I hope Ozzy sues

snoopy · Post by **snoopy** » Mon Oct 25, 2004 8:30 pm

So, I was driving through Dallas today, flippin through the stations when I come upon the familiar opening to "Crazy Train." I stopped flipping, and soon realized that it was different from the song I knew- then some dude started rapping- words completely different from Ozzies version. I'm not happy. I mean, I'm fine with there being all kinda of different music. I'm ok with people occasionally adapting ______ song that already exists to different music styles, as long as they keep the lyrics. That pissed me off, though. I hope Ozzy still has the rights to that song, and didn't give whatever the rapper's name was permission to use it, and sues his pants off.

CDN_Merlin · Post by **CDN_Merlin** » Mon Oct 25, 2004 8:31 pm

unless it's the exact match, he cn't do squat. But I agree with ya.

Vertigo 99 · Post by **Vertigo 99** » Mon Oct 25, 2004 9:17 pm

one of the coolest hiphop songs i've ever heard has, as a beat, one of the riffs from the who's "don't get fooled again." (it's really VERY obvious, it's a straight sample, no effects or anything done to "disguise it").

however, the artist in question had permission, as i'm sure this artist had permission from ozzy - so why the anger?

roid · Post by **roid** » Mon Oct 25, 2004 9:20 pm

what verti said. why assume he didn't have permission?

Testiculese · Post by **Testiculese** » Mon Oct 25, 2004 9:57 pm

What roid meant to wrote:why assume hope he didn't have permission?

ah, strikeout doesn't work...

roid, he's hoping the bastardization of a good song doesn't go unpunished.

I've had the mispleasure of hearing The Police get mauled in an extremely brainless, shitty, hip-hop disaster. (I'm sure it got high marks too, America is like that)

roid · Post by **roid** » Mon Oct 25, 2004 10:00 pm

testi: pst (strike) (/strike)

snoopy · Post by **snoopy** » Mon Oct 25, 2004 10:03 pm

Testi pretty well said it. I guess this is pretty much a hip hop sucks thread.

Avder · Post by **Avder** » Mon Oct 25, 2004 10:16 pm

Hip hop needs to DIE.

Duper · Post by **Duper** » Mon Oct 25, 2004 10:23 pm

Avder wrote:Hip hop needs to DIE.

W3RD!

...er.. is that hip hop? O_o May it do the way of disco .... to B grade movies.

Kyouryuu · Post by **Kyouryuu** » Mon Oct 25, 2004 11:30 pm

Rap and hiphop is widely known for swiping beats, lyrics, and sound samples from existing songs and calling it new. Personally, I despise both genres. I think it's music for those who lack musical talent. I still contend that last decade of really fun and interesting music was probably the 1980s. Before everything got so... corporate.

Sirius · Post by **Sirius** » Mon Oct 25, 2004 11:46 pm

Dude, these boards have people I actually agree with.

Another case in point - Enya's 'Boadicea' got ripped off not once, but TWICE, in different rap or hip-hop songs by separate artists. One had permission, as far as I can tell, but the other didn't... doh...

Edit: Oh, and in both, that background tune was half the song.

Ferno · Post by **Ferno** » Tue Oct 26, 2004 12:29 am

Little known fact: Artists don't have the rights to their own songs. it's in the contract that's signed with the labels.

Why do you think the RIAA keeps screaming about 'copyright infringment'?

Nitrofox125 · Post by **Nitrofox125** » Tue Oct 26, 2004 6:12 am

That would be "Let's Go" by Trick Daddy.... It's not just the Crazy Train notes they played over again for the song, it's the actual intro to the song, with some tracks of their own laid over it. But, it's just the intro that's repeated throughout the entire song. They had permission to use it AFAIK.

Will Robinson · Post by **Will Robinson** » Tue Oct 26, 2004 7:05 am

You can sample very short bits without permission, like Tone Loc did with Van Halen's Jamie's Cryin' when he made Funky Cold Medina I think he also played the sample backwards, very cool...he also used a Van Halen track on Wild Thing (can't remember the title). Anything more than a short sample will get you lawyers-up-the-butt syndrome faster than Ozzy can bite the head off a bat.

Anyway, even though I hate Rap I'd have to admit that Hip Hop has been a valid genre of music for a very long time, since long before Rap ever became popular.
Like any musical expression it's subjective, it's what the listener likes that matters.

I think music labels have bastardized Hip Hop just like they have bastardized other popular genres, that's why we find ourselves suffering Ashley Simpson's instead of celebrating the next Janis Joplin.

