor is good enough. Building tension is an art. One of the best ways is to populate the level with soundsource objects, something that is prevalent in Unreal maps, but rarely seen (err, heard) in Descent 3 maps. The original Descents had exciting combat, but they were also just a tad scary. Robots would hide in the shadows, take up sniping positions, and lay in wait of passing ships. Aside from the paradigm shift that leaned toward puzzles, a key difference between D3 and D1 is the lack of creepyness. With the exception of Old Scratch, robots in Descent 3 never scared me, just as the environments didn't have many dark corridors or proverbial things that go bump in the night. Scenarios like these don't happen so often in the pastel-colored world of Descent 3, but I'd love to see someone try.
If my missions are any indication, you know how I like SP missions. Short, explosive, and sweet. Everything is tidy and succinct. Things don't sprawl all over the place and there aren't strange 6-lever puzzles hanging in the alcoves or mandatory Guided Missile nonsense.
Since becoming a professional designer though, here's one thing I learned: restraint. The original Unreal did this to a great extent early on, and so did Half-Life. You don't need to fill every space with an enemy or with combat. Sometimes, just letting the player fly down an eerie corridor is good enough. Building tension is an art. One of the best ways is to populate the level with soundsource objects, something that is prevalent in Unreal maps, but rarely seen (err, heard) in Descent 3 maps. The original Descents had exciting combat, but they were also just a tad scary. Robots would hide in the shadows, take up sniping positions, and lay in wait of passing ships. Aside from the paradigm shift that leaned toward puzzles, a key difference between D3 and D1 is the lack of creepyness. With the exception of Old Scratch, robots in Descent 3 never scared me, just as the environments didn't have many dark corridors or proverbial things that go bump in the night. Scenarios like these don't happen so often in the pastel-colored world of Descent 3, but I'd love to see someone try.
You bring up a great point Kyo. Creepyness or lack there of and an element of tension is a difficult task. Probably this can be achieved via lighting. Doing this properly can be a bit daunting. I send as much time playing with lighting easily as I do texturing.
The one thing I really dislike about D3 is that you have to script the bot's behaviour. This isn't exceptionally hard as it is just a PITA when there are a lot of bots. Each needs a name and each needs its own behavoir profile.
This really sux when there are over 200 bots. O_o
The one thing I really dislike about D3 is that you have to script the bot's behaviour. This isn't exceptionally hard as it is just a PITA when there are a lot of bots. Each needs a name and each needs its own behavoir profile.
This really sux when there are over 200 bots. O_o-
Mr. Perfect
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Co-op is a must when I look at SP missions(heh). Your past missions have always been the cream of the crop, and where the first missions my friends and I played when we needed a change from the Outrage set. We where rather disapointed when Alien Territory came out and it wasn't co-op compatible. Bots and friends are the best mix, and co-op is the SP level's purpose after it's first solo flight.
Other then that, something that's fairly long is always a pluss. Unless of course you want to do a whole level set made up of small levels. I'm always disapointed when a good game is over in ten minutes or so.
A number of goals are also a key part of single player for me. I don't mean things like the level 6 timed race through the rings, but I don't want to spend the whole time drifting trough the level with no other purpose then to get out. There ought to be some reason to be there. Things to destroy, places to get to, or objects to retrieve.
Other then that, something that's fairly long is always a pluss. Unless of course you want to do a whole level set made up of small levels.
I'm always disapointed when a good game is over in ten minutes or so.A number of goals are also a key part of single player for me. I don't mean things like the level 6 timed race through the rings, but I don't want to spend the whole time drifting trough the level with no other purpose then to get out. There ought to be some reason to be there. Things to destroy, places to get to, or objects to retrieve.
Kyouryuu wrote:The original Descents had exciting combat, but they were also just a tad scary. Robots would hide in the shadows, take up sniping positions, and lay in wait of passing ships. ...... With the exception of Old Scratch, robots in Descent 3 never scared me, just as the environments didn't have many dark corridors or proverbial things that go bump in the night. Scenarios like these don't happen so often in the pastel-colored world of Descent 3, but I'd love to see someone try.
cant you easily change the behavior of robots with the gam editor?
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DarkFlameWolf
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I tried remaking Genova Caverns from the ground up for Descent 3 with a spooky, abandoned mine, atmosphere with ideas for scripted events and ambushes that would scare the player. Remember your first bout with a Skaarj in Unreal 1 where all lights turned off one, by one and then strobe lights? We got that to happen in Descent 3 quite well and a frag missile tail bot loomed in from the shadows once the green strobes hit. There were a dozen other ambushes planned and more expansive areas added to the original Genova design. But alas, it was too ambitious and never did get finished.
I don't do it for the "adoring fans," although it's nice to hear that people like what you do. The lack of feedback during the beta stage is rather disappointing. By saying "building for the wrong game," do you mean that there isn't any intrest left, or that what is left is not worth the effort?Kyouryuu wrote:If you want tons of feedback and adoring fans, you're pretty much designing levels for the wrong game. You have to do SP levels because you enjoy doing them, not for any perceived "fame" or whatnot.
As with ANY art form. You do it first for yourself. Even in a commision. If you have no inner drive or desire, there really is no point.
SP level are difficult to make for many reasons. You truely have to WANT to do it. Not many build SP levels, let alone Anarchy levels. Scripting is a must and it seems that those who code seldom build a lot.
I have a SP level 95% done. It just needs to be scripted and an exit sequence built. I do not know much about scripting nor do I have much time to learn. there are some great tutorials out there too.
SP level are difficult to make for many reasons. You truely have to WANT to do it. Not many build SP levels, let alone Anarchy levels. Scripting is a must and it seems that those who code seldom build a lot.
I have a SP level 95% done. It just needs to be scripted and an exit sequence built. I do not know much about scripting nor do I have much time to learn. there are some great tutorials out there too.