INGUS wages war against D3's Greatest threat.....of the now!

XeonJr · Post by **XeonJr** » Sat Oct 02, 2004 11:19 pm

/me sits back and waits for ingus's ownage of vangaurd

Liquid Fire · Post by **Liquid Fire** » Sat Oct 02, 2004 11:49 pm

Does anyone else here remember the start of subway dancer? I remember lots of comments like "Hey that's a cool looking level" and "cool weapons"...you know, back when constructive criticism was the norm. Anyways, I too feel this level is being way overplayed, but this is starting to get idiotic. First off, whatever you think this level is, it is not atan's fault that it got that way. While I'm sure he enjoys its success, I'm also sure he did not anticipate having so may people attack him for having such a wildly successful level. Also, declaring war against a level is just...well...I really don't think I have the capability to finish that sentence. If you want to get people to stop playing subway dancer, GET OFF YOUR BUTT AND MAKE A BETTER LEVEL. Don't just complain about it and declare some kind of crusade against anyone who so much as fires off a frag in there.

There are better ways to handle things like this. Also, you might already have a better level had you not driven off some of the best level designers because they designed levels that you didn't like.

Spaceboy · Post by **Spaceboy** » Sat Oct 02, 2004 11:53 pm

vanguards right, let them have their level, if you go stuff up the level with people doing i dont know what it might drive some people away from d3, and its been dying for a while... its been holding up the past month though, we dont, or at least i dont want another problem like a few months ago when u couldnt walk into a level without getting flamed for nearly anything u did.

heck callin them noobs i hevnt ever seen u play beofre.

Skyalmian · Post by **Skyalmian** » Sun Oct 03, 2004 12:18 am

Don't just complain about it and declare some kind of crusade against anyone who so much as fires off a frag in there.

If they won't come to us, then we'll go to them. We'll master the use of the uberunbalanced weapons to the point where they can't stand them anymore. Like Krom said: they'll wish SD was never invented.

GET OFF YOUR BUTT AND MAKE A BETTER LEVEL.

It's a downward trend, pal. For them to play another level, the weapons have to be more insanely powerful -- as in, cater to their I-want-very-easy-kills desire.

Jon the Great · Post by **Jon the Great** » Sun Oct 03, 2004 12:40 am

Skyalmian wrote:It's a downward trend, pal. For them to play another level, the weapons have to be more insanely powerful -- as in, cater to their I-want-very-easy-kills desire.

This isn't too uncommon especially in older games. Take UT 2003 for example, almost all games played online now have heavy modding for insanely powerful weapons.

IMO, the best idea at this point is to set up a rotation of levels on the servers. So that there are some nights when none of the servers are hosting this level and some nights when it is hosted.
This should encourage people to try new levels.

kurupt · Post by **kurupt** » Sun Oct 03, 2004 1:17 am

Spaceboy wrote:heck callin them noobs i hevnt ever seen u play beofre.

you're way out of your league skillwise with the people in this thread, kid.

Jon the Great · Post by **Jon the Great** » Sun Oct 03, 2004 1:42 am

kurupt wrote:you're way out of your league skillwise with the people in this thread, kid.

Was that a flame?
Before you start something, know that Spaceboy has been playing this game a LONG time.
He's pretty damn good, speaking from experience.

Ferno · Post by **Ferno** » Sun Oct 03, 2004 1:49 am

heh this should be fun.. looks like I get to pop someone soon.

kurupt · Post by **kurupt** » Sun Oct 03, 2004 1:56 am

it wasn't intended to be a flame. i was trying to give him a heads up that he's picking a fight that he doesn't want to be in.

it doesn't matter if he's been playing a long time or not, he was pretty much calling vlider a newb, and i know vlider would beat the daylights out of him.

hell, if you want to get defensive i'll install the game and play him if you want me to, i'll even play you both 2v1. loser shuts the fvck up.

deal?

Infamous Ingus · Post by **Infamous Ingus** » Sun Oct 03, 2004 4:50 am

Vanguard wrote:Ignus, as for Subway dancer, I take it you're just joking around and not serious about trying to get rid of it.
If you're serious, you need a life, which I think you really do need one.
I don't care for subway dancer, but what's the point in threathening a level? That's so lame. Only kids who have nothing better to do would say such garbage as that.