Iceman · Post by **Iceman** » Tue Oct 26, 2004 7:46 am

I want a piece of this ...

Hip Hop Sucks!

woodchip · Post by **woodchip** » Tue Oct 26, 2004 7:56 am

Hip hop and rap sukors monkey nuts. As Will points out, how long until a group like the Beatles or a single performer like Elvis comes along that generates the mass hysteria these two examples did.
Black music died when MoTown moved to California.

Vertigo 99 · Post by **Vertigo 99** » Tue Oct 26, 2004 8:38 am

As a fan of hiphop, let me defend this a bit...

First of all, to say that hiphop artists lack musical talent is one of the biggest falsehoods i've ever heard. Sure, people like Eminem, Puff Daddy, 50 Cent, etc, lack musical talent to an extreme. However, there are many non-mainstream hiphop artists that are more talented than a lot of rock groups I've heard.

I think the vast majority of you are judging hip-hop based on what you see and hear on MTV. However, NONE of the stuff on MTV is what hiphop is actually about.

It's akin to comparing britney spears and NYSYNC to good rock music.

As for sampling other media / songs for hiphop songs, i think it's much less "stealing" than it is paying an ommage to the original artist. In the song I was talking about that sampled the who's don't get fooled again, it's a song about issues very similar to what the original song dealt with - it's so much more than "this sounds cool, LETS STEAL IT" its "this is a great song with interesting points, lets use its beat to tell it our way, via hiphop."

Will Robinson wrote: Anyway, even though I hate Rap I'd have to admit that Hip Hop has been a valid genre of music for a very long time, since long before Rap ever became popular.
Like any musical expression it's subjective, it's what the listener likes that matters.

Thanks will. It's refreshing to hear something intelligent from you from time to time

BTW, educate yourself! It'd do you some good to listen to some good hiphop... try listening to Jurassic 5's "Great Expectations" or RJD2's "Ghostwriter" (an instrumental), and TRY to tell me that neither of these bands have musical talent.

TheCops · Post by **TheCops** » Tue Oct 26, 2004 9:34 am

Vertigo 99 wrote:As a fan of hiphop, let me defend this a bit...

try listening to Jurassic 5's "Great Expectations" or RJD2's "Ghostwriter" (an instrumental), and TRY to tell me that neither of these bands have musical talent.

hip-hop is like any other style. there's the .0005% that actually create and the other .9995% that rip off all the tricks that paved their way to easy money.

as much as computer music production has enhanced the sonic quality of songs it's also opened the doors to marketing over skill and creativity. i mean if you can worry more about your clothes and your look than you have to worry about keeping pitch and rhythm... wouldn't you try to milk the market with your repetitive diddy about "booty" and "rims"? better make sure you pay your electric bill, though.

the best hip-hop tune i ever heard was live at a bus shelter in minneapolis. one kid was keeping the beat on the shelters glass (he used his left palm for the bass drum his right middle finger nail for snare) and his cronies laid down the lyrics. i gave them like 10 bux.

any way...

YOU HAVE BEEN MARGINALIZED!!!!

Clayman · Post by **Clayman** » Tue Oct 26, 2004 9:37 am

Nothing new. Rock bands steal each other's riffs all the time anyway.

I'm not gonna join on the anti-rap/hip-hop band bandwagon, cause I think that some of it has quality, and I listen to some every now and then, though it's certainly not my main musical preference.

Plebeian · Post by **Plebeian** » Tue Oct 26, 2004 9:42 am

It's not that all hip-hop artists suck, it's just that almost all the popular ones do, in contrast to the 80s, which as was mentioned is pretty much the last solid decade of talented mainstream artists. We hit the early 90s, and everything started to go downhill. The talented artists became harder to find, and the popular stuff started to become corporate creations. These days, most popular music is crap, and the artists have little talent (or are allowed to only use a little by their producers), and everyone's using everyone else's songs.

Sort of like movies these days. There seems to be precious few good, new movies. Most are either ripped off, crap, or both. The corporate minds just try to figure out how to market things to make people show up and pay the money, and no one really cares much about originality or substance.

So I guess it's more of a condecension of the American public and the corporate minds behind the media than actually saying "rap sucks" or "hip-hop sucks" or heck, even "rock sucks". We need to get some of the smaller projects that still have talent and heart and get them known, because they deserve it, and we deserve it, because then it's less crap to have to put up with.

