Down the Rabbit Hole

woodchip · Post by **woodchip** » Sun Dec 05, 2004 8:52 am

While my mind was on idle I started to think of a hypothesis that states big bang events occur on a regular basis in space. Not our portion of universal space but beyond the confines of what we view as known space with all its billions of galaxies.
Some conjecture is new universes pop into existence similar to bubbles of methane gas rising to the surface of a pond. The pond of course being space.
So I started wondering where does the material come from for the big bang bubble to form. So here's my thoughts. We all know by now that black holes suck in material from surrounding space. Along with known material there is also the possibility that dark matter is being sucked in along with visible matter. While the conventional view is that all this accreted matter is becoming more and more condensed, I wonder if there is a threshold level where the matter is forced somewhere else. We all know that when the internal forces of a star dimishes to a certain point, the outer envelope collapses inward resulting in a explosion that then forms a red giant. Black holes never seem to explode. True we have quasars that emit extraordinary amounts of radiation, but the typical black hole just seems to get larger and larger...especially those that form in the center of galaxies.
So I am wondering if the possibility exists that as the black hole accumulates enough matter if somehow a force is created akin to sticking a finger in the side of a partially inflated balloon. You can create a bulge on the opposite exterior side of the balloon by pushing hard enough. The resultant bulge from the pressure of a black hole may be what the "bubbles" of big bang events are generated from.
Again the question is of what size a black hole may have to become to create a large enough "finger" of pressure to explode its (the black holes) accreted matter into another portion of space. The question also comes to mind...are there universes in space that make our universe seem small and puny in comparison? A universe where black hole events are the size of our universe that contain enough matter that when they burst enough matter is ejected to answer in some degree the question of where our universe came from. If my hypothesis has merit, it would answer the question of where the material came from to generate our big bang. My idea would also handles to some degree the law of conservation of energy.
I'll let those of you with the math and physics skills to offer conjecture on my theory.

Bet51987 · Post by **Bet51987** » Sun Dec 05, 2004 2:29 pm

All of the matter, both visible and dark, being pulled into a black hole, will stay in the black hole. No such blowout to another dimension takes place. Sometimes though, an "event ejection" will take place which is more like a cosmic burp, will eject matter, but even that ejection will be pulled back in.

Nobody knows what will happen to a black hole as time goes on or as we can see farther out but it makes me wonder, if this is how our known universe will eventually end. As all the fuel on all of the stars eventually burns up turning our universe into a cold dark place, the universe will be left with just dead matter...gravity.....and black holes.

Eventually still, black holes will pull in other black holes....and maybe even our entire universe will be pulled in by some giant black hole which will eventually have enough pressure and heat to create yet another big bang......

Just rambling along
Bettina

JMEaT · Post by **JMEaT** » Sun Dec 05, 2004 2:55 pm

Wow, when I sit around idle I think of what I might have for dinner or do tomarrow night. I guess I'm slacking off, eh?

Dedman · Post by **Dedman** » Sun Dec 05, 2004 5:00 pm

I think we just witnessed history. Chip just posted and didn't mention Democrats once.

They grow up so fast

woodchip · Post by **woodchip** » Sun Dec 05, 2004 5:32 pm

Bet, not into another dimension. The finger extrudes to another part of space while still in this dimension. Perhaps through another dimension?.

Jmeat, we've always knew you were a slacker...just too polite to say so.

Dedman, this is too conservative (as in conservation of energy) a topic for mere weenies to grasp.

Hate to think I was past my childhoodness.

Robo · Post by **Robo** » Sun Dec 05, 2004 5:55 pm

Black holes cannot explode but can 'evaporate' in a burst of so called Hawking Radiation. This is either in the case of a black hole with an ultra-short lifespan or a black hole that has reached its theoretical maximum capacity - if one exists at all.

My theory is that the matter sucked into a black hole is locked behind the event horizon and when it evaporates this is 'dropped' in another space and time free from our own universe.

It is now a universe in itself.

The incredible energy in the quantum vacuum surrounding this super-dense matter is dumped inside this new universe. The interior of this new universe contains now incredibly dense and hot gluons, and it is so dense that it is opaque. This would then expand like our own universe and once cooled would form atoms again.

