Computer for Christmas: Advice needed and appreciated.

sheepdog · Post by **sheepdog** » Thu Nov 18, 2004 8:00 am

My son Dan is a very awesome soon to be eleven year old guy. He's a gamer but because I am too, he doesn't get to use the PC much. Dan is very smart, but he's got a moderate learning disability and literacy stuff isn't his forte, so I'm also hoping that the laptop with a spellchecker, encyclopedia, dictionary etc. will also be a big help with school (especially next year when he starts middle school).

Space is an issue, so my first question is should I go to Dell and get a laptop through them or should I go the Best Buy route?

What's the life on laptops? Are we expecting big technological advances in them soon? Should I go for less now, with the idea of spending more and getting a better one for him when he gets to high school?

I really appreciate any advice folks might feel like giving.

woodchip · Post by **woodchip** » Thu Nov 18, 2004 8:13 am

So you are looking for a laptop that will handle games?
Or are you more interested in a comp. that will be used for education. I suspect a gaming laptop will set you back a lot more than say, buying a used laptop for the school work and a seperate P.C. for gaming.
Toshiba laptops I heard were pretty rugged.
Anyway I'm sure others more familiar with laptops will tender their opinions.

sheepdog · Post by **sheepdog** » Thu Nov 18, 2004 8:28 am

Thanks so much for replying Woodchip.

Well, it doesn't need to be super rugged because I'm not planning to let him lug it around a lot.

I'm embarrassed to say that I don't have enough technological savvy to know if there is a middle ground. He's not going to be doing a lot of online gaming, probably no online gaming for a couple of years. Again, that might be more of an option in High School.

If I bought an external hard drive for storage would that be helpful?

I think I want a good gaming machine without going for kickass. I'm thinking of NeverWinter Nights or Halo Single Player as an example of a game he might use it for but I suppose I don't know what the younguns are playing these days. I'm disappointed that the Tribes V single player didn't turn out to be what was initially planned.

Does that help?

PS. That's interesting that a PC and used laptop could be cheaper! I am truly ignorant! Still I'm thinking that with space being at a premium around here that if the price differential wasn't enormous I would go for a decent gaming laptop.

Mr. Perfect · Post by **Mr. Perfect** » Thu Nov 18, 2004 9:12 am

You should try to find out what games he's looking to play on it, since laptops usually have considerably lower gaming power then a desktop. Mobile versions of graphics cards just don't pack the same punch.

If he won't actually be transportign the laptop, but using it as a full time desktop, consider one of the small form factor PCs like Shuttle makes. They're about the size of a shoebox, and since they use many of the same parts as standard desktops, you can get some decent gaming performance out of them. They're also considerably easier to upgrade then a laptop.

sheepdog · Post by **sheepdog** » Thu Nov 18, 2004 10:00 am

Small form factor PC's?

Okay off to Google. Thanks!

sheepdog · Post by **sheepdog** » Thu Nov 18, 2004 10:06 am

http://www.alienware.com/intro_pages/area-51_5300.aspx

I haven't looked at the price yet, but is this what you are talking about Mr. Perfect. Would AlienWare be a good vendor for me? Again, I aplogize for my complete ignorance?

Tetrad · Post by **Tetrad** » Thu Nov 18, 2004 10:13 am

When you say space is an issue, what do you mean, exactly? Physical size, hard disk space, monitor size, what?

Also, don't buy Alienware. They're drastically overpriced.

Edit: moving to Tech forum.

sheepdog · Post by **sheepdog** » Thu Nov 18, 2004 10:30 am

Physical size. The small factor puter seems like a good idea. Where should I shop. Should I look at Dell?

The tech forum hates me. Will you move me back if nobody replies to me here?

sheepdog · Post by **sheepdog** » Thu Nov 18, 2004 12:00 pm

Okay. I really like the idea of these small factor pcs. Thanks Woodchip and Mr. Perfect

Starting a new thread on the small factors.

Pugwash · Post by **Pugwash** » Thu Nov 18, 2004 2:17 pm

Dictation programs such as via voice http://www.scansoft.com/viavoice/ or dragon naturally speaking http://www.scansoft.com/naturallyspeaking/ can help a child with dyslexia etc express themselves to their full potential. You may want to look into one of those. Training the program to recognize your kids voice is the hardest part, it involves reading passages to the machine. You can however pause the recording to prompt your child or feed them the line.