Nitrofox125 · Post by **Nitrofox125** » Tue Oct 26, 2004 4:06 pm

I wouldn't say Eminem has musical talent, but he has lyrical talent!! Ever listened to his actual lyrics? That guy would be an awesome poet! No kidding

Sirius · Post by **Sirius** » Tue Oct 26, 2004 6:38 pm

I've heard that said quite a lot.

I'm not completely sure myself. The ones I've heard seem okay lyrically, but nothing ground-breaking.

At least the more recent ones... the only less recent one I remember was that 'real slim shady' song, which was lyrically a complete waste of time.

I also understand where Vertigo is going with that. Although I find crap rock easier to stand than crap urban, most of the stuff you hear on the music channels is still junk. Hilary Duff? No thanks. Nickelback? Well, they're okay, but when you've heard one song, you've heard them all. Avril Lavigne... it's public knowledge she doesn't write ANY of her songs, and she's not an impressive singer either. Hyper-overrated.

Metallica have become less original as time went on... Green Day's latest offering is not really all that interesting compared to their previous work...

Blink-182 are an interesting case in that they are slightly more diverse these days than just a guitar, drums and a singer acting like he's trapped in his early teens... although I'm not sure exactly where they got the inspiration from.

Linkin Park actually do write their own music, although I can't say how much of it is ripped off.

And that covers most of the more popular 'rock' bands at the moment. Maybe two and a half have merit...

TheCops · Post by **TheCops** » Tue Oct 26, 2004 6:41 pm

lol!
i heard that rap today with the ozzy (randy rhodes) background.

none too impressed over here... are you sure they ain't trying to make a quick buck? are you sure they are "paying homage"?

LOLOLOL!

Robo · Post by **Robo** » Tue Oct 26, 2004 6:53 pm

Rock nor Hip-Hop for me...

I listen to Acid Jazz

</myinput>

Sirius · Post by **Sirius** » Tue Oct 26, 2004 6:56 pm

Well, at least Jazz is inspired, even if the majority of people find it quite boring.

Vertigo 99 · Post by **Vertigo 99** » Tue Oct 26, 2004 7:19 pm

TheCops wrote:lol!
i heard that rap today with the ozzy (randy rhodes) background.

none too impressed over here... are you sure they ain't trying to make a quick buck? are you sure they are "paying homage"?

LOLOLOL!

I haven't heard this song, but from the descriptions, it seems like crap.

What i meant is that GENERALLY hip hop artists are paying hommage. Of course, from time to time theres gonna be the dick stealing the song (Puff Daddy ripping off the Police, this song in question, apparently), but to judge all other hip hop on two songs seems a bit... well, closed minded. you don't think?

Beowulf · Post by **Beowulf** » Tue Oct 26, 2004 7:20 pm

i listen to some rap, but for the most part rap is limited to my party music, along with trance/techno. I can't stand the materialistic ripoffs though.

DCrazy · Post by **DCrazy** » Tue Oct 26, 2004 8:28 pm

If Puff Daddy had ripped off the Police with "Roxanne 2000", it would *not* be the final track on my "Best of Sting & The Police" CD.

Sirius · Post by **Sirius** » Tue Oct 26, 2004 9:26 pm

Take a sucky song and make it worse? Agreed, way to go...

TheCops · Post by **TheCops** » Tue Oct 26, 2004 9:38 pm

Vertigo 99 wrote:but to judge all other hip hop on two songs seems a bit... well, closed minded. you don't think?

of course, i'm a smart arse.
hip-hop producers were basically revolutionaries of the "sub-bass" in the late 80's... and there are many rap artists and producers i have respects for.

i can't listen to pop music at all now a days. but i'm knockin' on 32 years old so i ain't exactly the target audience.

from my perspective as a "songwriter" the last decade has been perty much "human waste on a piece of cardboard".

such as life, eh?

Kyouryuu · Post by **Kyouryuu** » Tue Oct 26, 2004 9:55 pm

The last pop music CD I actually bought was "Fallen" by Evanescence. Because, for once, there was actually a group with a female lead who could really sing and songs that seemed interesting and unique from the common whiny pop stuff today. Now, of course, realizing they had a good thing, the music industry ran "Bring Me to Life" into the ground and out the other end of the Earth, thus destroying whatever impact the song had.

The problem is, the Evanescences (Evanescenceii?) of the world are really few and far between when it comes to pop music.

