Giambi and Steroids

Beowulf · Post by **Beowulf** » Thu Dec 02, 2004 11:05 pm

Well Jason Giambi has admitted to using steroids. Barry Bonds's name again thrown into the mix. So now what? Can we honestly watch baseball anymore knowing that there are superstars that are looked up to by millions of kids and wanna-be ball players who are cheating? Who are good only because they take steroids?

What now for baseball?

Instig8 · Post by **Instig8** » Thu Dec 02, 2004 11:40 pm

We all knew they were taking them whoohaa pills/shots, at least most of us knew. It's not right, imho. They should be banned for life. Barry, as great as he is, aught to go to hell... unless we allow all players to use performance-enhancing drugs (that might un-enhance their lifespan). Oh well.

It's hard to watch any professional sport now-a-days. Are they juiced up??? Are they clean??? Who knows!

I say, fight. The more fights there are, the more I will watch. BoouuuHaaaaaaaaaaa!... thank you.

Avder · Post by **Avder** » Thu Dec 02, 2004 11:52 pm

Ban Giambi. Ban Barry. Strip McGuire of his home run records. Institute mandatory monthly drug/steroid testing of ALL players and ban anyone who doesnt pass.

Tyranny · Post by **Tyranny** » Fri Dec 03, 2004 1:57 am

Look up some of these guy's stats through their first half decade in the game sometime. They weren't exactly bad ballplayers before they were using steriods. All of them have statistically put up huge homerun totals throughout their careers. Other then Giambi, Bonds and Sheffield have been playing since the late 80s.

Sheffield's numbers are the only ones that look out of place, with 30+ homers in 5 of the last 6 seasons and before that he had only hit 30+ homers two other times in his first 11 seasons. He's been in the major leagues 17 years though. Bonds has been in the major leagues for 19. If anything the steroids have kept them a little younger it seems.

All the people that whine about how much farther they're hitting the ball and how many homeruns they're hitting are missing several other things.

Statistically EVERYONE is hitting more homeruns. The baseballs they're using aren't quite right, though they'll deny that. It's not just the big power hitters mashing everything. Even the little guys are hitting some monster shots. So is it any wonder that the power hitters, the ones actually paid to hit the long ball, crush them to parts unseen?

They already could hit the ball out of the ballparks long before they ever started using steriods. Then you add on top of that the ballparks are being built with smaller dimensions and then can you tell me with a straight face that steroids are making these players better?

Do I think this is bad for the game? Yes, I certainly do, but I think in the long run it doesn't matter as much as people are making it seem. Anyways, see This Post for more of my opinion on the matter. Tis the same old thing...

Top Gun · Post by **Top Gun** » Fri Dec 03, 2004 8:55 am

I'll agree with you, Tyranny. Yes, this is bad, but it isn't the doomsday that some people are making it out to be. As for Bonds, he's been a monster hitter for a very, very long time; steroids may be able to give you a small boost, but they can't make a career. They also can't give you one of the most natural swings the game has ever seen. I, for one, am willing to trust Bonds when he says he did not know he was taking steroids; I think that he's a class act. If/when he does break the record and get into Cooperstown, I don't think that any caveat or asterisk should be attached to his name.

Tyranny · Post by **Tyranny** » Fri Dec 03, 2004 5:35 pm

The rabbit hole goes far deeper then Bonds IMO. I don't believe he didn't know he was taking them though. He's too smart for that.

Zuruck · Post by **Zuruck** » Sat Dec 04, 2004 7:34 am

Yea, Bonds didn't know. Let's do some quick math, he starts taking these "items" and all the sudden, he's 40 lbs heavier of solid muscle, hitting 73 home runs when his next highest total was the mid 40s when he was a young strong player. At first it was "no, i dont take anything" now it's "well i didn't know they were steroids". Give us all a break, I really wish I could do that, " I really didn't know I was stealing a car officer, I have to plead ignorance"

Gooberman · Post by **Gooberman** » Sat Dec 04, 2004 8:00 am

"Taking steroids is just like pretending to be handicapped at the special Olympics." -Jimmy Vollmer (South Park)

woodchip · Post by **woodchip** » Sat Dec 04, 2004 8:06 am

The problem I have is how can you say these guys on steroids have honestly beat Babe Ruths or Hank Aarons home run records?

Pr0nAddict · Post by **Pr0nAddict** » Sat Dec 04, 2004 10:27 am

Gooberman wrote:"Taking steroids is just like pretending to be handicapped at the special Olympics." -Jimmy Vollmer (South Park)

Mr. Vollmer hit the nail on the head.