STRESSTEST · Post by **STRESSTEST** » Thu Nov 18, 2004 3:09 pm

Pugwash wrote:Dictation programs such as via voice http://www.scansoft.com/viavoice/ or dragon naturally speaking http://www.scansoft.com/naturallyspeaking/ can help a child with dyslexia etc express themselves to their full potential. You may want to look into one of those. Training the program to recognize your kids voice is the hardest part, it involves reading passages to the machine. You can however pause the recording to prompt your child or feed them the line.

getting all this Warlock?
<3

sheepdog · Post by **sheepdog** » Thu Nov 18, 2004 3:42 pm

Thanks Pugwash, I'll check that out. And thank you Stress!

How does this look? Am I going overboard on this? I don't see how I can avoid the flat screen, but are the vid card and the sound card ridiculous for single player?

Dimension 4700

SYSTEM COMPONENTS TOTAL: $1,382.00
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dimension 4700 Qty 1
PentiumÂ® 4 Processor 540 with HT Technology (3.20GHz, 800 FSB), MicrosoftÂ® WindowsÂ® XP Home Edition Unit Price $1,382.00
Catalog Number: 29

Dell Dimension 4700 Series PentiumÂ® 4 Processor 540 with HT Technology (3.20GHz, 800 FSB) CP328H [221-5229]

Operating System MicrosoftÂ® WindowsÂ® XP Home Edition WHXP [412-0721][412-0688][463-2282][420-4834][420-4927] 11

Memory 512MB Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM at 400MHz (2x256M) 512M4 [311-3621] 3

Keyboard Dell QuietkeyÂ® Keyboard QK [310-1582] 4

Monitor 17 in E173FP Flat Panel Display E173FP [320-4135] 5

Video Cards 128MB PCI Expressâ?¢ x16 (DVI/VGA/TV-out)
ATI Radeonâ?¢ X300 SE X300SE [320-3873] 6

Hard Drive 160GB Serial ATA Hard Drive (7200RPM) 160S [341-0884] 8

Floppy Drive and Additional Storage Devices No Floppy Drive Included NFD [340-8688] 10

Mouse Dell 2-button scroll mouse SM [310-1871] 12

Network Interface Integrated IntelÂ® PRO 10/100

Ethernet IN [430-0412] 13

Modem 56K PCI Data Fax Modem DFAX [313-2279] 14

Document Management AdobeÂ® AcrobatÂ® Reader 6.0 AAREAD [412-0705] 15

CD or DVD Drive Single Drive: FREE UPGRADE! 48x CD-RW / DVD-ROM Combo Drive 48COMBP [463-1546][420-4919] 16

Sound Card Sound BlasterÂ® Live! 24-bit ADVANCED HDâ?¢

Audio SB1024 [313-2431][313-6010] 17

Speakers Dell A215 Speakers ADA215 [313-1874] 18

Productivity Software WordPerfectÂ®, Powerful Word Processing CORELM [412-0701] 22
Security Software No Security Subscription NS2 [412-0732] 25
Digital Music Dell Jukebox - easy-to-use music player and CD burning software MMBASE [412-0691] 27
Digital Photography Paint Shopâ?¢ ProÂ® Trial plus Photo Albumâ?¢ Starter Edition DPS [412-0521] 28
Limited Warranty, Services and Support Options 2Yr Ltd Warranty, 2Yr At-Home Service, and 2Yr Technical Support S222OS [950-1261][950-3338][950-1260][412-0360][960-2800][900-8241] 29
Internet Access Services 6 Months of America Online Membership Included AOLDHS [412-0585][412-0625][420-3224][412-0687] 37
Dell Media Experience Dell Media Experience DMX [412-0660] 115

Mobius · Post by **Mobius** » Thu Nov 18, 2004 5:52 pm

Not wanting to be obvious, but buying your son an actual dictionary might be a good idea.

I'm ALWAYS sceptical of diagnoses which say "ADHD" (ADD) or "Learning Disability" - as I'm sure 80% of diagnoses are simply WRONG. Compounding the problem by medicating ADHD kids with speed is a stupid and silly option: the treatment is for the people AROUND the sufferer, not for the victim!

I know several people with dailysex - err I mean dyslexia

(I like that anagram!) and they have ALL managed to cope pretty well with their affliction. One of them even has a Ph.D.

sheepdog · Post by **sheepdog** » Thu Nov 18, 2004 7:33 pm

I have dictionaries. Thanks Mobius.

Fusion · Post by **Fusion** » Fri Nov 19, 2004 12:03 am

Game Commander might be a direction to go for the Dyslexia (or whatever physical disabilities the son has) and any gaming issues. Just an idea.

