It is time to reform

[LEON]

Sorry, but i find this attetude a bit strange. "I play for fun. I don't care about frags, but if i as a newbie gets owned i will leave this game." To me, it sounds like an urge to be the top player. The guy that owns. And paying a lot of attention to the frag counts.

When i'm new to something, of course i will get owned. Something else would be strange. And i beleive it's like that with everything. Sports, chess, every computer games out there.....etc.

And this "Nobody plays my levels!" It's ok when it comes from a level designer that have been around for a while. But i have heard some newbie designers throw themself on this train as well. How many levels is it out there? Ther's a lot of levels and few players. I wouldn't expect my level to be hosted and played if i came up with one.

In both cases, it sounds like love for the attention not the game.

Same thing goes for some of the "top pilots" Sounds like they are in love with their own skill level, not the game.

This is what killin' the game. Not enuff love for the GAME

Thx for your time

Leon

[Sergeant Thorne]

Hey, good show, Leon. I agree.

[Top Gun]

Nice post, Leon . That's the correct attitude to have about any new thing you attempt at life: "I'm gonna suck until I practice/learn more." It seems like some people attempt to be great at a game as soon as they enter their first server. Ain't gonna happen . Speaking personally, I have improved my game almost infinitely since I started playing D3, but I also know that I have an infinite amount to go to get truly good. How do I get better? Keep getting owned .

Edit: Kyouryuu, there are some players who don't worry about kill count and just play the game to have fun. I'm one of them, and I know many more. Also, there have been many newbs who have been owned and kept coming back. It's true that most of the people on this forum are the "elite" of D3, but they certainly don't represent the whole of D3. I sucked at D3 for a very long time, but that just kept giving me motivation to keep playing and keep getting better. I've finally reached what you might call a mediocre level of skill, but there's a lot of room for improvement. People like Leon have the right attitude about playing a game. The first time you play a game, you should get completely blown out of the water; that's normal. In my opinion, most other games don't have the same learning curve that Descent requires; I for one wouldn't like a game where a first-time player could own as much as someone who had played for a year or two. By the same token, Descent players are usually good at many other games, because we've had to live that learning curve.

It would be great if you did make another singleplayer level or two, Kyouryuu, since your work is always amazing . I also agree that this community has killed off most of the modding community. We need to change this, either by groveling at the feet of the people we drove away and acknowledging our unworthiness and guilt , or by getting new people into D3 modding. Some of us, myself included, want to keep playing new levels; however, we seem to be in the minority. This attitude has to change, and change soon.

[Sage]

I'm trying to get back into Descent, oh jesus god I am, but every time I try D1X/D2X is an ★■◆● and my f8cking joystick doesn't work.

I can play D3 though, but I don't play it that much. I liked the old D1&D2 better. But I can't get them to work.

I'm playing the old Doom games alot now on the jDoom engine.

[pipsqueak10]

"The d3k boycott is what killed the D3tl and D3-online for a lot of us"

Do you really think that one team's players that don't play the game anymore is a reason that a lot of people would stop playing a game. Sounds kind of foolish and even a little stuck up to me. A small group of players does not rule the community. Anyway heres a few of the reasons I think the game is dying.

1. Its not the Server Ops. There is a very wide variety of levels out there every night. People just keep playing Subway, Halycon and Stadium. (Please note I AM NOT SLAMMING these levels) I've sat in levels for 10 or 15 minutes without having anyone join only to find that 5 more players joined SD.

2. The game is OLD. There are many other new games out there that people will try before they pick up a five year old game. There just arent that many places you could even find a Descent 3 CD.

3. Level designers leaving the community or just not making any new levels. No one really plays new levels for whatever reason so designers get fed up with not having their levels even tryed let alone played for any length of time. Designers bring new life to the game whether by making new and interesting mods or even just something different.

4. A general disinterest in the game. Many current players are losing interest in the game. I remember a post where someone said that most of the people that read this BB don't even play the game. So you have a Descent 3 Community that doesn't even play Descent 3 (Dont thing I'll ever understand that). I don't think skill level or getting owned in games is a reason that people dont play. Personally I've been playing this game for five years now and get owned regularly by many players. I've even given up on thinking I'll ever get any better but I still have fun playing.

There my 2 cents worth.

[Lothar]

you have a Descent 3 Community that doesn't even play Descent 3

Part of that is because it's not a Descent 3 community -- it's a Descent community. There are 2 other games in this series, and some of us are here mostly because of D1 or D2. Others are here mostly because of single player.

Also, some of us have known each other for 5 years or more, and our friendships are more important than Descent, so many who've moved on from the game have not moved on from the friendships.

Not surprisingly, this means a lot of people here really don't play D3 multi.

[Krom]

I played a 1v1 game in Descent 3 today by request, I played acceptably, missed some obvious shots, got blindly lucky on others, carelessly failed to dodge a few things that I should have. I may play another game tonight after dinner.

Quite frankly, the time to reform had already passed 3-4 years ago. It is too late for this game now, enjoy what is left and stop bickering.