For example, I could point to any random 1980s station and listen to music that is memorable. The 1980s was a fun decade for music. It was as if bands were first learning to toy around with synthesizers and electronic effects and the music was fun. Even though there were tons of one hit wonders, they were melodies that lasted. Even rap, back then, lyrically had a story that was usually positive in some way. But, in all, the 1980s was about fun, happy music. Heck, there was even a time when remixing retro 50s and 60s tunes was hip.

Try to contrast that to today's pop music. By and large, it's angry. Rap advocates killing others and taking revenge to get your "bling bling." Boy bands write whiny teen ballads about love or not getting their way. Pop divas lip sync. Tell me you can watch MTV or listen to the pop music station and not pick up an aura of general anger about the world. The message is pessimistic and violent.

Now, you can argue that "Oh, well, independent labels are doing unique things." And you're totally right. However, you cannot discount that MTV has to represent the tastes of the musical majority. If that weren't the case, they wouldn't be showing hiphop videos 24/7.

Of course, music reflects the times. And I tend to think we live in angry, violent times. We have a war going on and terrorists running around. We have a society where it's becoming difficult to really be heard. People, for whatever reason, feel oppressed by The Man. And the music, consequently, is lashing out at that. Back in the 80s, I think things were probably more halcyon. People wore ugly suits with large shoulder pads and watched MacGuyver and Transformers. Like I said, then things went completely corporate...

roid · Post by **roid** » Wed Oct 27, 2004 8:40 am

were Rage Against The Machine hip hop?

Vertigo 99 · Post by **Vertigo 99** » Wed Oct 27, 2004 9:39 am

not really, roid.

roid · Post by **roid** » Wed Oct 27, 2004 10:39 am

i believe i heard zack touting the greatness of hip-hop in a few of their songs. i do believe they are hip hop.

Gooberman · Post by **Gooberman** » Wed Oct 27, 2004 10:49 am

I dunno, I like that hip-hop song where they ripped off little orphan annie myself. Lazy ★■◆● needed to get a job.

RATM is the ★■◆●. And doesn't my generation get to claim Santana by now?

El Ka Bong · Post by **El Ka Bong** » Wed Oct 27, 2004 11:50 am

... had to choke on the saying: "hip Hop Artists" ... And I had to rant..

Can we really use that word to describe anything about Hip Hop ? 95% of that Rap and Hip Hop stuff is Cheesey, mass produced, canned, I-Can't-understand-wtf-they're- even-saying, CRAP ! Who dares call it "Music" .. ?!

Is an Artist realy just being a cut and paste Band in a Box user, who can't sing worth sheet, or play an instrument worth sheet, or even perform without a prerecorded synch' track ?! Most Rap "artists" don't even know how to perform with just a live Band on stage !

But to show that there is talent in that genre please check this link, and sample some of the tunes:

http://www.kiakadiri.com/music.html

I should point out Kia is Canadian talent. She plays live with a large band, and is mind blowingly nimble with words. There's no "motherFukcer" this and "MoutherFuxer" that in Kia's music

IMO so much Rap-Crap is derived from US based record companies and US-based producers who are simply mass marketing the I can rhyme-with attitude, Rap "poetry" that also passes for "talent" ...

Now if only those lip-synching, click-track "Live" performing Rap "artisits" pulled an Ashley Simpson when they're on Satuday Night Live, we'd finally be able to throw them all into the category of Milli Vanilli Wanna be's .. !

ok, Rant over, .. just check out www.kiakadiri.com !

MD-2389 · Post by **MD-2389** » Wed Oct 27, 2004 2:26 pm

Avder wrote:Hip hop needs to DIE.

Same for country and rap....ugh, I can't believe people call that ★■◆● music!

Will Robinson · Post by **Will Robinson** » Wed Oct 27, 2004 2:33 pm

Gooberman wrote:And doesn't my generation get to claim Santana by now?

No. Silly youngster

Will Robinson · Post by **Will Robinson** » Wed Oct 27, 2004 2:42 pm

TheCops wrote:from my perspective as a "songwriter" the last decade has been perty much "human waste on a piece of cardboard".

such as life, eh?

Not pop but...
for a modern day songwriter with old school talent try Kevin Gordon
Keith Richards describes him as ". . . fooking bloody William Shakespeare "

AceCombat · Post by **AceCombat** » Wed Oct 27, 2004 3:46 pm

roid wrote:were Rage Against The Machine hip hop?

no they were more hard rock than hip hop.

**OFF TOPIC** has anyone heard KoRn's Remix of Pink Floyd, The Wall ! VERY NICE!!