Ingus appreciates you taking out the time to join the dbb just to speak your mind to Ingus.

Its 6:30 am, ingus just got off graveyard shift and is now enjoying a "pecan waffle."

And as Ingus DEVOURS his pecan waffle he just wants to say:

Vanguard, Ingus no speak no engless.

zzzZZzzzzzz sleepy time.

Krom · Post by **Krom** » Sun Oct 03, 2004 8:13 am

Heh @ spaceboy being good, that guy has never lasted more then 3 deaths in any game that I have played him in. Actually no, I take that back, one time I did kill him 4 times in a row before he left, he only looks good because he ONLY plays total newbies for any length of time.

Zero! · Post by **Zero!** » Sun Oct 03, 2004 11:48 am

zero withdraws from the quest to destroy all sd newbs because the servers suck ass for me

ArcherOmega · Post by **ArcherOmega** » Sun Oct 03, 2004 2:31 pm

Subway Dancer pilots are experienced gamers and exceptional pilots. If you hate a level, that's your business, but don't stereotype & flame the pilots.

kurupt · Post by **kurupt** » Sun Oct 03, 2004 3:16 pm

ArcherOmega wrote:Subway Dancer pilots are experienced gamers and exceptional pilots. If you hate a level, that's your business, but don't stereotype & flame the pilots.

no, they arent. experienced maybe, because i suppose they have been playing subway dancer a long time. but exceptional pilots? those guys are at the bottom of the barrel. have you actually seen an exceptional d3 pilot? they dont play in SD.

i cant speak for ingus, but its not the level i hate. the level is fun once in awhile. it is indeed the pilots i dislike. all they do is play a level with so much weapon modding that kills dont take any form of skill anymore and then they brag about how much awesomer they are than you. the ones that play SD just for fun and keep coming back for the fun factor are ok in my book. its the ballsy newbs that come to bulletin boards thinkin they're hot ★■◆● because they can nab a 3:1 ratio in subway dancer that bug me.

Spaceboy · Post by **Spaceboy** » Sun Oct 03, 2004 5:33 pm

eh krom?

u wish.

anyways, SD IS a level, might not be 100% d3 anways but why would you want to drive them out? amazez me d3 is dying, and i still see immature 30 year olds chasin people away from d3.

kurupt · Post by **kurupt** » Sun Oct 03, 2004 5:38 pm

Spaceboy wrote:anyways, SD IS a level, might not be 100% d3 anways but why would you want to drive them out? amazez me d3 is dying, and i still see immature 30 year olds chasin people away from d3.

i agree with you there.

i dont think he wants to drive them out of d3, just out of the level so they will play with the rest of us. you really cant include players who only play 1 level as part of our community, because by only playing subway dancer they are choosing not to participate in it.

if we got the SD players to realize that d3 is fun without 1 shot kills weapons in abundance our community would probably double in size.

Zero! · Post by **Zero!** » Sun Oct 03, 2004 5:46 pm

nicely said K

Liquid Fire · Post by **Liquid Fire** » Sun Oct 03, 2004 5:58 pm

Ok, that's nice to think about but let's look at what will really happen.

1: Some smack-talk elitist comes in and starts kicking everybody's tailpipe.

2: newbs start to think that all descenters must be jerks and stop playing.

3: instead of doubling in size, the community shrinks to half.

Instead, why don't people just go in there and start inviting the "one-hit-kill newbs" to matches where you will teach them how to really play descent? Invite them to clans. Play games with them. Chat alot. Get them interested in other levels/mods. Most of all, make the other levels look more enticing. It's better to have them going into new levels because they think it will be fun than to have them going to new levels because they can't stand the one they were previously in. To a newb, it's like having a hacker ingame. (I'm NOT saying anyone's a hacker. It's just a comparison) They just get shot up alot and can't do anything. Eventually, the would just get frustrated. And frustration is not what we should shoot for here.

I think people do need to get out of subway dancer, but you guys have the wrong attitude and are going in the wrong direction.

saucerocream · Post by **saucerocream** » Sun Oct 03, 2004 6:17 pm

what`s SUBWAY DANCER?