Fus

woodchip · Post by **woodchip** » Fri Nov 19, 2004 8:20 am

See Margo...you're not hated here after all.

As to the Dell, most here would say no only because we put togeather our own systems with the ability to swap out parts for upgrading. Dell has, as I understand it, propriatary parts that make it hard to do so (correct me if I am wrong on this). On the other hand if you do not want to monkey around with the innards, then a bundled system may be best for you.
Have you looked at any of the other systems like Gateway, HP etc?

sheepdog · Post by **sheepdog** » Fri Nov 19, 2004 9:15 am

He He. My current puter is Gateway. I assumed that Dell and Gateway were identical in the way they swapped out parts.

Okay. Today I'm going to do a build on Gateway. I'll post it soon. This is exactly the kind of advice I hoped for when I posted here.* Thanks Woodchip. I really appreciate it.

*In addition to my dear long suffering hubby, you guys (your minds, personalites and sense of humor) are the models I keep in mind for what I hope for my son's future. <----statement prolly makes no sense but *I* know what I mean.

Pugwash · Post by **Pugwash** » Fri Nov 19, 2004 1:10 pm

sheepdog wrote:you guys (your minds, personalites and sense of humor) are the models I keep in mind for what I hope for my son's future.

you mean as in the "how not too" kinda way right?

sheepdog · Post by **sheepdog** » Fri Nov 19, 2004 1:54 pm

I mean I'm hoping you'll adopt him when he's around 13 and spare me the anguish of adolescence!

I mean you guys are by and large GREAT and keeping you in mind makes parenting my son a little more like driving a winding road to a given destination and a little less like driving aimlessly across the saltflats at night!

I'll bet that helped!

woodchip · Post by **woodchip** » Fri Nov 19, 2004 4:52 pm

sheepdog wrote:I mean I'm hoping you'll adopt him when he's around 13 and spare me the anguish of adolescence!

We adopted Hagen Daz and look how he turned out...so ya, give the lad to us

MD-2389 · Post by **MD-2389** » Sat Nov 20, 2004 12:48 am

woodchip wrote:As to the Dell, most here would say no only because we put togeather our own systems with the ability to swap out parts for upgrading.

Speaking as someone that has worked on recent Dell systems, they're not as propreitary as they (re: all manufacters in general seeing as they all use the same parts) used to be. Most of them use factory parts that people like you and I can obtain off of the internet with ease. The only real proprietary part I know of for sure is the way they're wired the motherboard power cable. They've done it in such a way that if you installed a third-party motherboard, it would fry it the second you hit the power button. (dirty little bastards aren't they?) I remember another company going this route too, but I don't recall which one. I think it was Gateway, but don't quote me on it. Some of the cases use a proprietary form factor as well, meaning the holes you'd use to mount a third-party motherboard wouldn't line up with those drilled into the mounting tray in the case. (HP, and Compaq, are a huge culpruit in this, with their "small form-factor" systems.)

woodchip · Post by **woodchip** » Sat Nov 20, 2004 8:54 am

So MD, these manufacturers clearly label this so the unsuspecting upgrader will know what not to do? Better yet the all that you said is clearly marked on the box so one knows this prior to buying?

No? Why am I not surprised.

Duper · Post by **Duper** » Sat Nov 20, 2004 12:00 pm

parts maybe, but the driver situation is horrid. I won't touch a box with a "refresh disk". If there isn't a genuine OS disk, I won't buy it.

It's going to take a while before I'd consider buying a Dell for gaming.

Don't EVEN consider an "E-Machine" O_o .. that's like trying trying to eat Government Cheese.

sheepdog · Post by **sheepdog** » Sat Nov 20, 2004 12:29 pm

Here's a recommendation I got from a thoughtful person on ExtremeTech:

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp ... pe=product

What do you guys think?

Mr. Perfect · Post by **Mr. Perfect** » Sat Nov 20, 2004 3:12 pm

Well, the thing I don't like about it is it's got an integrated video chip. Integrated graphics just don't have the power for gaming. It does have an AGP slot though, so you could buy a midrange real video card for about $150-$200.

Sirius · Post by **Sirius** » Sat Nov 20, 2004 4:26 pm

The Dell system you mentioned earlier isn't too bad price-wise for what it has, but it's also simply overkill if it isn't going to be used much for gaming. On the other hand, it will still be workable in two or three years, quite easily.