Ford Prefect · Post by **Ford Prefect** » Sat Dec 04, 2004 11:32 am

The use of "performance enhancing" drugs is pervasive in all parts of our lives. If we get an injury at work we would think nothing of following a course of steriod treatment to speed our recovery. We drink coffee to "perk " us up in the morning, if we hurt we take ibuprofin, if we have a cold we take a decongestant.
There is a philosophy that since steroids are availible to all that wish to use them there should be no ban on their use. A view supported by none other than Juan Antonio Samaranch, the head of the Olympic games. By removing the ban you would even the playing field, eliminating the advantage of athletes whose finacial backing or national status allows them to afford methods of disguising their use of enhancements.
Take a look at the defensive linemen of the NFL. Compare a list of positive attributes that a player in that position should posses and then compare that to list of the effects of anabolic steroid use. Now tell me that there is no steroid use in the NFL.
Perhaps it is time to face reality.

Gooberman · Post by **Gooberman** » Sat Dec 04, 2004 12:43 pm

I guess here is where I disagree Ford.

So long as it is illegal, you wont have the best and brightest minds in the world working to figure out the best way to engineer a super-human. There is an absolute ridiculous amount of money in pro-sports.

Can you imagine the chain reaction if you let them loose? Each team would compete to have their own drugs. Part of the game would become who has the best drugs. Who gets to make that "health vs safety" call for the player's dosage? I sure hope it isn't the coaches.

I can see Madden saying, "Well that lineman is on this new VX-30299, the other team just can't compete with their VX-30298"

Pro-sports is just so so so competitive, that I do not think this is am unrealistic slippery slope at all.

If you allow steroids into the game, then they will become a part of the game.

Ford Prefect · Post by **Ford Prefect** » Sat Dec 04, 2004 1:19 pm

Are steroids not a part of the game now?
Mark McGwire seems to have admited that he used steroids. Has he been banned for life? Banned at all? Is the excuse "I didn't know" acceptable? If it is, then steroid use is acceptable.
When football players are not tested in a meaningful manner then the use of steroids is being accepted de facto if not in regulations.
The U.S. does not fully particitpate in the Olympic anti-doping committee's testing regime. Testing is not complete, is often preceeded with a warning and failure to provide a sample is not punished. Big buisness is already controlling who is tagged a cheater and who avoids prosecution.

I would rather see a meaningful testing regime and permanent banning of violators but I don't see that ever happening with the amount of money that is involved.

Beowulf · Post by **Beowulf** » Sat Dec 04, 2004 2:52 pm

What ever happened to the best team winning? What ever happened to the best athletes and players winning? Since when is it the athlete with the most drugs wins? What kind of sport is that? That takes away any integrity pro sports have left.

TheCops · Post by **TheCops** » Sat Dec 04, 2004 5:19 pm

i watch sports when i'm bored... they are really over-rated. i mean if you ain't doing it with your own 2 hands you are just consuming like a blob of flatulent fat on the couch.

roids are the same as auto-tune and sequencing technology in the music bizness... making people with no sense of pitch or rhythm superstars.

you clowns buy it... this is what you get.

Tyranny · Post by **Tyranny** » Sat Dec 04, 2004 5:34 pm

woodchip wrote:The problem I have is how can you say these guys on steroids have honestly beat Babe Ruths or Hank Aarons home run records?

Because they have better hand/eye coordination. I keep saying, steroids don't make you put the bat on the ball. Hours upon hours of practice in the batting cages and against live pitching and years of experience do that.

Do you think the Babe could hit even 20 homers in a season against todays pitchers? I certainly don't. In the era of supposed 'watered' down pitching, he'd have a hard time catching up to anything other then maybe a low-mid 80s fastball. Aaron might have done a little bit better, but I don't think he'd even put up the numbers that he did in his career playing today.

It's a different era. The players are bigger, stronger and faster regardless of steroids. They throw the ball harder with more movement and they hit the ball farther with better contact and quicker swings. They're constantly fine tuning their bodies and their mechanics during the offseason and during Spring training when years ago guys would do nothing during the offseason and do all their training in the spring. Those days are long gone, guys are working out all the time, taking batting practice all the time, playing winter ball etc...

Steroids hasn't overshadowed what players like Bonds have done atleast in my mind. To use Z's post as an example, yes, he hit 73 homers in 2001. If you look at player stats during that season, virtually every player doubled their homerun total that year. RBI totals shot up as well. Then since that year homerun and RBI totals dropped, other then a few acceptions (A-Rod, Jim Thome in 2002), and have averaged out the last three seasons since.

In a sense I think it's a bit hypocritical for people to start jumping on the 'steroids have ruined the game' bandwagon. It's just fine for your home team's star players to club a bunch of homers but if guys like Bonds do it against your team it's "Thats not fair, he's using steroids"

Anyways, I think when this is said and done players whom you never even suspected of using steroids will be revealed for using them on teams you probably rooted for. It was fine when you didn't know about it wasn't it? Thats why in the long run this will be just another passing phase in sports.

Btw Z, don't be bitter. The Yankees have about 4 or 5 guys I could name that probably either use or have used steroids. The sad part is you still couldn't win a WS with those guys...bwuahaha

OMG, I kinda agree with thecops....wtf