Krom · Post by **Krom** » Sun Oct 03, 2004 6:28 pm

Spaceboy wrote:eh krom? u wish.

I've done it at least 7 times now, I think Crown and my personal record had you out of the game in less then 30 seconds.

Top Gun · Post by **Top Gun** » Sun Oct 03, 2004 7:19 pm

Liquid Fire wrote:Ok, that's nice to think about but let's look at what will really happen.

1: Some smack-talk elitist comes in and starts kicking everybody's tailpipe.

2: newbs start to think that all descenters must be jerks and stop playing.

3: instead of doubling in size, the community shrinks to half.

Instead, why don't people just go in there and start inviting the "one-hit-kill newbs" to matches where you will teach them how to really play descent? Invite them to clans. Play games with them. Chat alot. Get them interested in other levels/mods. Most of all, make the other levels look more enticing. It's better to have them going into new levels because they think it will be fun than to have them going to new levels because they can't stand the one they were previously in. To a newb, it's like having a hacker ingame. (I'm NOT saying anyone's a hacker. It's just a comparison) They just get shot up alot and can't do anything. Eventually, the would just get frustrated. And frustration is not what we should shoot for here.

I think people do need to get out of subway dancer, but you guys have the wrong attitude and are going in the wrong direction.

Well said LF

. While I have nothing against Subway Dancer as a particular variety of D3 level, I do think there's too many people who play it exclusively. There is a right way to get them to try new levels, but doing it the wrong way will just lose us that many more players.

Admiral Thrawn · Post by **Admiral Thrawn** » Sun Oct 03, 2004 8:16 pm

It's human nature to want to take the easy way out. There's nothing we can do to change that. Yea, you talk about training and developing new players to the game, but I'm going to be honest with ya. Most players who do come to the game aren't going to spend the time that we have in order to get good at the game.

Not to mention that D3 has just lost it's luster in the gaming community as well as a large portion of d3 fans.

Kyouryuu · Post by **Kyouryuu** » Sun Oct 03, 2004 8:25 pm

Admiral Thrawn wrote:It's human nature to want to take the easy way out. There's nothing we can do to change that. Yea, you talk about training and developing new players to the game, but I'm going to be honest with ya. Most players who do come to the game aren't going to spend the time that we have in order to get good at the game.

Damn straight.

And now you know why Subway Dancer is popular. It has that sort of chaotic and sporadic fragging action that appeals to Quake and Unreal Tournament players.

It doesn't make them "inferior" pilots. They are perfectly good at their own levels. If they are inferior for sticking to one level with "overpowered" weapons, then I submit to you every last Descenter who has played Halcyon for the last three years.

Newbies got tired of getting chewed up in the ancient levels of yore. Somewhere between 1996 and today, the gaming landscape changed, folks. Gamers are more impulsive today than they used to be. There aren't many gamers who fit the description of the Descent elite, who commit themselves to a game and practice regularly until they become good at it. The average gamer today wants to jump into a multiplayer game, score a few kills, have a few deaths, and call it a day. For them, Subway Dancer fulfills that criteria. Don't like it? Tough. That's human nature.

WarAdvocat · Post by **WarAdvocat** » Sun Oct 03, 2004 10:32 pm

Kyouryuu wrote:It doesn't make them "inferior" pilots. They are perfectly good at their own levels. If they are inferior for sticking to one level with "overpowered" weapons, then I submit to you every last Descenter who has played Halcyon for the last three years.

The difference is, you take a really good only-halcyon pilot and put him in a different level, give him a few minutes to learn the layout, he'll be kicking some butt...

Take a really good only-subway dancer pilot and put in him in a different level and...

...he leaves in a few minutes, because he died 30x and had only gotten 4 kills, so he goes to subway dancer, runs around and drops cyclones on the floor if he sees another ship out of the corner of his eye as he screams around the level, avoiding confrontation if at all possible.

Now that's not to say that quality pilots don't play SD....Just that given any choice whatsoever, they wouldn't.

I don't know the answer to this dilemma, but I wish there was a way to take these poor inexperienced pilots, and teach them to fly other levels, rather than subway dancer

Grendel · Post by **Grendel** » Sun Oct 03, 2004 11:06 pm

WarAdvocat wrote:Take a really good only-subway dancer pilot and put in him in a different level and...

