Kerry to be excommunicated

[Dedman]

So it's ok to molest 'em just as long as you bring 'em into the world first?

http://www.cwnews.com/news/viewstory.cfm?recnum=32830

[woodchip]

Connection refused. Dedman, you may have to copy and paste.

[Dedman]

try it again. The link can be a bit finicky.

[Top Gun]

'Bout time. Pseudo-Catholics like him make me sick. Apparently, "practice what you preach" has no real meaning for Kerry.

And Dedman, quit it with the snide remarks.

[Dedman]

'Bout time. Pseudo-Catholics like him make me sick. Apparently, "practice what you preach" has no real meaning for Kerry.

And Dedman, quit it with the snide remarks.

I call 'em like I see 'em.

[Avder]

Like its really a loss being kicked out of the catholic church.

[IsAB]

Funny stuff, after following the show called 'politics' around here i thought they couldnt get any lower Not exactly glad i was wrong.

[Gooberman]

First: This article is all fluff.

That being said, the church has come out strongly against capital punishment, should they excommunicate anyone who supports it?

[Top Gun]

Gooberman, the Church recognizes the right of a government to protect its citizens, and as such, it does allow capital punishment if absolutely necessary. However, for obvious reasons, the very strong leaning is for life without parole. In contrast, Church teaching against abortion is clear-cut, has been consistent for centuries, and cannot be ignored as a political tool. Anyone who has an abortion or aids someone in obtaining an abortion is automatically excommunicated; Kerry's actions encourage abortion. There's no debate; this should have happened a long time ago, and to ever other Catholic politician who acts the same way.

Dedman, so apparently 0.5% of a certain group represent the behaviors of the entire group? I think you're "seeing it" wrong there, buddy.

Wow Avder, yet another bash on religion? I never would have expected it .

[Dedman]

Anyone who has an abortion or aids someone in obtaining an abortion is automatically excommunicated

But a Priest who molests a little boy isn't. That doesn't seem right. That was my point.

[Testiculese]

That's hysterical! What a crock.

[Gooberman]

Gooberman, the Church recognizes the right of a government to protect its citizens, and as such, it does allow capital punishment if absolutely necessary.

The Church does not support Capital Punishment. I have a feeling that if I back you into the corner your going to give "absolutely necessary" a pretty broad definition. So let me just say that the way it is done in the U.S., the Catholic church fully denounces. In fact I believe the only situation in which the Church approves of it is if no means of detaining the person are available. This is never the case in the United States.

So if you support the way it is done in the U.S., then you are going against the current Catholic Church.

Edit: here we go

John Paul II wrote that execution is only appropriate "in cases of absolute necessity, in other words, when it would not be possible otherwise to defend society. Today, however, as a result of steady immprovement in the organization of the penal system, such cases are very rare, if not practically nonexistent."

There for, should any politician who supports the death penalty in the United States, and who is Catholic, be excommunicated?

Someone's faith should not be a political tool.

[Tyranny]

In contrast, Church teaching against abortion is clear-cut, has been consistent for centuries, and cannot be ignored as a political tool.

You might want to re-think the logic of that statement

[Fusion pimp]

Being excommunicated from the Catholic church would be a blessing.

B-

[Top Gun]

And why is that, Tyranny? Some of the earliest Church documents, from the first century, speak out against abortion.

Dedman, let me reinforce that I think that the actions of those individuals are abhorrent and despicable, and I feel a great deal of sympathy for their victims, whose trust was taken advantage of. At the same time, however, there is a distinction between their actions and the abortion issue. For one thing, and I'm not sure if I'm stating in the clearest sense but bear with me, most sins do not automatically equate with excommunication, including murder. By Church guidelines, one should not receive the Eucharist while having knowingly committed a mortal sin, which is a serious sin that was committed with free will and full knowledge of its wrongness, until after making a thorough confession. After confessing one's sins and doing the required penance, including any practical restitution for one's crimes, one is absolved of the sin. Promoting and supporting abortion, however, is a step further. By fundamental Catholic teaching, human life begins at the moment of conception; by supporting abortion, Kerry is doing something akin to supporting the Holocaust, at least in the eyes of the Church. Because abortion is directly prohibited under canon law, Kerry is committing the equivalent of a heresy, an excommunicable offense. If you still don't see the distinction, I'll try my best to make it clearer.

