Full HUDs: Cheating or Not?

Suncho · Post by **Suncho** » Sun Nov 07, 2004 10:30 pm

There's a bug in D3 where the full HUDs option gets switched off if you join a server that doesn't have full HUDs and go back to the one that does.

Most people don't remember to turn them back on and newbies probably don't even know about it at all. Because if this bug, I think full HUDs is cheating.

I'm morally against it because it gives experienced players an unfair advantage over newbies.

Krom · Post by **Krom** » Sun Nov 07, 2004 10:32 pm

Only newbies use full huds.

Suncho · Post by **Suncho** » Sun Nov 07, 2004 10:36 pm

Newbies who know how to work around the bug. Fresh newbies have no knowledge of this.

Sirius · Post by **Sirius** » Sun Nov 07, 2004 10:44 pm

How is using a full HUD an advantage?

BAAL · Post by **BAAL** » Sun Nov 07, 2004 10:49 pm

makes it easier to pick on the weaker players for quicker kills.....easy to analyse where the threats are. That being said...full huds is an option in this game and as such have a right to be there.

snoopy · Post by **snoopy** » Sun Nov 07, 2004 11:07 pm

HUD's suck- anyone who is half observant doesn't need them to know in about 2 seconds who they are flying against.

Krom · Post by **Krom** » Sun Nov 07, 2004 11:24 pm

Suncho wrote:Newbies who know how to work around the bug. Fresh newbies have no knowledge of this.

Irrelevant. I can just as easly fly with a pilot that has only a . for a name which is almost invisible. People who use full huds to see their targets are too weak to exploit it as an advantage and can easly have it turned against them. The difference wont more then one kill in a thousand anyway.

I never bother switching to full huds anymore, few players stand out enough to be noticed, everyone else is just free shield orbs waiting to spew. People who need the hud to help them spot someone are already at a huge disadvantage to me. In any ordnary level there is no advantage someone could gain over me with full huds that I could not cancle with plain old brute force.

If I am just plain better then someone else, it doesnt matter if my ship shines neon green with massive red arrows pointing to it at all times, I will still beat them. Anyone with the skills to play the game will already know the same is true for themselves.

kurupt · Post by **kurupt** » Sun Nov 07, 2004 11:42 pm

i didnt even know about this, i never use huds. but i dont think at this stage in d3's life it really matters.

Hattrick · Post by **Hattrick** » Mon Nov 08, 2004 12:30 am

Personally I don't use Huds at all.
But cheating?? No.
Unfair to newbies?? No.

This falls under the rtfm catagory.

I learned of huds by reading about the f6 function in the descent 3 manual. Don't really see why others can't do the same. Unless of course reading isn't taught in school these days.

as far as the bug goes. It becomes VERY apparent to anyone that plays alot with full Huds turned on.

Suncho · Post by **Suncho** » Mon Nov 08, 2004 1:14 am

BAAL wrote:makes it easier to pick on the weaker players for quicker kills.....easy to analyse where the threats are. That being said...full huds is an option in this game and as such have a right to be there.

So is the Omega Cannon. Yet both are bugged and both can be disabled by the server op.

Top Gun · Post by **Top Gun** » Mon Nov 08, 2004 1:18 am

I will usually turn full HUDs on if available, if for no other reason than to get some clue at all as to where I'm being killed from. If that makes me a newbie, so be it.

I'm not really skilled enough for a full HUD to have any impact on my gameplay; plus, since few if any servers allow it, I usually forget to even check if it's an option when I enter a server. Besides, as has been stated above, it's a legitimate feature in D3, for better or worse.

Edit: For any new D3 player, will full HUDs really make that much of a difference? Sure, they'll be able to see other targets better, but they still won't be able to hit them on a consistent basis. When they do get to the point that they realize how to turn them off/on, they'll probably have less of a use for them anyway.

Duper · Post by **Duper** » Mon Nov 08, 2004 1:34 am

Quite frankly, newbs can use all the help they can get when facing a D3 vet.

A small advantage against a seasoned player is nothing to worry about.

Clayman · Post by **Clayman** » Mon Nov 08, 2004 2:19 pm

Most of the time I forget to turn on HUDs. When I use them it's primarily to tell at at glance what team mates are nearby for strategy purposes. They don't really have much of an impact on aim.

Deadmeat · Post by **Deadmeat** » Mon Nov 08, 2004 4:45 pm

I'll turn on full HUD's when playing with my team mainly because I want to know who everyone is. After a while I usually turn them off. As far as being a stratigic advantage, I don't really see any. Oftentimes they can be a distraction. Like when you're trying to MD someone at the other end of Halcyon, that name can throw you off. Far better to aim for that little ship blob off in the distance.