...he leaves in a few minutes, because he died 30x and had only gotten 4 kills, so he goes to subway dancer, [..]

I don't know the answer to this dilemma, but I wish there was a way to take these poor inexperienced pilots, and teach them to fly other levels, rather than subway dancer

Don't kill them 30:4

WarAdvocat · Post by **WarAdvocat** » Mon Oct 04, 2004 9:32 am

I don't...there's usually a few other guys flying in there too you know.

Me, I stink at Descent lately

But that's because I'm on a new config. Maybe I'll hit my old level of competence again.

Lots of brain re-wiring yet to go, however.

ArcherOmega · Post by **ArcherOmega** » Mon Oct 04, 2004 1:52 pm

kurupt wrote:...those guys are at the bottom of the barrel. exceptional pilot? ... dont play in SD.
...it is indeed the pilots i dislike. all they do is play a level with so much weapon modding that kills dont take any form of skill anymore and then they brag about how much awesomer they are than you.
...its the ballsy newbs that come to bulletin boards thinkin they're hot **** because they can nab a 3:1 ratio in subway dancer that bug me.

I don't see any SD player here bragging "King of the Hill". I do see a lot of talkin-trash flaming of stereotyped SD pilots (based solely on INGUSâ??S experience with one pilot, SPACEPRINCESS) whose faces are being pushed into the sand under a boot of innuendo.

Infamous Ingus wrote:...Pilots killing other pilots without even fighting...
...Bussin 200kills outta dem hoes!...
...Ingus will systematically dispose of each and everyone of you little motherfacks from one end of the subway to the other.
...You Subway Dancerites reek of NO SKILL! You're facking up the chemical balance that NuB had established!
...Ingus is calling out all you subway faglets...
...REAL PYRO PILOTS ... are stronger in the force than you... don't cry and call them HACKS! Just shut up and take da @ss whoopins!

Grendel wrote:Hehe -- â?¦sounds like easy kills

[TA]One wrote:LOL. â?¦a waste of time.
Why don't you get your frustrations out â?¦ where the pickings aren't as easy.

snoopy wrote:Yeah, SD = wussland â?¦- all they do is run away like little girls.

WarAdvocat wrote:...require 'no skill'...
...cripple the development of newbie or less experienced pilots who fly there, leaving them unable (and unwilling) to cope with the wider world of d3 without extensive retraining.

El Ka Bong wrote:...my six year old son ... claims that SubWay Prancer is for "beginners"!

Zero! wrote:â?¦destroy all subway dancer freaks and geeks.

SuzyQ wrote:â?¦ just kill, hit and run just like they do, bunch od pu$$ies. Maybe theu will get tired and dont come back.

Sligar wrote:skill is not as big a factor with Sd...Its a great refuge for noobs from getting their butts handed to them in every other level.
...noobs...get frustrated and leave after getting beat 40-0 for the hundredth time.

WarAdvocat wrote:â?¦Halcyon and Veins (instant death, no kills and much frustration for them), or it's subghey dancer, a level that requires maybe 2 of the multitude of skills required to play D3 elsewhere.
...this level attracts newbies, then cripples them in such a way that they are unable to play descent 3 in any other level.
...Subway Dancer people play in other levels. They last 3, 6, 10 deaths, and leave.
â?¦they can't buy a freaking kill.

Doods- totally uncool. This isnâ??t even rowdiness. This is just destructive, wicked, sarcasm.

Lothar · Post by **Lothar** » Mon Oct 04, 2004 2:01 pm

ArcherOmega wrote:I do see a lot of talkin-trash flaming of stereotyped SD pilots (based solely on INGUSâ??S experience with one pilot, SPACEPRINCESS)

"based soley on INGUS'S experience"? No -- just very well illustrated by it. We've all played in Subway enough times to know the average skill level of those pilots. The reason the stereotype exists is because the vast majority of SD pilots couldn't hold their own for 5 minutes in any other level -- in other words, the stereotype is true. I'm a pretty average pilot, but I can spot "skill", and what I see in SD is not "skill" it's "run away and throw overpowered missiles around while single-chording", even from the best SD pilots.