[Top Gun]

I don't think it's too late, though. We still have the opportunity to revitalize the Descent genre. Case in point: right now, I'm in college. A few people from my dorm have seen me playing one of the Descent games and have become interested. With any luck, I may be able to get one or two of them to try it out, and maybe even start playing. People don't just need to hear about Descent; they need to see it being played and actually try it out, either through a friend or through the demo, to really understand it. My version of spreading the "Good News of Descent" would be to set up a kiosk in a shopping mall with a few people playing a LAN . There's another, better option though: what about something like G4 Tech TV? Having something on there about Descent, in whatever form, would grab the attention of a large number of gamers/computer nerds. Stuff like this is what we need to think about. We need to go big to gaming sites like Gamespot and Gamespy, to let people know that the ten-year-old marvel of a game called Descent has not yet been forgotten. The more we shout out to the world, the more some people will start to take notice. This is a challenge we need to meet, but I believe there are still enough dedicated souls in this community to accept it.

[Vindicator]

Its a game, not a religion. Stop treating it as such.

/me ducks

[kurupt]

i think we need to just abandon d3 and hope high octane comes through. when the game is almost done, getting it on G4 would be a huge advertisement bonus as alot of computer nerds watch that channel. also an ad on gamespy featuring the game would help get the name out too.

lets just hope the game doesnt flop.

[Top Gun]

Vindicator, Descent is life. Shut up .

kurupt, while I greatly appreciate what HighOctane is doing, I'm not going to write off the Descent games because of the game they're developing. That would be like telling people to stop playing, say, Counterstrike because Doom 3 came out. It's the same FPS style of gameplay, but you'd never be able to say that it was the same game. The same holds true for Descent and HighOctane's game; they're completely different things, but it's possible to play and enjoy both, just as many people play Counterstrike and Doom 3. I, for one, will keep playing D3 after HighOctane releases their game.

[Top Gun]

I agree that the CS/Doom 3 thing was pushing it; I don't know anything about either game's community . My point is that, even if HighOctane is a great game, I'm not going to stop playing D3, in the same way that some people who play D3 still play D1/D2. I'll simply have 2 games to play instead of one .

[Kyouryuu]

Sorry, but i find this attetude a bit strange. "I play for fun. I don't care about frags, but if i as a newbie gets owned i will leave this game." To me, it sounds like an urge to be the top player. The guy that owns. And paying a lot of attention to the frag counts.

To you. That's actually not what I'm saying at all.

Some people play a game to have fun, and that's the only objective. They have no interest in honing their skills for years to "master" it.

You can jump into a Quake game or an Unreal game for a few minutes and have fun just walking around spraying weapons around. You'll get killed sometimes, but you'll just as likely kill others. The pacing is so frantic and the kill/deaths so fast that you lose yourself in the experience of the game. Scores don't mean much. Even if you died constantly, you'd still get a lucky kill every now and then. Even the casual player can sometimes be fortunate.

That's not really the case in Descent, where people have played the game for eons and there's little new blood coming in. In any given game, you don't get a balance of old farts and fresh blood. You get stale old farts playing in stale old levels where the textures are peeling from years of wear and tear. You play a level for years and you're bound to "master" it at some point. The problem with Descenters is that they stick to these "home levels" like flies to dung. No one wants to be shown up in that unfamiliar level people don't play, thus maintaining this uneven and unbalanced playing field.

Perhaps the reason why Subway Dancer became as popular as it is could be out of reaction to old farts sticking to Abend and Indika. Subway has all of the features of a "newbie level," most notably the overpowered weapons. These are what the "pros" whine about the most in Subway Dancer. But, at the same time, they are also what effectively levels the playing field. Newbies or those tired of getting their butts kicked by the veterans started to gravitate to Subway Dancer where kills are more sporadic and random, and deaths are quick and fast (i.e. the Quake principle).

So, Subway Dancer could be a reaction to the problem. Look, it's great and all that people want to take the time to "master" a game. But some of us have busy lives and don't have time to play in servers constantly. And while it's not an expectation to be the best there ever was without practice, like bowling, even the most random casual gamer should get a strike periodically.

[Gooberman]

Split to "Reforming attitudes (was "It is time to reform")"

[BfDiDDy]

Post moved to split thread.

[Krom]

One small thing that I can think of that clearly does not help the community is the way dedicated servers have to change levels. In order to change maps you either need a custom MN3 file (which most people dont know how to do) or you need to completely stop the server and restart it. We could have plenty more levels in play if servers werent always running just one level rotations, this would also boost the likelyhood of people finding new and interesting levels that they like.

[Trackball]

Lets talk about playing the actual game. We don't need to write 20 paragraphs about some inferior clan.

[pipsqueak10]

Pip holds up a shield in front of MS Trackball to protect him from the impending onslaught of flaming arrows!

[Krom]

Thatâ??s wrong pipsqueak, you should have done what any intelligent forum poster would have done. Pointed the swarm in his direction so they will target and incinerate him, leaving you comfortable drinking a cool soft-drink standing on the sidelines.

[Kyouryuu]

One small thing that I can think of that clearly does not help the community is the way dedicated servers have to change levels.

Very true.

Most Unreal servers have an automatic polling system where players get to vote on the next level to be played. Majority wins, and those who don't have the level watch as it is automatically downloaded to them.

Descent 3 really needed a system like that.

[Instig8]

When I've felt so concerned about "our" D3 community, I recommend that we go down to the local mall, and give away free copies of the game while chanting:

"Hare Hare ... D3 ! D3 ! D3 ! Hare Hare ! 6DF .. ! 6DF .. 6DF !"...

whoo hoo

The biggest probem is finding the people to actually organize a d3 function like Califest. We can give out as many CDs as we please... will anybody come?

EkB, ur a cool dood... I'm always looking to help keep this community going.

Anybody who wants to keep the descent LAN community going in Los Angeles, gimme an email at instig80@yahoo.com or call me at 1-714-349-5918.

Thanks. --I