And, I'll go along with Top Gun. If using them makes it more comfortable for the newbie who's trying to learn the game, that's just fine. And I also agree with BAAL. I don't see it as a cheat.

Stryker · Post by **Stryker** » Mon Nov 08, 2004 5:06 pm

I use HUDs because the allow you to see through pass-through but opaque walls. Can't tell you how many kills I've gotten in hyperspace by MDing people through that purple barrier by seeing their HUD name. It's also very helpful for dark corners. If someone's hiding in the dark and I have HUD names on they won't last long. Course the only people who stay still for .2 seconds at a time in D3 are the newbies, which I make a point not to pick on when possible, so...

Team HUDs are definitely useful. You can tell whether that phoenix covering your tailpipe is kal-el or a weaker player, so you know whether to hide or keep juking your opponents because you know they're gonna die in a very short period of time.

That said, I rarely use HUDs anymore unless in hyperspace (/me waits impatiently for HS3).

Mr. Perfect · Post by **Mr. Perfect** » Mon Nov 08, 2004 5:28 pm

WTF are we talking about here, the actual HUD or HUD Names? HUD Names, right? I see no problem with those. They're used in most games, and I like to know who's who.

Spaceboy · Post by **Spaceboy** » Mon Nov 08, 2004 5:44 pm

knowing whos who is great. you don't need a hud to figure out who someone is... cause half the players in here use about 34753457934759375983758738957 different aliases...

Grendel · Post by **Grendel** » Mon Nov 08, 2004 6:19 pm

Deadmeat wrote:As far as being a stratigic advantage, I don't really see any.

Well, plus what Stryer said, it makes someone at the other end of the level very visible to you.. THN's are usefull, FHN's are cheap -- IMVHO.

Unix · Post by **Unix** » Mon Nov 08, 2004 6:25 pm

Deadmeat wrote:THN's are usefull, FHN's are cheap -- IMVHO.

agree

Sirius · Post by **Sirius** » Mon Nov 08, 2004 10:41 pm

What difference does it make? Half of D3 is cheap - you're just fighting a losing battle trying to fix it...

Suncho · Post by **Suncho** » Mon Nov 08, 2004 10:54 pm

Duper wrote:Quite frankly, newbs can use all the help they can get when facing a D3 vet.

A small advantage against a seasoned player is nothing to worry about.

But Full HUDs is a big advantage that seasoned players have over newbies.

Think about it. If I turned full HUDs on I'd be able to distinguish between who I'm fighting and whether they're a newbie or not. If I know I'm fighting a newbie I can dispatch with him quickly.

Krom · Post by **Krom** » Mon Nov 08, 2004 11:10 pm

Suncho wrote:
Duper wrote:Quite frankly, newbs can use all the help they can get when facing a D3 vet.

A small advantage against a seasoned player is nothing to worry about.
But Full HUDs is a big advantage that seasoned players have over newbies.

Think about it. If I turned full HUDs on I'd be able to distinguish between who I'm fighting and whether they're a newbie or not. If I know I'm fighting a newbie I can dispatch with him quickly.

I donâ??t need huds to tell me I am fighting a newbie or an ace, I can tell by how they fly and I know FAST, even when there are many targets. The time it takes your brain to read the HUD is about how long it takes me to know what level of pilots I am fighting. Anyone can learn how to do it with experience, you will just know.

Duper · Post by **Duper** » Mon Nov 08, 2004 11:35 pm

Very True Krom. Inversely, I KNOW when I'm about to be owned.

AsI don't play much anymore I pretty much fly like a newb .. never did play much D3, didn't like the maps at the onset.. anyways. That being said, Spotting guys that have real skill is no difficult feat. It only takes a couple passes to realize you're outclassed.

You have the option then, take your beating and try to learn or run like hell.

I need to read back thru all this as I still don't understand what the full hud thing is. Doesn't really matter to me anyways. I use text Hud if any to save frames. A habit from my Voodoo 3 days. That, and the graphic hud gets in the way.

Testiculese · Post by **Testiculese** » Tue Nov 09, 2004 12:05 am

Wrong HUD, Duper, we mean the one that highlights each ship with the pilot's alias over the ship.

I use HUDs in team ladders when there are more than one kind of each ship and I want immediate distinction between who's who. Then I know which feeni is the main capper and which one is support and to point to the relevant secondaries (as I always do D in team games) or give spew.

Full HUDs are handy to see whether the enemy ship that went by is the main flag capper or not, but that's really it. I don't see how anyone would come to a conclusion that it would determine the quality of a pilot...