There might be some SD pilots who really are pretty good overall, but if there are, they're few and far between.

Spaceboy · Post by **Spaceboy** » Mon Oct 04, 2004 4:34 pm

krom, key word, u AND crown, and anywas i only leave a level in below 30 seconds if its the wrong level. 9 times in 8 years? amazing. take this to somewhere else then here, like in chat. ill be glad to talk to u there (not really) but not here, cause it really has nothing to do with this topic.

archers right, there is a ton of flaming.

there might be different skills, like where to place an acid homer, or a triple fusion blob, or time falling napalm right on any level skill pilots, or where to stick on earthshaker, so stick a SD pilot in halcyon, they might not do so good, but stick them in skybox. theyd do pretty good... theres very few pilots who might be good at any level.

El Ka Bong · Post by **El Ka Bong** » Mon Oct 04, 2004 4:56 pm

So, to settle this discussion in ACTTION !..! Let's all go Party in Skin Like Winter Shall we ..? Please ! BP's allowed !

There are tonnes of great levels to undo the Noob, the bichording, chuck'n-runner aspiring D3 pilot !

.. Even a medium boater level like Rome might tempt people away from the chuck'n run strategy that Subway Prancer ellicits.

.. SkyBox just re-inforces Chuck'n run tactics, however the weapons aren't modded to a maddness like in Subway Prancer. All D3 pilots have played a chuck'n run Skyboat ! (well Birdseye just sits and waits for his kills... he has no need to 'run'..!)

Or howabout all the chuck'n run artists meet in a TAnks-only 14 player Indica ! ... At least there the smear-fest is "intentional". Most of us old school pilots got our Noobie-bumps beaten out of us in a 14 player Indica, .. way back when...

BAAL · Post by **BAAL** » Mon Oct 04, 2004 5:04 pm

I think I am going to try, without stepping on people's toes, to make a point that others have been trying to make. The issue is weapon balance. Some levels have it, others don't. I'm not gonna slam SD, I have only ever flown it once. Now I certainly know I am not an elite pilot, however I do know that I can and have held my own with most pilots. I have also flown versus pilots of all skill levels.

In my opinion, certain levels are well balanced, and there are others that are not. When you fly In a well balanced level thats not "overloaded" with high-power-one-shot-kill type weapons, you can clearly see differences in skill between players. Players are required to do more "work" for their kills. This "work" as you might call it might be said to be the same "work" required to improve at D3. What i mean by that is without the need or require to perform this "work" the pilots who fly in the lvls that are unbalanced are stagnating in their skill development. I would urge all those who wish to improve their own skills to make an effort to try a more challenging level, and for that matter, against someone better than you are currently.

I'm not saying abandon the so called "missle boating" lvls altogether, it is fun to blast around with guns and missles galore...but...playing only lvls that are "boaters" isnt really gonna improve your game much.

I speak from experience on this one, I frequented Indika, Skybox, Brainsalad alot in my early days, and you know why? Cause those levels let me get kills easier and fairly frequently. I'll go so far as to say i WAS an SD type pilot early on,even whoring the Black Pyro. It wasn't till I joined up with my first team/clan that i started to realize any of this....from then on i played alot of other teams, got my @ss shot off many times....but i learned bit by bit. D3k played a part of this on both sides of the coin. Dealt me a few beatings early on, and then having the opportunity of learning alongside some very good players later on. Playing in decent lvls with and against strong players on a regular basis is what allowed me to improve my skills that I had.

Sorry for rambling a bit, but i just thought i would send a message out to those who have not yet grasped this concept(or maybe just have more fun blasting missle after missle), that I think expanding your selection of lvls that you play to include some more challenging ones will foster a sense of pride and accomplishment in those who truly wish to improve.

Krom · Post by **Krom** » Mon Oct 04, 2004 5:24 pm

Spaceboy wrote:krom, key word, u AND crown, and anywas i only leave a level in below 30 seconds if its the wrong level. 9 times in 8 years? amazing. take this to somewhere else then here, like in chat. ill be glad to talk to u there (not really) but not here, cause it really has nothing to do with this topic.