In principle, I also know how to form a universe in a lab. But not in practice

I probably made no sense because I cant explain anything, but there you go.

Mobius · Post by **Mobius** » Sun Dec 05, 2004 8:29 pm

My specialist subject! (Or one of them).

Black Holes *DO* radiate energy from the borders of the Event Horizon. ALL information sucked into a black hole evntually comes out due to Hawking Radiation. Eventually is theoretical though, because the lifetimes of supermassive BH's exceed the heat-death of the universe in time-scale.

So-called "Quantum" BH's can theoretically exist, and were undoubtedly formed during the big bang - but these BH's had lifetimes measured in picoseconds. (It's theorised that the Large Hardon Collider may produce quantum BH's - but it seems unlikely given the small energies involved - it may not even be powerful enough by a factor of 100 to create the Higs Boson.)

There's nothing mysterious about what happens to the matter which ends up in a black hole: it's Neutronium, or a condensate of matter which exceeds the density of neutronium somehow - it doesn't leave our universe ever. You can calculate the mass of a BH simply by observing the size of it's event horizon.

There's very little you can ever actually KNOW about a BH though, only it's position in space, it's mass, the size of the Event Horizon (Directly relates to Mass) and it's angular Momentum (Rotation velocity).

What you say about other universes appearing in space "alongside" ours may be correct - but in effect they are different universes entirely, because the light cones from the various universes will never intersect due to the lifetime of the universes, and the distance between them.

Phoenix Red · Post by **Phoenix Red** » Sun Dec 05, 2004 10:06 pm

Mobius wrote:There's nothing mysterious about what happens to the matter which ends up in a black hole: it's Neutronium, or a condensate of matter which exceeds the density of neutronium somehow

I'm reasonably positive that statement is a horrifying oversimplification. At last check, neutron stars are neutronium, and needed to collapse to form black holes, or so I understand. I was also under the impression that black holes themselves (not counting event horizon) are single points and occupy no physical space.

Darkside Heartless · Post by **Darkside Heartless** » Sun Dec 05, 2004 11:02 pm

Another interesing fact about black holes:
If there were a black hole with all the mass of the known universe, it would have the consistency of a sponge and the tidal forces at the event horizon would be no stronger then a soft spring breeze.
I've also heard that black holes might only be theoretical objects.

Jon the Great · Post by **Jon the Great** » Sun Dec 05, 2004 11:14 pm

http://users.webtime.com.au/seashell/ps ... brane.html

Bet51987 · Post by **Bet51987** » Mon Dec 06, 2004 3:41 pm

Sorry, but "hawking radiation" only exists in quantum mechanics where strange rules apply. For now, the black hole is just that, pulling things in as large as entire planets and even suns themselves, and emitting very little radiation. Hawking himself admits that this is a theory, though one that he's pursuing. In the quantum world there are no rules, and anything goes.

One thing is for sure.....our Sun and all the stars are burning out and when there gone, our universe will be a dark place, close to absolute zero, and ruled by black holes for who knows how long. The only heat will be inside that hole.

One feeling I've always had, is that our universe came from the singularity of a monstrous black hole that had one major ejection and I think it's happening outside our universe as well.

Bettina

Bet51987 · Post by **Bet51987** » Mon Dec 06, 2004 4:13 pm

One more thing....and this is a very big stretch of my imagination....The fact is that there was a point in your life that you first became aware of your existance. It may have been first touch, sight, smell, whatever,......but you definately became aware of something around you. Unknowingly, you became aware that you were alive.

After your dead and gone, the arrow of time will continue on. Measured in our time, millions, trillions, another universe, or yet another after that, but eventually there will be another point in time that "you" or whatever you are, will again become aware.

Scientists say that space and time began at the big bang. I don't believe that at all. There was time before the big bang, there is time now, there will be time after our universe ends, and time yet will continue to pass waiting for another big bang, another death, and endless big bangs after that.
I believe the arrow of time always moves forward and is without end....and with that, plenty of chances for another you....and me.

Please don't laugh, this is what gives me hope existing in a void without a creator.

Bettina

Asrale · Post by **Asrale** » Mon Dec 06, 2004 7:02 pm

I thought this was going to be a thread about the massive Matrix DVD boxset...