The sound card isn't what I would call excessive - SB Lives are relatively inexpensive these days anyway - but a Radeon X300 wouldn't be too bad if you were trying to play Doom 3. I don't think that's the intention.

I'd agree with Mr. Perfect - although integrated graphics won't be horribly slow these days on older games - NWN, Quake 3 and similar should be quite playable - if you want anything more recent getting a mid-range video card (which are still reasonably cheap) installed would be recommendable on that system. Apart from that, it looks like it has plenty of power. You don't really need a sound card these days unless you're into power gaming.

suicide eddie · Post by **suicide eddie** » Sat Nov 20, 2004 5:33 pm

how about something like this
http://msicomputer.co.uk/products.aspx? ... &cat_id=81
or
http://us.shuttle.com/index.asp
and either buy complete or build from barebones

MD-2389 · Post by **MD-2389** » Sat Nov 20, 2004 6:07 pm

woodchip wrote:So MD, these manufacturers clearly label this so the unsuspecting upgrader will know what not to do? Better yet the all that you said is clearly marked on the box so one knows this prior to buying?

No? Why am I not surprised.

No, they don't. Seeing as 99% of their customer base wouldn't even know how to build their own computer, I doubt that would even occur to them. However, I'm still not impressed with their CPU heatsink retention clip. One good thump and you've turned your computer into a very expensive doorstop.

That being said, suicide eddie you might want to check this out:

click me The prices may have changed slightly, but you get the idea. That system will keep him happy for years to come.

woodchip · Post by **woodchip** » Sat Nov 20, 2004 9:50 pm

Margo, MD's "click me" link brings up a interesting aside. Have you looked into purchasing from a computor store that gives discount for people with student cards such as may be found around university campii?

sheepdog · Post by **sheepdog** » Sun Nov 21, 2004 9:48 am

Wow guys! Thank You!

I am overwhelmed by these responses. Sorry so late to reply, but I got obsessed with politics in the E & C forum. I'm a classic simple-minded forum reader. I just click the first one I come to and start writing. Also, my socialite 9 year old daughter kept me busy with a two birthday party weekend!

Okay. Gotta look at these links and I'll be back!

Woody, NH is so poor financially that I can't get special ed services for Dan even though a well-known competent psycholgist evaluate him as LD. Because I work with him at home, he's not failing gradewise. Still I appreciate the suggestion and I'll check. In NH they don't do anything extra for kids technolgy-wise. OTOH Andover, MA (high income high tax base techie town) which is 10 miles away gives every 5th grader a laptop at school.

woodchip · Post by **woodchip** » Sun Nov 21, 2004 9:21 pm

So you are saying your son has no student I.D.? Student discounts have nothing to do with the states financial status. Private concerns that allow student discounts are even on the net (type in: "student discount computor stores" in google). If your son is homeschooled, how about the other kids? Do they have a student I.D.? A friend perhaps.?

sheepdog · Post by **sheepdog** » Wed Nov 24, 2004 12:00 pm

Ok sorry I missed this Woodchip. I didn't understand da bigger concept of student ID. He's in 5th grade. I don't think he has one like the college kind, but I could look amongst my relatives for one to "borrow."

Just for some closure and an update. I came very close to going with the small form factor from Compaq. My Best Buy has emachine lcd monitors for around $267 (I think). I was going out to get it today, and kind of hinted around with Dan that a laptop might be out and a small puter in. Well, we ended up discussing the fact that this would be pretty much it (no transformers or megazords or Batcaves), if he got a 'puter. Well you should have seen the long face!

So... seeing as how I think of nice computers as just one down from holy relics, I'm like "furgit about it dood"! I just can't see buying him a computer until he is mature enough to appreciate it.

So now I'm thinking a new television for the whole family from "Santa." That's the gift that my hard working husband would get the most fun out of... So do I ask peeps about their TV preferences here or in the Cafe? I'm going with the Cafe and see how it goes...

Anyway, I saved all this advice in my Dan's computer folder to get me started when I see that the dang kid is worthy, and a big thank you to all you guys. Specially Woodchip and Mr. Perfect

Mr. Perfect · Post by **Mr. Perfect** » Wed Nov 24, 2004 9:32 pm

No problem. The SFF are realy quite interesting, and I like to help.

MD-2389 · Post by **MD-2389** » Thu Nov 25, 2004 1:20 am

Go right ahead and ask in the Cafe if you want.

woodchip · Post by **woodchip** » Thu Nov 25, 2004 9:14 pm

Margo, you might want to peruse this thread:

phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=4213