Heheh, whatever

you were trying to play, if I join and I'm in the wrong level, I quit in <1 second and go to the correct level. Plus, that 7 times was in the last 6-12 months, my memory doesnt work too well beond that because I used to play more and things blended together.

So far every time you have joined a going game not on my team you have left pretty quickly, even when crown and I were on opposing teams. I think you have only done that in halcyon tho, you have spent longer in veins or skybox, etc, probably because you just ran into me less, halcyon is just not your thing I guess.

Actually being on oppisite teams is why crown and I can work so well together in halcyon, because we fight each other so much we knew exactly how to cover and stay out of each others way when we flew on the same team.

Spaceboy · Post by **Spaceboy** » Mon Oct 04, 2004 8:31 pm

Krom, your stupid. Most times when ive played u i looked under my stats and i usually have u 2:1 usually bout 10 kills and 5 deaths to u. to tell u the truth i dont think ive even see u 7-9 times the past year. I dont give a crap about crown or you in a level against me or not against me, but obviously your thinking of stuff i dont remember, or didnt happen. dont go being a hypocrite around here cause it wont go to well.

kurupt · Post by **kurupt** » Mon Oct 04, 2004 8:41 pm

lets just settle this. krom and i vs jon the great and spaceboy in a level of their choice.

Liquid Fire · Post by **Liquid Fire** » Mon Oct 04, 2004 9:15 pm

I would just like to point out that this thread is about ingus vs subway dancer, not kurupt vs jon and spaceboy.

Kyouryuu · Post by **Kyouryuu** » Mon Oct 04, 2004 9:37 pm

WarAdvocat wrote:The difference is, you take a really good only-halcyon pilot and put him in a different level, give him a few minutes to learn the layout, he'll be kicking some butt...

Maybe. Or he'll be looking for the energy centers to camp in with his Fusion Cannon at the ready.

I just think it's funny that the elite here are kicking and screaming about the level while, at this moment, quite a few pilots are flying around SD and having a good time. Why don't you go and challenge those weenies in their home level if you're so tough?

*sigh* Remember when video games were about just having fun? Or is that concept lost on egomaniacal whiners who have to be the best and act all quien es mas macho?

I also think it's kinda' funny how people have honed such skill in Halcyon. It was never built as a skill level. The emphasis was supposed to be on just chaotic spray-n-pray. I guess I failed in that cause.

Spaceboy · Post by **Spaceboy** » Mon Oct 04, 2004 9:48 pm

Thank you lf! lol..

halcyon with burning indika... wats skill is if u can own with a pheonix in that level

Zero! · Post by **Zero!** » Mon Oct 04, 2004 9:52 pm

SB no offence but krom will murder you. u havnt even seen most of d3s greatest pilots because u stick in those crapy levels like skybox. and because of that u think ur a d3 god.

Tangaroa · Post by **Tangaroa** » Mon Oct 04, 2004 10:19 pm

Well, this may be somewhat off topic, or somewhat flameworthy, but, I think that people should probably play in some new levels instead of the same ones like the several variations of varicose veins, or stadium, or subway dancer, over, and over, and over, and over again.

Mostly, I see the same levels being played, nd see very few of other third party levels, like Zion or twilight, or some of the other quite nice looking levels, I very rarely see the original D3 levels being played, like Taurus and it would also be nice to see some of them occasionaly.

The problem is, there is nobody in those servers when they do exist.

Clayman · Post by **Clayman** » Mon Oct 04, 2004 10:25 pm

krom, key word, u AND crown, and anywas i only leave a level in below 30 seconds if its the wrong level. 9 times in 8 years? amazing.

Spaceboy, I've played you quite a lot, both in my RIP and III days, the latter of which I spent most of my time in Halcyon under alias. Krom is not lying, I've seen on many occasions you leaving after getting killed a few times. You're also been known to leave levels or go to observer after being hit or catching on fire, so I don't think you have any room to talk. As for the "AND" bit, 2 players shouldn't phase you at all. Ask Krom, I've played on many occasions against both of them + Monkey, Kurupt, Skyalmian, and other D3k's, at least one time with 5 of them on the opposite team, but I've never run from them.