One other note: I was really sensitive to your earlier comment because I have become completely fed up with comedians, the media, and just anyone in general using the actions of less than one percent as being representative of the entire priesthood. I have known several priests throughout my life, and they have been among the most fundamentally good people I have ever met. It may seem like just a joke to you, but it cuts a lot deeper for me.

Gooberman, Church teaching on capital punishment is somewhat of a complicated issue. It is true that Pope John Paul II has denounced capital punishment in any form. However, his statements are not exactly the same as Church canon law, which does allow it under very limited circumstances. This is different than Church teaching on abortion, which I explained above. As for me personally, do I think that capital punishment is used far too frequently in this country? Definitely. Am I against capital punishment under any and all circumstances? That I honestly can't say. On one hand, it is within my human nature to feel that some people no longer deserve to live for the terrible crimes they have committed, seemingly without remorse. At the same time, I also realize that anyone can repent from the wrong that they have done, and I have read of many death row inmates who have done so. Also, more fundamentally, I realize that human beings cannot truly say whether one is worthy of death; this is not a power that is in our hands. I'm still working my way through this. I can say, however, that capital punishment and abortion do represent two different examples.

One more note: Kerry's faith is not being used as a political tool. He knows full well Church teaching on abortion and the consequences of publicly speaking contrary to it. He made this choice, and he has to face the consequences. If he feels that garnering votes is more important than remaining true to his own faith, then so be it; he seems to have already made that choice.

Edit: What are you talking about, Fusion pimp? No one is forcing Kerry to remain as a Catholic. He knows the consequences, and he has made that choice already. The excommunication would only make official what is already true.

[Dedman]

I know the Catholic church has it's laws and each one carries a different punishment if broken. Molesting a boy and aborting a fetus may carry different penalties. I understand this.

However, on a broader note, why does there have to be so many rules to worshiping God? This is one of my biggest problems with organized religion. If I want to worship God, it is between me and him. I am not going to allow anyone else to get in between us.

You can respond if you want to this post, but I am finished contributing to this thread.

[Gooberman]

Do we agree that the modern Catholic church is against the death penality -- in how it is performed in the United States?

If so, what does time have to do with anything? Kerry would be excommunicated by the modern church, a church that has made it pretty clear that the death penalty is wrong, as is abortion. Why does the fact that a decision by the church is more recent, allow pro-capital punishment conservatives "off the hook?" How would you feel if a conservative mainstream politician was excommunicated because he was pro-capital punishment?

Lets go at another angle, I was raised Catholic, have been through communion classes, confirmation classes, etc. As far as where I am at now, I just don't know. That being said, I have always beleived that the Catholic Church needs to allow female priests. This is a fundamental difference where I just believe that the church has "got it wrong." Should I be excommunicated for this? They have had this view point for quite some time, and I disagree with them. (Of course this is completely ignoring the fact that Kerry is pro-life, he just doesn't believe he should force his religion on others who don't share the same belief, I know you guys will eat that point alive, so I'm not really focusing on it).

Don't you think the Catholic Church's time is infinitely better spent trying to explain to members why they hold certain view points, rather then just remove anyone who holds an opposing viewpoint? I have talked to priests about my view about females being allowed to conduct mass, none of them recomended that I be removed from the church.

Also, thousands of Catholics exist who are pro-choice, should we excommunicate them all? Kerry has been "pro-choice" for years now, don't you find it horrible that it is only when he runs for president that people have a gripe?

Don't you agree that this is just being used as a political ploy, and a pretty horrid one at that?

[DrachPrime]

lol, who cares if he's excommunicated.... He's not running for President in Italy.

[Avder]

Wow Avder, yet another bash on religion? I never would have expected it .

Actually I was bashing the Catholic Church specifically, not the Christian Faith. I'm ok with pretty much every denomination of Christianity except Catholocism and some of the more extreme denominations.

I consider myself a Nondenominational Christian and believe that all church doctrines are matters of opinion because no one really knows what God thinks of most of what we do. All we have is the bible for guidelines and what God tells us indirectly through the environment around us.

As such, I dont think any true Christian would be very bothered by being excommunicated from the Catholic Church.

[Ferno]

If there's anything that bothers me more, it's organized religion.

Until Priests get it through their thick heads that it's wrong to molest alterboys i'm not giving them a single shread of respect. Not to mention their xenophobic and condescending ways to people that hold differing opinions and differing religions.

Yes I know there's exceptions to the rule. but I'm not talking about the exceptions.