Duper · Post by **Duper** » Tue Nov 09, 2004 1:06 am

Thanks Test.

Ok then.. let me start again.

Bah. who cares. ..well obviously you do Suncho. Really tho, I enjoy seeing who I'm shooting at.

See through walls??!! dude ... that's your card not the game. Most likely bad drivers. InHalo with my ATI I can see light textures through some walls. But that's it.

And what's in a name anyways. OMG don't you remember Bettina's post a short while back??? some of you guys have a bazillion handles. Sheesh. So WHY worry about if you can see the name or not. I could really care less about winning. I play to have fun. That is why I haven't joined a clan. Extreme compitiion is not my thing. I get online to relax, not to make my sphinter pucker.

Suncho · Post by **Suncho** » Tue Nov 09, 2004 2:32 am

Testiculese wrote:Full HUDs are handy to see whether the enemy ship that went by is the main flag capper or not, but that's really it. I don't see how anyone would come to a conclusion that it would determine the quality of a pilot...

You determine the quality of a pilot. If you've previously determined the quality of a pilot, you don't need to do it again if you know it's the same pilot.

WarAdvocat · Post by **WarAdvocat** » Tue Nov 09, 2004 7:28 am

Huds make a tiny difference, but you're making a mountain out of a molehill.

Testiculese · Post by **Testiculese** » Tue Nov 09, 2004 4:35 pm

I always assume the pilot I just came up against is you, and fight accordingly. The amount of time said pilot lasts depends on how correct I am.

Mobius · Post by **Mobius** » Tue Nov 09, 2004 4:53 pm

I always use Full HUD names when available. This means Campers and hiders are easily viewable. I always assume other people can see my HUD name too.

I think the pilot name "." is therefore most advantageous - and I have seen a few guys with names like "-". "." and "|". This is a pure tactic to reduce the visibility of the HUD names.

No - it's not a cheat.

HUD names are worth their weight in gold to low-resolution players, and to anyone who hates hiders and campers (I do!).

Krom · Post by **Krom** » Tue Nov 09, 2004 5:17 pm

In anarchy I can spot the colors on the side of the ship as clearly as you could read the hud names, I rapidly memorize who is who via the color. I've learned rather well to spot a ship via its colors after playing team anarchy in anarchy a few times.

Testiculese · Post by **Testiculese** » Tue Nov 09, 2004 5:58 pm

Full HUD is available in regular anarchy?

Duper · Post by **Duper** » Tue Nov 09, 2004 6:09 pm

yes
most admins disable it.

Grendel · Post by **Grendel** » Tue Nov 09, 2004 7:05 pm

Mobius wrote:HUD names are worth their weight in gold to low-resolution players, and to anyone who hates hiders and campers (I do!).

I hate them to but it's part of the game -- eat it or leave

I always set HN's to team and disable bright players.

Coolcat · Post by **Coolcat** » Tue Nov 09, 2004 11:27 pm

Can't say i'd care..unless its entropy. Compleatly breaks the game type.

If people wanna exploit a d3 option to pick on weaker players...*shrug* those types of players always leave after getting owned anyway.

Testiculese · Post by **Testiculese** » Tue Nov 09, 2004 11:29 pm

Hmph, imagine that. I have a hard enough time remembering it's available in TA..

I haven't used it since...I was in WP.

TheCops · Post by **TheCops** » Wed Nov 10, 2004 6:33 am

your girl gave me the greatest HUD ever... i'm telling you because i feel kinda guilty about it.

Suncho · Post by **Suncho** » Wed Nov 10, 2004 6:35 am

Krom wrote:In anarchy I can spot the colors on the side of the ship as clearly as you could read the hud names, I rapidly memorize who is who via the color.

Same here. But the advantage comes in team games... for example Veins CTF.

Spaceboy · Post by **Spaceboy** » Thu Nov 11, 2004 11:50 am

theres nothing wrong with huds. it doesnt give anyone an advantage, because everyone can do it. if you want to hide, thats your problem. if you only stand up to newbs and not to other people better than you, thats also your problem... I personally think team hud is the best setting...

Top Wop · Post by **Top Wop** » Thu Nov 11, 2004 12:15 pm

Suncho, its a game. Let it go. If you think that it is "morally wrong" then you are screwed up.

Zer0Cool · Post by **Zer0Cool** » Thu Nov 11, 2004 2:42 pm

umm i'm confused, seeing how pxo went down, and there are not "pxo stats" people really don't have areason to stat pad anymore. So i really don't see a valid point to all this bickering?

Full HUDs: Cheating or Not?

Is using Full HUDs cheating?

Full HUDs: Cheating or Not?